How about a ladle primer?

[Lead melter]

Got a pot, and a new Lee casting ladle.

Have several molds at 400 or more grains, which seems to be the area folks start using a ladle instead of a bottom pour.

Really have no trouble with fillout from my bottom pour, but would just like to increase my knowledge base.

Can someone, or multiple persons, post a little primer on the use of a ladle. Heat time, stream appearance, cadence, alloy composition, mold to ladle relative position....you guys know what to post.

Thanks a bunch.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Got a pot, and a new Lee casting ladle.

Have several molds at 400 or more grains, which seems to be the area folks start using a ladle instead of a bottom pour.

Really have no trouble with fillout from my bottom pour, but would just like to increase my knowledge base.

Can someone, or multiple persons, post a little primer on the use of a ladle. Heat time, stream appearance, cadence, alloy composition, mold to ladle relative position....you guys know what to post.

Thanks a bunch.

I am in complete agreement with Bret that bottom pour furnaces are tools of the devil, or if not Satanic, they are part of an anti-gun conspiracy. Having said that, if you are successful with bottom pour stick with it. I never had the patience to put up with dripping or clogging bottom feeders.

I use an RCBS ladle because it is big enough to support my biggest mould, a four cavity H&G 20 gr. The RCBS ladle has a further great advantage in the handy fin on the bottom, which makes raking dross to the side easy. That leaves a clean place to dip from. I don't use Lyman ladels because they are too small. I have no experience with Lee ladles. Many casters on this board use larger ladles available from The Antimony Man but I never felt the need.

Alloy composition: Wheelweights plus 2% tin. Lately I have left out the tin when casting pistol boolits with good results, but I want there be no doubt about fill out when casting rifle boolits. I am a fanatic about good rifle boolits.

Heat time: I put the ladle in the alloy when I start heating the Coleman stove. When the alloy is melted and up to casting temperature, the ladle is hot enough. Also the ladle is needed for stirring flux into the alloy.

Cadence: Self-regulating. I fill the mould and rake the dross out of the way for the next dip while the sprue is freezing. It works out with no lost time for me. After about 20-25 cycles of the mould the dross has built up to be more than I like. I then leave the mould full and close to the fire and add metal, flux, stir, and skim.

Mould to ladle relative position: That varies from mould to mould. Most moulds are happy with my usual technique. I fill the ladle, turn the mould sideways, connect the ladle to the mould, and turn the mould upright. Then I raise the ladle very slightly above the mould and allow a good sprue to form. Next I turn the ladle sideways and return it to the pot for dross raking. Obviously, if the mould has two cavities one must let the first sprue harden, turn the mould sideways again, and repeat. With my four-cavity H&G I increase the temperature a little and and pour the channel that connects the four sprue holes full. When all that is done, the sprue is frozen and the boolits are ready to be dropped. After the mould is emptied and closed, the cycle is repeated. A vey few moulds will prefer that the mould and dipper be held connected longer as Lyman recommends.

Not sure about what is meant by "stream appearance." I guess it should look the same from a ladle or a bottom pour furnace, as the vicsosity of the alloy is temperature dependent. If the alloy doesn't pour readily, it's not hot enough.

[Marlin Junky]

A Lee ladle? :groner:

The object here is to fill the cavities before the metal in the ladle cools. The minimum ladle for a serious caster is the RCBS ladle and IMO, it doesn't hold enough metal and is slow to operate. Before anyone thinks I am shooting crummy bullets because I claim the RCBS ladle is slow, I throw everything back that isn't within plus or minus 1/4% of the mean bullet weight for an entire casting session. I use a ladle that holds over a pound of metal. Do yourself a favor and buy an RCBS and a Rowell#2 ladle. Don't buy the Rowell#1, it is too shallow and the spout is too narrow. I just tried my #1 for the first time after using my #2 for years and decided it was inferior to the #2. You can use the RCBS ladle for DC molds up to about 180 grains and the Rowell#2 for everything else once you understand how to use it. Once you get good with the #2, you may find the best use for your RCBS ladle is to flux your metal. Save the Lee ladle for stirring your tea. :smile:

MJ

[Ifishsum]

IMO the Lee ladle is not very good for pouring, the spout clogs easily (sending lead all over the top of the mold) and it doesn't hold enough lead for a large double cavity mold. I've poured with it but it's a PITA, I'd buy a different one if I was ladling on a regular basis. Mostly I use it to stir and flux.

I'm new so I don't have the technique down yet, but I did have to pour those biggies fairly quickly to get good fillout.

[JSnover]

Just started using a Rowell #3 and I like it a lot! I like the greater mass for keeping the pour hot in case I have to break stride for some reason.

[runfiverun]

i never hear anything about the lyman ladle?
if you are pouring with one of them i like to use the rocker on the bottom of them,
and tip in just like a bottom pour but you can pour faster, or as fast with more accuracy.
i co have some molds that donot like to be forcefed.

[Marlin Junky]

Just started using a Rowell #3 and I like it a lot! I like the greater mass for keeping the pour hot in case I have to break stride for some reason.

Does your #3 have a wood handle?

MJ

[Bret4207]

My hatred of BP pots comes from a series of bad experiences with 2 Lees. So those of you who adore your BP's keep that in mind. Had I started out with an RCBS I might have gone over to the dark side too! Instead, I choose to fight for Truth, Justice and The American Way by pouring with a ladle.

I use an ancient Lyman, a 1lb Rowell and a modified gravy ladle. Of the 3 the gravy ladle works best! But usually I forget I have it and use the Lyman. The Rowell gets used on 6-10 cav moulds. It's just too big and awkward to use on a smaller mould. I cast hot and fast. Frosty booilts work fine for me. I also use a stainless steel pot which has cut down on my dross by 50-75% I estimate. My theory is a lot of the dross is nothing more than rust from my cast iron pots. YMMV.

As for appearance- My alloy works best when it flows like a heavy syrup or medium thick gravy. If there is any lack of smoothness to the flow it's too cold. IOW if it looks like tomato sauce forget it! I have to use various methods to get good fill out depending on the mould. Some like contact with the spout like Bruce mentions, other demand an air gap of 1" or so and a large sprue puddle. The best suggestion I can give anyone is figure out what works with each particular mould and WRITE IT DOWN!!! I've wasted a lot of time relearning what a mould wants. I don't have time any more to go through that.

Keep your mould spotlessly clean, keep the sprue plate flat and sharp, turn the darn temp up till you get good fill out and you should have little problems.

[Ben]

I'm a ladle man........too old to change now.

Ben

[montana_charlie]

Keep your mould spotlessly clean, keep the spruce plate flat and sharp, turn the darn temp up till you get good fill out and you should have little problems.
I initially had trouble finding an alloy temperature that was high enough to fillout well, but still low enough to keep from scorching my spruce plate...making it no longer flat and sharp.
After trying oak and ironwood with no better luck, I went to a metal plate for cutting off the sprue.
CM

[Bret4207]

Thanks Charlie! Now you know why I never made it big in the proof reading biz! My spell check catches "sprue" but not "spruce".

[JSnover]

Does your #3 have a wood handle?

MJ

No but I handle it with a pair of welding gloves. Wood handles are nice but I've had them loosen up. Seems like they always need attention after that.

[montana_charlie]

I also have a (metal handled) #3 Rowell ladel. Because of it's large size, I can't imagine using it to pour bullets...cannon balls, maybe.
CM

[JSnover]

It really is too big but at this point I'm still collecting the "right" equipment and cleaning up my technique. And the Lee Iron Shot Glass is too small for my liking.
The #3 is more of an ingot mold, although it's on the small side for them.

[Dragoon]

For the most part Lee equipment is a good value for the money in my opinion. However; they should be ashamed of themselves for that ladle.

I do all my casting with a ladle and have a couple of small moulds that work better when I pour the lead in a stream from about an inch over the mould. Thought the Lee ladle would work good for that and if not I could use it to skim dross. It is completely useless for anything.

Sorry for the rant.

BTW, I use an RCBS ladle for bullets and a three pound or so plumbers ladle for ingots. Both work fine.

[HeavyMetal]

Have a Lee "ladle" that stir's only, bottom pour for everything but single cav's, for those I use an RCBS or Lyman ladle (which ever I can find when I cast) since my singles are HP's no since fireing up the production pots for them.

Yes the Lee ladle sucks for anything but stiring and fluxing.

[mooman76]

I been using the Lee ladle for years. It does have some to be desired and a bigger one would be nice. I made a bigger one out of a metal cap and stuck it to a stick. If you take a pair of plires though and shape the Lee spout a little better and take some of the edge off with a file it does pour better. Also if you put some mould releas on it the gunk doesn't stick as bad.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Sometimes you just have to drill out the spout on your ladle once you understand it and your moulding work.

Some times the old little lymans just don't hold enough bullet juice for a double pour. You need a bigger RCBS for quality work on those big bulllito grandees.

Sometimes you have to pull the wood handle off and shorten the handle shank to suit. Maybe even booger up the thread to get it to stay put in the ladle handle hole, especially if you like to whack it on the ingot mould to discard hot dross.

Sometimes you have to drill out a sprue plate a little to have a leetle bigger hole or holes, or maybe just to countersink to sharpen the cutoff hole. BvT