First .308 loads with Lee C309-170-F. Any suggestions

[Spug]

Hi all, I've been lurking on this site for a little while and have gleaned a lot of information here. I haven't been reloading that long but have loaded and shot several hundred each of .380, .357, .45 ACP and .45-70, for which I also cast. I'm getting ready to load my first ever bottleneck catridges in .308 and decided it might be good to ask for a little advice, including whether it is unwise to jump into cast or if I should get some jacketed rounds behind me first.

I cast up some 170gr flat point bullets with a Lee C309-170-F mold, with Hornady gas checks installed with a Lee push-through sizer. I lubed them with liquid alox before sizing, then pan lubed with 5 parts beeswax, 4 parts Crisco, 1 part petroleum jelly mixture after sizing. From what I read recently it isn't necessary to use the liquid alox prior to sizing, so in the future I might try using something else that isn't quite so messy to lightly lube the bullets before pushing them through the sizing die. I keep Fluid Film on hand, which is lanolin-based, so I was thinking of trying that.

I've got my own once-fired PMC brass, deprimed and wet tumbled, and since I only intend to fire these rounds in my Ruger GSR bolt action I want to load much as I do for straight wall cases on my Lee classic cast turret press: in this instance neck size only, prime on the press, powder-through die with a Lee Auto Drum, seating, and factory crimp.

I have a bit of IMR 4198 and was planning on starting with that, although I could also spare some Unique. I've got some Trail Boss too, although it has gotten hard to find and I'd hate to run out of it for powder-puff loads in other calibers.

I haven't found much load data for this combination, although the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has data for a 173 gr. flat nose Lyman bullet that appears very similar in profile to the bullets I have. The manual lists data for this at 25.0 to 34.0 of IMR-4198. It also lists Unique charges of from 10.0 to 15.0 for this bullet.

Also, I noticed that the gas check will extend to the bottom of the shoulder, the bullet extending about 0.2" into the case. It seems there are different opinions on whether this is something to be concerned about. I could seat higher and crimp at the first lube groove, but it just seems neater and cleaner to seat to the crimp groove.

I don't have huge performance aspirations for this load, at least at first. Mostly I want something pleasant to shoot that won't lead my bore too much and will allow me to learn the ropes of bottleneck loading and shoot more for less with my home-rolled rounds.



Do you all think using the data in the Lyman manual for the Lyman #311041 will be okay for my lee C309-170-F bullets?
Should I worry about the gas checks coming off, or gas cutting of the bullet if it is seated into the case? I couldn't pull one off with my thumbnail.
Should I start with jacketed bullets before attempting to load cast in this cartridge?
Any pet loads for 4198? There's a 9 grain spread in the Lyman manual.
Or would starting with 10 grains of Unique be more forgiving?


Any suggestions would be appreciated. I was planning on loading 50 to start with this afternoon, if anyone wants to jump in, although I probably wouldn't be able to shoot them for a week or so. I could probably pop off a couple in my rural backyard, but do most of my shooting at the range.

Thanks.

163949

[MarkP]

I would recommend starting with the Unique loads these will be pleasant to shoot and I would expect you should be able to attain 2.5" @ 100yds in your first trial. Put a slight flair on the mouths similar to the straight walled cartridges you are currently loading. The LEE universal expander will work fine, NOE makes an expander for use in the Lee expander they are caliber specific and work well.

Your POI will be lower than your jacketed rounds maybe 12" or so. So use a large target or large piece of cardboard under your target.

I would not get too worried about the gas check being below the shoulder neck junction.

The lower charges of Unique will be quieter than a 22 LR handgun and you should be able to try some in your backyard. But Be carful not to under estimate the penetration of these reduced loads.

[robg]

I like to keep the gas check in the neck of the case and use 18gr of 2400. My savage likes that load.

[454PB]

I've had good results with that boolit using both Unique and IMR 4198. Don't worry about the gas check being below the neck....in fact it's hard to avoid with most boolits used in .308.

[s mac]

Use the data you have for the 311041, leave off the crimp. It's not needed with a bolt action.

[Spug]

Thanks to all. As sometimes happens, I spent quite a bit more time than I'd figured on diddling around and then decided to take MarkP's advice and load a few up with Unique. Although I hadn't needed to flare the case mouth when I made my dummy round, I did shave some lead off the first two I loaded, so I decided to skip the crimp as s mac suggested and used the Lee universal expander die I had fortunately bought!

Just taking a few offhand shots at a paper plate a random distance away, they seemed to shoot to point of aim, even if I was jerking around a bit. Very mild report and negligible recoil. No soot on the cases, no unburned grains or visible lead in the barrel or on a cleaning patch. I'll probably load 20 or so more with the same ten grains, then maybe try 10 each of 12.5 and 15 grains of Unique and take 'er to the range. Assuming that works out well, I'll load 50 or so of what my rifle seems to like and spend a little more time getting the feel of the load, and then I'll attempt a similar experiment with the IMR 4198 based on the above-mentioned data when I'm ready to step up the pace a little bit.

Still interested in what others might have to say about lead in .308 Win. Also, what do you think about shooting a few jacketed bullets at the end of a lead shooting session? Will that help to clear the barrel or is it a necessity to clean after shooting lead and before shooting jacketed?

[s mac]

I would be more concerned that the copper fouling would lead to leading. Well fitting boolits should not lead your barrel.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Gas-check below the neck is not a problem. A proper neck expander - Lyman 'M', NOE for Lee Expander or VERY CAREFULLY adjusted Lee Neck Expander neede to avoid shaving bullets. I prefer 4198, 5744, or Reloader 7 for cast bullets in .308 for shooting beyond 30 or 40 yards. 18 to 20 grains of 4198 is good place to start. Some where between 18 and 25 grains you should hit a 'node' a 1-3 grain range where the bullets impact together - that's your load. I expect my Savage 99's in .308 to group at least 2" or better at 100 yards with good cast bullets. The Lee 170, the Lyman 311041 and other similar bullets are work well in the .308.

[facetious]

Take a boolit and try pushing it in to the muzzle to see how it fits. My m77mkII would not group them under five or six inches, the brother in laws 30-06 shot them in to 1.5 inch all day long. On my Ruger the nose went in with out marking the nose on his 06 it was a tight fit.

[Screwbolts]

Spug, I have shot a lot of the LEE boolits from my mold of the same markings with 25 gr of 4198 it will read right around 1900 FPS on my crony out of my 24" barreled my 308.

The very first thing I would do is put your recipe lube with crisco aside for use in Black powder cartridges or Muzzle loaders, and go to the Lube thread and look up Simple lube. Follow that recipe and you will only need one grove lubed with Simple lube and if your ruger has a reasonable smooth barrel it will never lead and IMHO your first shots from a cold barrel will be right on. I would keep the crisco out of the case if it were me.

Ken