Ruger M44 accuracy question

[temac]

Hello all, I have the old Ruger auto in 44 mag and am having some accuracy issues with. I'm having a flier every now and again and it seems to happen moe often on a cold barrel than a hot one. The load is a 180 gr Rem. JHP over 30 gr. of H110with a Win. Mag. Pistol primer. The load shoots great in my Ruger srh and in my Contender. If it was a inch or so away from my group it would not concern me but it always shoots about 18" low and 4" to the right. It happened 3 times the other day. Other than that it groups about 3"-4" at a100 m. Has me thinking it's the crown barrel band seems tight and stock fit ok kinda got me scratching my head. Haven't tried any other loads in it and shot everything through a chrono with no extreme spreads, what do y'all think?

[Mica_Hiebert]

Sounds like it's shot... I'm prepared to offer you a very low price for it...

[Mica_Hiebert]

On a more serious note the action may be moving around in the stock under recoil maybe a little bedding is in order. Also check the barrel for the usual warped stock touching the bbl etc.

[MarkP]

One of the few guns I have sold, and yes I regret it. Mine shot about like yours at 4" ish. I did not have the fliers. Loose scope or faulty scope. My XP-100 in 350 Rem Mag all of a sudden started doing something similar a week before going on a elk hunt. Turned out it was the Burris Posi-lock scope. Sent it back; paperwork said they cleaned out some debris from internal mechanism. Had similar issues with same pistol and a Leupold scope, the scope was moving in the rings.

[temac]

Mica Hiebert, your a funny guy. When I get back home in a week I'm going to check that fit a little closer. Some bedding or wood removal might be in order but I'm not sure how to properly bed that type of action nor do I know anyone that attempted to do one. If it was my M1 carb. or my M1A I would easily find info on that. Mark I just so happened to be out there sighting in a scope I just put on it. Mounts are Weavers with some vertically split rings all were forked with a fat wrench with thread locker but that scope is a used Redfield 3-9 that came off another rifle of mine that I haven't shot in a while, huumm, it may be the culprit. I just put new rings and bases on my Contender and Super Redhawk at the same time. The SRH got a pair of Warne Ruger rings and a new Burris 2-7 because the factory Ruger rings were poorly aligned and dinged up the previous glass up. The Warne rings are super nice,a lot wider but vertically split wich are a pita to install. The Contender got a Bullberry base and some Weaver 4 screw rings pleased with that combo too, although the 2-7 Burris that was mounted in a pair of their Zee rings was badly dinged under the front ring. It's going back to Burris and replaced with their 3-12 AO. I really shot my budget with all that but it sounds like that Redfield on the M44 maybe the problem for it to shoot that flier in the same spot 3 times. Hope Redfield has the same policy Burris has cause I don't want to but another peice of glass. But rest assure if they don't fix it if that's the problem on day it's going to get a Burris cause those guys have always been more than fair with me. Any other input on that M44 is always welcome, thanks guys.

[pietro]

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It looks like your rifle isn't having an accuracy issue - instead it's suffering from a shifting POI.

Although the Ruger 44 Auto Carbine was designed around 240gr JSP factory ammo, mine shot 180gr slugs with about the same consistent accuracy as it shot the .240gr stuff.

It sounds like your rifle needs bedding, which is applied in only 2 places - under the barrel @ the tip of the stock, and behind the recoil block @ the rear of the receiver.

(the recoil block is held to the stock via a screw/hole through the buttstock, under the buttplate)

Both sides of the remainder of the barrel, and the sides of the action, along with the underside of the gas block, should have a (very) slight clearance.


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[temac]

Pietro sounds like you have had experience bedding one of these. When I bought my two M44's I took them apart gas piston out trigger housing etc. minimal at best and gave it a good cleaning. Now that I know what to look for and where to apply bedding compound what's the process? After taking the barrel band off and removing the block and the usual release agents where you don't want a bond how do I reassemble once the compound is applied. I'm sure I don't want to tighten everything down as usual. I'm hoping it's just the scope acting like the *** it is. I'm going to send it back to Redfield, and check mounts and ring set while I have it off. If the scope comes back with a repair problem I'll reinstall and ring it out to see if problem still exist. If it does I'll give the bedding a shot so advise me of the details. I want to use this thing to wack some hogs and it can't get the job done when it slings em 20" off zero on occasion. Thanks for the input.

[pietro]

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After properly bedding the rifle, it should be able to be re-assembled as normally.

I bed all rifles that have a rear recoil block like your Ruger (like the Win 88/100 & others) with the barreled action hooked into the recoil block before placing the assembly into the uncured bedding - which will ensure that the recoil block isn't bedded at an angle that would preclude a straight re-assembly of the metal parts (which can occur if the recoil block's bedded separately/apart from the remainder of the barreled action).

The job is far easier/simpler if the trigger group is removed from the barreled action prior to bedding (removing the action operating rod from the gas section is optional), and the prepared stock held level in the padded jaws of a bench vise.

The barrel band needn't be installed until after the bedding's cured - I use a rubber band, made from a bicycle tire inner tube, to hold the barreled action down tightly while the bedding cures.

How I ensure that the rifle can be re-assembled normally is by following a time-tested method:

1) Prior to glass-bedding, I apply a layer of yellow masking tape everywhere on the barreled action that requires a clearance, before the metal & tape are covered by a release agent (I use paste wax). This tape is removed after the bedding's fully cured, which creates the needed clearances in those areas.

2) Then, I lightly dig the stock material (wood) out from the areas that should have a tight fit, leaving a small pillar of the original wood in each area to support the barreled action in the uncured bedding. (Although un-necessary, the wood pillar can be dug out after the bedding's cured & more bedding applied there)

3) I also apply masking tape, treated with release agent, all along the exterior stock wood, in the areas that might allow some bedding compound to squeeze out when the barreled action's seated in the uncured bedding.

4) I would suggest covering every other metal surface, after the masking tape's applied to the specified areas ( anywhere metal's exposed to air) with the release agent of choice, since bedding compound can/will migrate any & every where during the bedding process.

I wear thin/disposable latex gloves (any WallyWorld or paint shop) all the time after the bedding compound's mixed & applied to the wood.

5) I would also suggest obtaining a few thin wooden (medical) tongue depressors (or popsicle sticks), and cut both ends of each stick at a 45-degree angle, with a likewise beveled edge, for removing any bedding compound that's migrated to the exterior of the stock wood or metal areas that are exposed when the metal's fully seated during the bedding process - but don't attempt to use the wooden scalpels until the bedding's cured an hour or two, upon pain of making an even bigger mess.

6) No matter what the bedding compound instructions say, I allow the bedding to fully cure ( overnite ).

If you find out later that you've made a mistake, the cured bedding can be removed, and the process redone.

If you have questions, please don't hesitate to PM me.



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[temac]

Also trigger work, got rid of one of these carbines and kept the one with the peep sight wish I had shot them before I sold it but this trigger is stiff and it has an audible nasty creep comes to a even harder spot and then breaks. Last gun I brought to a smith to have trigger work done it began to have hammer follow. Heard parts are scarce for these things so what's the safe remedy?

[temac]

Thanks Pietro step by step detailed instructions is what I need. Going to take me some time to get to it although. Going to send that scope off and eliminate that possibility. If that takes care of those crazy fliers it still may benefit some more from a little bedding so thanks for your input and advice. If I have any questions I'll PM you. Thanks to Mark as well.

[MarkP]

Have you shot it with iron sights? 20" off at 100 yds is huge.

[temac]

Yes, Mark I shave shot it with the irons. Not to the extent I did with the optics the other day and my vision ain't what it used to be that's why I scoped it. But I think I see where your going with this, didn't think about wringing it out with just the irons. Certainly would eliminate the optics and optics platform. Sometimes I need a little help to think outside of the box, that's why I love this site. A bunch of great advice, and some different points of view. Next time this thing goes to the range I have some work to do, looks like I gotta do some time with the Dillon, and look forward to a sore shoulder again. Now if someone could chime in on that 20lb trigger, it may become my favorite shooter. Thanks fellas.

[pietro]

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Serious care needs to be taken when fooling with the trigger of an autoloader, lest a fully-automatic rifle (aka: machinegun) be created.

If you feel that you're up to fully dis-assembling (and re-assembling) the various parts in the trigger group/housing, I would advise only a light polishing of the trigger/hammer sear surfaces.

A little smoothing (and polish/lubing the various pivot points) will go a long way towards making the trigger feel lighter (even though the trigger pull isn't really made lighter).


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[temac]

Hey guys update on the carbine checked scope mounts rings all look good, removed action from stock and found crack in front of mag tube port. Going to repair and refinish and bed. Keep y'all posted on outcome, thanks.

[MarkP]

Keep us posted

[W.R.Buchanan]

How about a Peep Sight on the back instead of the scope. That way you don't have to question if the scope is bad or not.

The gun is a 150 yard gun in most cases and any one can learn to shoot Iron Sights to that distance with a little practice.

(Incidentally a low power scope (2-3X) or Red Dot Sight would be more than adequate on that gun.)

I have old eyes just like everybody else here and I learned how to do it, to the point that I can hit a pie plate at 200 yards with virtually every shot off a rest.

I hear the Old Eyes Excuse here and elsewhere way too much. People got lazy when decent scopes became available and stopped using iron sights. But that doesn't mean that they are any less viable than they always were. Virtually all Military Firearms have Iron Sights?

Before 1960 the vast majority of hunting rifles only had Iron Sights as scopes were too expensive.

Does anyone actually think that the "Old Eyes" that they had before 1960 were better than the Old Eyes we have now? And neither were the scopes.

My Gawd,,, the eyeglasses we have now are so far superior to the ones available in 1960 it is ridiculous. We have progressive lenses now, they had Bifocals...

I shoot the vast majority of my guns with Iron Sights. I wear progressive lens glasses when I shoot.

If you aren't wearing Progressive Lenses for shooting you need to get your **** down to the local Costco and get an Eye Exam and buy a new pair of glasses.

Then you need to learn how to focus on the Front Sight! Old Eyes work just fine for that as the Front Sight is only 2-3 feet in front of you.

Really you can do it,,, all you have to do is practice.

Randy

[temac]

Yes, she is wearing a factory peep. Although better than a leaf it still is not like glass. Haven't had the time to jack with it, my neighbor refinishes furniture and when he comes back from vacation I'm going to have him strip the stock it takes him about 5 min. to do one. Then stain,repair,refinish and bed. Found a fella of the Ruger forum to do trigger pac. She ought to be GTG then if not I'm getting a lever gun.

[temac]

Hello all, just a update. I've removed it from stock and took hardware off stock my last time in I played w/ my M1A. Finally replaced my case trimmer after Hurricane Katrina engulfed mine. So get to do some rifle stuff after a 10yr break. I work 2 weeks on and1 off at the moment. So next week should have the stock dipped. Keep y'all posted.

[temac]

Update, repaired crack that ran from loading port forward, stripped, stained, and refinished stock. Bedded recoil lug and very end of stock. Removed wood from under gas block as it was resting there. Replaced scope and zeroed at 25M to get on paperit was all over. At a 100m couldn't get on 12"x12" paper. The barrel band sits directly over the forward end of the gas block so I'm going to bed that area and try again. Then remove bedding forward of barrel band and try that. If that don't get it I'm going to throw it over the fence!

[shoot-n-lead]

Glad you are willing to do all of this...hopefully you will make it right. I wanted a 44 carbine for years and finally got one in the mid 80's. I screwed with that gun for 2yrs...accuracy and magazine problems made me sell it and buy a lever. I have never missed that albatross, not a single day. One of the most frustrating experiences that I have ever had, with a gun. It was gone and good riddance has been my only thought about it. I guess I was intrigued by the concept of that gun, but the reality of dealing with it's short stock, dismal accuracy and phantom mag problems, did away with the intrigue, permanently. When I see the prices these newbie's pay for them, now...I can only laugh.

They stopped making them because there was no market for them...and there were very valid reasons why there was no market for them.

Good luck with yours.

[pietro]

They stopped making them because there was no market for them...and there were very valid reasons why there was no market for them.




With all due respect, not really............................. Since Ruger was into their investment casting for most of their products, and the original .44 Auto Carbine required a lot of machining, it was discontinued due to the rising production costs vs what they could reasonably be sold for.

Today, most of the repair parts needed for one are made of unobtainium - especially the TG housing (which forward ears hold everything tightly together).

IME, cartridge feeding problems arose when the TG housing's forward attachment ears cracked and/or broke off - which allows the forward end of the TG housing (and the cartridge feed mechanism) to float ILO being anchored solidly.

The following .44 Auto Carbine (the 99/44 Deerfield), being based on Ruger's Mini-14, had fewer issues, but IMHO failed in the marketplace because it was made with a non-walnut hardwood stock & a plastic/fantastic operating rod (safety) cover atop the rear half of the barrel - abhorrent to those traditionalists originally interested/attracted to idea of an auto-loading .44 Magnum rifle.



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