Experiment,oil in mold

[Cleve Branch]

After reading a lot here on this forum I decided to test, casting with oily Moulds. I took my RCBS double cavity and sprayed it with Kroil penephite. Then put it on the newly aquiered hot plate till it started smoking,took it out wiped out excess oil and put it back. After it quit smoking I started casting. First two boolits came out wrinkled, every thing after came out perfect and dropped better than before. Something to be said about Mould Temperture.

[bangerjim]

I have touted the "grease does not cause wrinkles" thing for several years now. It's an old wives' tale that got started countless decades ago and people are so afraid of grease, they never really tested it. They just assumed it did, but never used a hotplate, just sat the mold on the pot! Grease/oil does NOT cause wrinkles, cold molds do.

Anyone CAN easily test it!

You might have had an excess of oil in that 1st couple and the grease has to go somewhere! Usually heating to FULL casting temp will either drive it out or make it so thin the lead pour just pushes it out the vents immediately.

I use PAM as a release agent for casting hot melt glue boolits and do not clean my molds when going back to hot lead. I just wipe any excess of with a paper towel and if any excess is down in the groves, I use a Q-tip. That's all. No scrubbing and cleaning and cleaning and scrubbing like so many promote on here. And I have never cleaned a new mold.....get perfect drops from the 1st one.

The key is a HOT HOT HOT mold when you are starting. Buy that hotplate! The best investment you will ever make. It is as important as a mold and a lead pot.

Do what you feel is necessary. While you are scrubbing your molds, I will be casting perfect boolits! [smilie=w:

bangerjim

[427smith]

ever over lube a sprue plate screw part way thru a casting session then 1 or 2 cavities turn to **** from lube migration.

[GhostHawk]

Liquid Wrench dry lube solves a lot of problems.

[MarkP]

ever over lube a sprue plate screw part way thru a casting session then 1 or 2 cavities turn to **** from lube migration.

I have experienced the same after lubing sprue plate and or lubing alignment pins while casting perfectly, after lubing wrinkles appeared. This was while using a thermo couple on mold blocks and temperature was being monitored.

[Mal Paso]

I smeared sprue plate lube so it got in the cavities just to see and no casting problems.

Get a drop of water in a mold however and pour in some lead, you should hear that mold Squawk.:bigsmyl2:


First time a mold talked to me. Boolits look awful too. Ragged holes in the middle.

[Walter Laich]

I ran a test on a new Lee mold that had some kind of oil in it from the factory. No problems. First pour was wrinkled but rest were fine. Think I didn't have the mold all the way up to temp for first pour

[dudel]

It may look like I'm cleaning my new Lee molds with a Q-Tip. I'm really checking for burrs.

Kroil hasn't been a problem either. Wrinkles went away when the hot plate came in.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Depends on the mould... my noe 360-180 I got a little run off lubing my sprue plate and I could not get wrinkle free bullets again until I scrubbed it clean. My 400 grain .476 lee mould that I have leemented will give me un wrinkled bullets after about 3-4 pours from a dead cold mould dirty or clean, oily or dry.

[Dan Cash]

When an oily mould gets hot enough, oil turns to carbon. Result is similar to extremly heavy smoking of cavity. Check your bullet diameter.

[gwpercle]

Liquid Wrench dry lube solves a lot of problems.

Correct, my exact experiences. Q-Tip a film inside the cavities and they try to jump out , with no wrinkles.
I also use it topside and underside of sprue plate and top of blocks , lead doesn't stick .
Applying thin coat with a Q-Tip works much better than spraying a heavy coat.
All my first moulds were steel Lyman, you oiled them for storage . Next session you cast boolits until they started coming out well filled, usually 10 or 12 pours got it done. No big deal. I do prefer aluminum because of no rust and weight.
Gary

[MarkP]

My wrinkles were caused from synthetic 2-cycle oil. NOE aluminum and brass molds and an Accurate brass as well as a Lyman slug mold. It did eventually burn off but it took a while.

[reddog81]

I recently purchased a 6 cavity Lee mold that caused wrinkles for the first 200+ bullets. Prior to casting I cleaned the mold with mineral spirits. I wiped the mold down and let it dry for over a day. The first couple of drops were terrible even after pre-heating on a burner. The next couple of drops still had wrinkles. I took a break and looked into the mold and there was a brown film covering the cavities and block faces. I used a clean rag to wipe off what I could after letting the mold cool for a couple of minutes. It took another dozen+ drops to get non-wrinkled bullets. By the time I was casting bullets with 0 visible defects the 20 lbs pot had been half way drained. I took all the rejects and refilled the pot. Once everything got back up and running I was getting 6 perfect bullets every time and they would drop easily. I am certain the mold and pot were hotter than I normally run then and reduced the pot temperature once everything was good to go.

I have no idea if the mineral spirits caused the problems I was experiences or what was going on. Looking back I should have washed the mold with hot water and dishsoap like NOE recommends but I figured the mineral spirits would be fine especially since I was going to let it dry for over a day afterwards.

[toallmy]

Every once in a while , I touch a little bull plate lube , or bee's wax on the top of the blocks , and the spru plate bottom and top wile I'm casting and wipe it back off . But I may have a wrinkles afterwards if not careful . I just keep going until it cleans up , but I drop the cast bullets in a separate tray easier to find later .

[trixter]

So I have been using 2 cycle oil to lube pins and plate, if I change, what should I use? Is BULLPLATE a viable choice, what about others?

Thanks

[bangerjim]

I recently purchased a 6 cavity Lee mold that caused wrinkles for the first 200+ bullets. Prior to casting I cleaned the mold with mineral spirits. I wiped the mold down and let it dry for over a day. The first couple of drops were terrible even after pre-heating on a burner. The next couple of drops still had wrinkles. I took a break and looked into the mold and there was a brown film covering the cavities and block faces. I used a clean rag to wipe off what I could after letting the mold cool for a couple of minutes. It took another dozen+ drops to get non-wrinkled bullets. By the time I was casting bullets with 0 visible defects the 20 lbs pot had been half way drained. I took all the rejects and refilled the pot. Once everything got back up and running I was getting 6 perfect bullets every time and they would drop easily. I am certain the mold and pot were hotter than I normally run then and reduced the pot temperature once everything was good to go.

I have no idea if the mineral spirits caused the problems I was experiences or what was going on. Looking back I should have washed the mold with hot water and dishsoap like NOE recommends but I figured the mineral spirits would be fine especially since I was going to let it dry for over a day afterwards.

You problem was probably just one simple thing......a COLD MOLD! Buy a hot plate and cast perfect boolits from the 1st drop with a mold heated to FULL CASTING TEMP . . . . not just warm as it gets on the edge of your pot. That is totally olde school.

Pouring techniques can cause minor wrinkles also.

[bangerjim]

So I have been using 2 cycle oil to lube pins and plate, if I change, what should I use? Is BULLPLATE a viable choice, what about others?

Thanks

BullPlate is 2 cycle oil!

Getting it in the cavities will not hurt anything. I do it all the time. I use the blue stuff from WalMart that costs about $3 for a small bottle that will last me 3 lifetimes.

[toallmy]

Trixter you will probably get good bullets with the mold from now on . Just do as bangerjim suggested pre heat your mold .

[reddog81]

I had preheated the mold on a hot plate burner. I was casting hotter than I typically cast. I usually cast with the LEE pot set to 2. I was casting at 5. I cast at a fairly quick rate. I noted the preheating and hotter than normal casting temp in my post...

[bangerjim]

I had preheated the mold on a hot plate burner. I was casting hotter than I typically cast. I usually cast with the LEE pot set to 2. I was casting at 5. I cast at a fairly quick rate. I noted the preheating and hotter than normal casting temp in my post...

2????? OMG! Both my Lee 4-20 pots run at 6.5-7.5 all the time.

The setting is arbitrary, as the Lee t-stat is an indirect reading of pot temp, but I have never seen 2 used before to get good drops.

banger

[reddog81]

My pot is fairly new (only a year old) and the heat setting of 2 or 3 works for me once the mold warms up. I start at 7 to melt the lead. Turn it to 4 or 5 once I'm casting and then turn it down to 2 or 3 once the mold is hot. Leaving it at 7.5 would overheat my molds and slow me down. I'd be waiting for the sprue to cool for 10 seconds.

[lablover]

My lee 10 lb pot like to be at 6. But thermometer is in the mail and I'm sure that will change

[Strtspdlx]

I put some rosin core solder in my pot to add tin. Bad idea by the way. The flux in the solder makes a mess. Anyway I dipped the corner of my Lee 6 cavity in the mold to get it up to temp when I pulled it out I noticed all the flux had migrated to the inside of the blocks and into the cavities. Still drops perfect boolits and they release easier then they ever have. I'm still debating cleaning it off or letting it go. I can literally cut the sprue open the blocks and no shaking or tapping and they fall out size is perfect also.

[bangerjim]

I put some rosin core solder in my pot to add tin. Bad idea by the way. The flux in the solder makes a mess. Anyway I dipped the corner of my Lee 6 cavity in the mold to get it up to temp when I pulled it out I noticed all the flux had migrated to the inside of the blocks and into the cavities. Still drops perfect boolits and they release easier then they ever have. I'm still debating cleaning it off or letting it go. I can literally cut the sprue open the blocks and no shaking or tapping and they fall out size is perfect also.


Save yourself time. Buy a hot plate and quit dipping your molds.

banger

[rbuck351]

I relube the sprue plate screw and the alignment pins on my molds occasionally while casting from an already up to temp mold and lead that is casting perfect boolits. If I get a bit much oil on things and it migrates to a cavity, that cavity instantly starts giving wrinkled boolits. If it gets into two or three cavities, I get wrinkled boolits from two or three cavities. I am curious to why that would happen if it isn't the oil. Yep, it was pre heated with a hot plate and already casting good boolits when oil hit the cavity and the wrinkles appeared. Apparently it happens to others as well.

[leadman]

I have been casting with molds up to temp and got too much Bullplate or Amsoil synthetic 2 cycle oil on the top of the mold. Got in the cavities and immediately dropped wrinkled boolits. The synthetic does not like to burn off very well so have had to stop and clean it.
Mineral spirits is a solvent that leaves an oily residue, whether you can see it or not. Especially now that the 100 degree version is gone and replaced by the 140 degree version to prevent VOCs. I like acetone or lacquer thinner for leaving an oil free surface. Purple Power alkyd soap does a good job of cleaning a mold, but don't leave it on an aluminum or anodized surface for long.

[Elkins45]

I relube the sprue plate screw and the alignment pins on my molds occasionally while casting from an already up to temp mold and lead that is casting perfect boolits. If I get a bit much oil on things and it migrates to a cavity, that cavity instantly starts giving wrinkled boolits. If it gets into two or three cavities, I get wrinkled boolits from two or three cavities. I am curious to why that would happen if it isn't the oil. Yep, it was pre heated with a hot plate and already casting good boolits when oil hit the cavity and the wrinkles appeared. Apparently it happens to others as well.

My experience has been the same. I think maybe it's because the low viscosity oils flash to vapor so fast they disrupt the flow of the pour and the wrinkled are the channels the vapor follows to escape the cavity. I notice that when I get lube on the tip of the pin of a HP mold that there's a flash of smoke the comes out of the sprue hole when I pour the next one.

[Lloyd Smale]

I lube my hinge pin, alignment pins and the top of the mold and spruce plate but sure don't put lube in the cavitys. A mold to me is a precision tool that was made to cast a bullet to an exact size. Why would I want to put something in the cavitys that builds up and displaces lead.

[bangerjim]

I lube my hinge pin, alignment pins and the top of the mold and spruce plate but sure don't put lube in the cavitys. A mold to me is a precision tool that was made to cast a bullet to an exact size. Why would I want to put something in the cavitys that builds up and displaces lead.

You are certainly correct - - - there is absolutely NO reason to put oil in a mold cavity on purpose. But it can and does get down in there a little bit on occasions. The reason I have mentioned this in the past is it seems everybody goes into a holy war panic if they get a teeny microscopic bit of oil in their mold cavities. No reason to panic or scrub and clean the dickens out of a mold if that happens.

If there is enough oil down in there to displace lead, then yes, you got a problem. And you may want to clean it up a bit with some solvent of your choice (not paint thinner or mineral spirits...not strong enough) and a rag and Q-tip. A thin coat will burn off or be carried off by the 1st few casts.

It is all tied back to unchangeable physical laws. Liquid lead is many times heavier and denser than any oil you should be using around your molds and will easily displace any oil almost immediately. I have read panic stories right on this forum over the years where someone had to cast HUNDREDS of bad wrinkly boolits B4 finally getting good ones, thinking it was caused by a spec of oil. Oil will not hang around that long! When actually it was a simple function of a cold mold not pre-heated to full casting temperature on a hotplate. (as we all do today, right?!!? :razz:) They were told to "scrub & clean and clean & scrub" to solve the problem. Not so.

Works for me. Always has.....always will. :guntootsmiley:

banger

[SSGOldfart]

I put some rosin core solder in my pot to add tin. Bad idea by the way. The flux in the solder makes a mess. Anyway I dipped the corner of my Lee 6 cavity in the mold to get it up to temp when I pulled it out I noticed all the flux had migrated to the inside of the blocks and into the cavities. Still drops perfect boolits and they release easier then they ever have. I'm still debating cleaning it off or letting it go. I can literally cut the sprue open the blocks and no shaking or tapping and they fall out size is perfect also.
Hmmm you could be onto something????

[rbuck351]

Believe me, I DO NOT deliberately get oil into the cavities but occasionally a bit will creep in there and when it does, the next couple or three casts will be bad. A quick wipe with a q tip and a bit of smoke and all is good again. It's not a major problem but it does cause a few bad casts. I read that kroil in a mold would make it cast really good but it was a mess until it was removed. Most oils start smoking around 375/400 degrees which is about operating temp of molds. So we hit that bit of oil in a cavity with 700 degree lead and it vaporizes ( expands rapidly) displacing lead for wrinkles. That's my theory and I'm sticking with it. But no, it's not a big deal as it's easy to clean especially when really hot. Brake Kleen on a q tip and bingo all fresh and clean.

[Screwbolts]

BullPlate is 2 cycle oil!

Getting it in the cavities will not hurt anything. I do it all the time. I use the blue stuff from WalMart that costs about $3 for a small bottle that will last me 3 lifetimes.

Banger and I are of the same mindset totally, I often have oild residue on the to to mold while casting and never a problem. I like Banger run my molds hot and heat them the very same way, I might even start with 2 molds on top of the pot heating if, I want boolitz from them out of the same alloy, run hot and fast, after getting hot, I just slide to sprue off never have to tap my molds.

Ken

[Screwbolts]

2????? OMG! Both my Lee 4-20 pots run at 6.5-7.5 all the time.

The setting is arbitrary, as the Lee t-stat is an indirect reading of pot temp, but I have never seen 2 used before to get good drops.
banger

YUP, apsolutly Yup! I agree, Yupper

Ken

[chumly2071]

For those that are advocates of using oils as mold releases, and also powder coat, have you noticed any residual effects on coating adhesion to the bullets?

[bangerjim]

For those that are advocates of using oils as mold releases, and also powder coat, have you noticed any residual effects on coating adhesion to the bullets?

I NEVER advocate any "oil mold releases" at all. You do not need a release agent of any kind in a QUALITY well-maintained mold.

And if one plans on PC'ing, you do not want ANY oil on the boolits! Even body oils from your fingers. Oil and grease will impede the adhesion of PC when baked.

But carp happens and a bit of mold plate oil can get down in there. Just do not panic like many seem to do, and break out the brake cleaner, soap and toothbrushes. It goes away real fast when hit with 750F molten lead! And since I drop all my casts into water (just to cool them, not to harden them) any teeny bit of oil on the freshly cast boolits will float on the surface of the water. Lay a paper towel on there and suck it up!

Problem..........solved.

banger