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jeffb1722
03-25-2016, 03:40 PM
I reload 9mm on a Dillon 550 using a using a Lee 356-120-TC cast boolit. These boolits are sized and lubed to .358 and work great in my guns. My normal failure rate on my case gauge is around 10%. I am using once fired brass purchased off the Internet from various manufacturers, some I recognize, most I don't. I suspect some are European surplus. Since this is the first time reloading this brass, I am going through the process of determining which brands will pass through the case gauge and which won't. After making my first 100 rounds today, I noticed my failure rate on the case gauge went all the way up to about 50%. I cleaned out the bullet seating die and crimp die on the Dillon and they were very dirty. I was a mixture on lube and small brass specks. I tried run the defective bullets through the now clean seating and crimping die, it helped a little, but they would still not drop all the way into the case gauge. I next tried to tighten down the crimp die 1/2 turn and that did not help either. Some of the brass (Blazer, Win, Federal) that previously worked 100% of the time is now failing to pass the case gauge. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

C.F.Plinker
03-25-2016, 03:52 PM
Do they pass the plunk test with your barrels?

OS OK
03-25-2016, 03:57 PM
Size this brass and try it in the gage before flaring…If no failures there start looking at your sizing of the boolits at the .358" value. I think thats too fat, not sure though.
Most manuals give drawings of the loaded rounds and you can measure yours and determine if any part of them are too large in either diameter or length.
It is hard to tell much when the gage kicks them back without knowing if the hang up is in the front end or at the base.
If you seat and taper crimp in the same die you may be taking the flair out too soon before the round is almost fully seated. Then you would be pushing a small amount of lead ahead of the case mouth resulting in a slight bulge there. Measure, measure, measure and compare to drawing.

David2011
03-25-2016, 04:00 PM
Jeff,

Welcome to CastBoolits! When loading for autoloaders the taper crimp die should be adjusted to give the diameter of the mouth as specified in the reloading manual. It is save to assume that there is a bit of burr on the mouth so I take the measurement immediately, like .005" or so, below the actual mouth of the case. The printer lower case letter "L" in a novel is about .010" wide for comparison. Try adjusting your crimp die using your calipers and let us know the result.

After adjusting the die pull a boolit or two and measure the diameter to make sure you're not swaging them down too small for the bore.

Do they pass the plunk test in your barrel? Factory 9mm ammo is often much smaller than SAAMI specs at the mouth.

David

rsrocket1
03-25-2016, 04:48 PM
Also, color a few of your non-passing cartridges completely with a magic marker. Drop them into the case gauge and see where the ink rubs off. It may be on the rim but it may be on the bullet if any of the 0.358" is sitting above the rim. It could also be at the base of the cartridge if you are not getting the sizing die low enough to the shell holder. If it is in the middle of the case due to bullet bulge, that could be a problem due to too thick a case wall for 0.358" bullets. Remember most 9mm jacketed bullets are only 0.355"

FISH4BUGS
03-25-2016, 05:46 PM
I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die on my Dillon 550 and my 9mm cast bullets (H&G 331 sized 356). Passes virtually all the case gauge tests.

dudel
03-25-2016, 06:07 PM
Is this brass shorter than your regular brass? if so, it's not making it far enough into your crimp die. take a sized case and see if it gauges correctly. Could also be possible that your new brass is too thick for Boolits, but just fine for jacketed.

fredj338
03-25-2016, 06:56 PM
MY Dillon 9mm gage is min spec. Many rds that won't fit, also won't fit my 1911/9mm, but happily fit in my stock Glocks. This is with .0356" or .0357" bullets. An LFCD wouldn't help as the problem is often at the rim or bottom of the case head.

Scharfschuetze
03-25-2016, 08:00 PM
I use .358" sized boolits in my Hi-Power and M9. No issues for me, but your chamber and throat are no doubt different.

Taper crimp is the way to go for the 9mm, but as you just found out, too much of a crimp is a no go. The reason is that too much compression or crimp can often cause a slight bulge under the crimp. I crimp as a fourth and final stage in loading for my semi-auto ammo.

To be honest, I don't bother with case gauges. I just use the kerplunk test with the barrel that the ammo is loaded for. It is the "official" case gauge for the ammo for that pistol. Remember that 9mm Parabellum brass is all over the map when it comes to specs. Current US manufacture is pretty consistent, but there are still differences between the myriad of brands out there. 9mm barrels and chambers also seem to be inconsistent depending on country of manufacture and when it was made. After almost 115 years of continuous production in who knows how many countries, there are going to be some variables.

Are you using Dillon dies with your 550 press? If so, they are pretty aggressive (except at the base) in their sizing and a bit light on expansion while charging with powder. Perhaps a .356" diameter boolit will help with your pass-fail rate.

For best accuracy and reliability, you can also segregate your cases by headstamp and then load each brand with the necessary crimp and boolit diameter. Long and short cases will also give you a different crimp pressure and thus ballistic property.

Don Fischer
03-25-2016, 08:24 PM
How do you size up a 356 bullet to 358? also, I've never run into a case gauge before, what is it?

edctexas
03-25-2016, 08:49 PM
A number of people make case gauges. You are NOT looking for a trimming gauge. I use some gauges bought from Brownells ( MidwayUSA also has them). They cover four calibers. Basically it is an aluminum block or steel piece with a precise hole drilled through it. It has a step in the diameter where the case show headspace on. The 9mmX19 (Luger) will drop or plunk into the gauge with the case head flat with the gauge top. They do not always fall out but should drop in. Wilson and EGW make ones for sale in Brownells.

If you do PC in lieu of lubing, you can increase the boolit dia by up to 3-4mils in dia. For 9mm I size to 0.358. Then ESPC (spray PCing). After baking I resize to 0.03588 for my H&K P30 and my M&P Shield. The Shield will shoot 0.0357-0.0.358 but the H&K poly barrel needs 0.359 to prevent keyholing. The Shield does accept the larger boolits.

I have a pair of WWII Lugers that need 0.356 so I do occasionally make smaller boolits, but usually shoot those with boolits for my 380 Walthers.

Ed C

lightload
03-25-2016, 09:08 PM
Don, the .358 boolit started out at a greater diameter like .359, .360, etc. and was reduced to .358 by running it through a .358 boolit sizing die. A case gauge is a cylinder made to the industry dimensions for a specific caliber. It's easier to remove a pistol's barrel and drop bloaded rounds into it to see if they fit--plunk test.

Mytmousemalibu
03-26-2016, 02:35 PM
Also make sure that your case gauge is clean, some Q-tips and alcohol works good. I have had some that will hang up and it seemed like more would not fully insert after that initial round. I found that sometimes a flake of powder (if you are using a fine grain powder) or two or a brass shaving would deposit in the gauge, especially on the step where the case mouth seats and this causes anomalies. For pistol brass, I do lube it for smoothness and easier operation through the machine. I dump brass in a bag and put in a couple shots of Hornady One Shot and mix, or Dillon DCL spray. Both will draw loose powder, brass, PC, etc stuck to the cases and thus into the case gauge causing errors. It is slight hassle but worth it to keep lubing cases as the press operation is much smoother. I run a Dillon 650 and originally ran my Lee 9mm dies but was creating a lot of brass shavings, mostly from the FCD. I wasn't excessively flairing the brass and what little was there was about gone after seating. I switched to Dillon dies and there is much less brass swarf which is good. I think that might just be the nature of the Lee die because of the internal step inside.

jeffb1722
03-30-2016, 10:49 AM
Thanks to everyone who posted suggestions. I cleaned out the case gauge which was fairly dirty, which seemed to help a little. The largest improvement came when I slightly reduced the amount of crimp on the boolit. I am back down to about 5-10 percent failure rate which is where I was before. All of the failures I am incurring are coming from the foreign made brass. I guess I'll just have to segregate that foreign made brass out and just reload American made name brands. Again, thanks again for everyone's suggestions.

Jeff

Virginia John
03-30-2016, 11:14 AM
Try the "plunk" test in the barrel you are going to be shooting. That is where you drop them in the barrel and if they go plunk and the case is slightly lower than the hood, every thing is good. The "plunk" test is far more important that the case gauge. Secondly, are you seating the boolets deep enough in the case so that the band is not interfering with the seating in the gauge? I use European brass all the time, I prefer it over US brass.

EDK
04-05-2016, 01:56 PM
I scrounge range brass. Yesterday was some kind of Feds in black BDUs qualifying..I picked up 2 gallon zip lok bags of nickel plated 9mm brass. (I've been finding a fair amount of 45ACP lately.) I run ALL brass through DILLON case gauges..mine and what I pick up...before tumbling. Anything suspect goes in the scrap brass can. I use DILLON dies on a 550B with LEE 356 120 TC sized to .358 in my STAR with LARS' 50/50 or B-A-C or Carnuaba Red. I'm using GLOCKS with KKM or STORM LAKE barrels.

I found problems with 45ACP in my GLOCK 41 with KKM barrel and the 30 S with OEM. By NOT expanding the case mouth enough, seating the boolit put enough pressure to swell the casing near the web. I've been loading for almost 50 years and never had the problem before. My gunsmith diagnosed the problem. You have to play with the taper crimp a bit also.

A LEE CARBIDE FACTORY CRIMP die can correct a lot of minor errors until you figure out the problems. I keep mine in a LEE hand press and use it after I run the loaded rounds through the case gauge. FEDERAL and WINCHESTER brass are the ones that get the factory crimp treatment so far. I've got TWO 45ACP DILLON gauges and the older one is considerably tighter than the newer one.

GLOCK OEM barrels aren't lead friendly and the 45ACP is tough on swelling brass to boot. The leade into the barrels doesn't like my new ACCURATE 45 175 B mould unless they are really seated deep. HENSLEY & GIBBS #68 works great.

tja6435
04-05-2016, 02:12 PM
When I ran into a roadblock with 9mm and cast boolits, I tried everything but would get failure to chamber hang ups sometimes. I tried Lee's case bulge buster (which pushes the case all the way through your factory crimp die to size the whole case) and that fixed my problem. I've had 100% since I began pushing all the 9mm brass through the bulge buster. Redding makes a push through case sizer as well, if I recall correctly. Lee was cheap and it worked for my problem