simple crimp question

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I have always cast boolits with crimp grooves, now I have a lee .459-405-hb mold, which has 3 grease grooves and no crimp groove. should I crimp the case down on the forward driving band, or just in front of it.by the way it will be in a tube magazine. I have loaded them once before and just crimped them in the forward lube groove,it worked fine but I know it isn't the way it is supposed to be. I am fixin to stary loading in about 30 minutes so if anyone can help I would much appreciate it, thank you
Travis

[Tatume]

Crimping ahead of the forward driving band will not prevent bullets from being pushed into cases under the influence of recoil. In tubular magazines this is an important consideration. I suggest that your previous method, using the forward lube groove, will be the most satisfactory.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

ok I was jus worried that it might stetch/wear out my cases sooner being that it crimp would bend more of the shell deeper

[Oklahoma Rebel]

ok I was jus worried that it might stetch/wear out my cases sooner being that it crimp would bend more of the shell deeper.thanks,
Travis

[Don Fischer]

I had to go look. My 9mm bullet's with the Lee die are crimped just behind the forward driving band.

[jcren]

You could taper crimp or use a Lee rifle style fcd.

[dtknowles]

I don't know how wide the driving bands are or what the best COL will be for your gun, I never had a 45-70 but I think crimping in the middle of a driving band works good. You have to have all your cases trimmed to the same length and keep the nose punch clean but with care you can hit the driving band close to the middle and get a good crimp.

Tim

[Oklahoma Rebel]

jcren I have a fcd, were you talking about crimping on the forward driving band, on forward grease groove?

[mdi]

jcren hit it, taper crimp on one of the bands or use a rifle style FCD (collet crimp)...

[Oklahoma Rebel]

ok, I will crimp them on the forward driving band, first I will set all the bullets to the right depth, without a crimp or maybe a very light one to get it started, then use my lee fcd to finish them off sounds about right? I wish this mold had a crimp groove. I like the hollow base and generous lube grooves. thanks guys!
Travis

[jcren]

The taper crimp will wedge the case mouth into the drive hand, the collet style will squeeze its own crimp groove into the bullet. Just set the taper crimp so that the very mouth of the case is a couple thousanths smaller than straight. And yes, make sure the mouth is over solid lead.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

yup, that's a big 10-4 good buddy!

[TenTea]

I recently tried that mold...so far, ok on paper at 100 but can do better (and will).

I'm lightly taper crimping on the front driving band but my ammo is for a single shot.

163815

[runfiverun]

if you use a case full of black powder [which that boolit is intended for] you don't gotta go through all these gyrations.

I'd just use the lube groove as a crimp point if the round will chamber at that depth.
you don't need all that lube anyway.

[MT Chambers]

Regardless of whether you want to waste money on a "crimp die", I would decide what oal is best for feeding and accuracy, then crimp with the die provided in your die set. I would not buy a mould to be used in Lever guns unless it has a proper crimp groove.

[Wayne Smith]

Five, ya beat me to it. BP is the way to go with this boolit - a full case of compressed FFG or FG under the boolit and it can't move backwards!

[Oklahoma Rebel]

A. don't got no black powder,B. will try it someday but want to play around with just reloading for now, and 3....lol I already have a lee FCD. I went ahead and crimped them on the forward driving band, which made the OAL slightly longer, a.k.a closer to the rifling, and accuracy is good, I have a new apperature on there, have onle shot two boxes with this type of sight, and was able to consistently hit a 3x5 card at 50 yards (as long as our backyard range goes) :( thanks for the help everyone!
Travis

[Hick]

I load cast in both my Winchester Model 94's with no crimp. When I expand the mouths with the M die I only expand the first millimeter or so at the entrance to the neck-- just enough to start the boolit. I leave the driving band outside the case a little so that it does not get compressed. The case tension seems more than adequate to keep the boolits from getting pushed into the case with recoil (I've looked a lot and never seen it happen).

[Oklahoma Rebel]

a crimp helps build up pressure bfore the bullet starts, creating more consistency shot to shot and for hunting bullets, esp. for hogs, I don't need the risk of a jam if I need a follow up or a shot at a second animal

[gwpercle]

I wonder why it does not have a crimp groove, the catalog lists it under 45-70 but with the hollow base and no crimp groove it looks more like a muzzle loading Minnie bullet. Strange !
I would be tempted to use the top lube groove and do a med crimp, just enough to roll under the top edge and give support to bullet set back in the tube. And if the boolit is sized .459 it should be a nice tight fit.
Gary

[paul edward]

If you use a heavy crimp, do not forget to occasionally anneal the mouths of those cases.

Some of the .44 Magnum cases that came with my SBH in 1965 have been loaded dozens of times. Every 6 to 10 loads they need to be annealed.

[gwpercle]

I saw a photo this morning, in Handgunner magazine, of a round loaded with a boolit that had 3 deep grease grooves and no crimp groove.
The top grease grove was used as the crimp groove. The case mouth was rolled just under the top edge into a medium - light crimp. Just enough so the boolit would not slide back into the case on recoil.
Gary

[mdi]

ok, I will crimp them on the forward driving band, first I will set all the bullets to the right depth, without a crimp or maybe a very light one to get it started, then use my lee fcd to finish them off sounds about right? I wish this mold had a crimp groove. I like the hollow base and generous lube grooves. thanks guys!
Travis
After you use an FCD on your cast loads, pull a few bullets and measure them. FCDs have a bad habit of swaging cast bullets down to unusable size. BTDT...

[JWT]

I wonder why it does not have a crimp groove, the catalog lists it under 45-70 but with the hollow base and no crimp groove it looks more like a muzzle loading Minnie bullet. Strange !
I would be tempted to use the top lube groove and do a med crimp, just enough to roll under the top edge and give support to bullet set back in the tube. And if the boolit is sized .459 it should be a nice tight fit.
Gary

This particular mold was made at the request of J.S Wolf to replicate the original arsenal loading for the 45/70 in the trapdoor springfield. It is intended for a full column of compressed balck powder and a firm taper crimp with a 20:1 (rifle) or 40:1 (carbine) alloy.