Percussion Revolver Accessory Bag?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

This might sound like an odd question. What do you use to haul all the accessories required to load and maintain your C&B revolvers while at the range? After several years I just got back into C&B revolver shooting with a Uberti Walker. Loads of fun, but all the various accessories (powder flask, caps, capper, nipple wrench, pick, tube of grease, lead balls, screw driver, etc.) need something better then a used flat rate card board box. Are there any cool, (ideally period correct) leather bags to organize all the stuff?

[Walkingwolf]

This might sound like an odd question. What do you use to haul all the accessories required to load and maintain your C&B revolvers while at the range? After several years I just got back into C&B revolver shooting with a Uberti Walker. Loads of fun, but all the various accessories (powder flask, caps, capper, nipple wrench, pick, tube of grease, lead balls, screw driver, etc.) need something better then a used flat rate card board box. Are there any cool, (ideally period correct) leather bags to organize all the stuff?

I had a carpet bag, no longer have it now.

[Pine Baron]

I have a home made suede leather pouch with pull string, that hangs on my belt. Girl friend embroidered my name on it, very cool.

[adrians]

I tote my stuff around in an NRA metal carry case,,, :guntootsmiley:

[mooman76]

Not PC but I use a tackle box. Plenty of room and compartments for accessories.

[ian45662]

Here is what I carry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlvNpPYHXzE

[Mr Peabody]

Tackle box for me too

[sixshootertexan]

I have a Stack-On plastic tool box.

[wyofool]

I use a Stanley Tool box.163241163242163243163240

[Omnivore]

The gun in a holster, a 100 round snail capper around my neck, a 40 round cartridge box on my belt, ear plugs around my neck, and absolutely nothing else (OK, maybe an additional box of paper cartridges in my pocket). The cartridges contain lube pills, which keep the bore clean and the gun running for as many shots as you'd want to fire in a day.

The notion of toting a tackle box full of accessories, laying it all out on a buffet table (essentially setting up camp) is fine, but it is totally unnecessary.

Keeping it simple in the field means less hassle, total mobility and more fun.

At least understand that it can be done very simply, and make a conscious choice of which way you want to go.

Included are photos of the belt box, one type of storage box, and me with my total suite of "Field Carry" accessories as I load a cartridge into a chamber.
163292163293

[2ndAmendmentNut]

The gun in a holster, a 100 round snail capper around my neck, a 40 round cartridge box on my belt, ear plugs around my neck, and absolutely nothing else (OK, maybe an additional box of paper cartridges in my pocket). The cartridges contain lube pills, which keep the bore clean and the gun running for as many shots as you'd want to fire in a day.

The notion of toting a tackle box full of accessories, laying it all out on a buffet table (essentially setting up camp) is fine, but it is totally unnecessary.

Keeping it simple in the field means less hassle, total mobility and more fun.

At least understand that it can be done very simply, and make a conscious choice of which way you want to go.

Included are photos of the belt box, one type of storage box, and me with my total suite of "Field Carry" accessories as I load a cartridge into a chamber.
163292163293

Very cool! Would you mind explaining, or perhaps posting a link to the steps involved in making paper cartridges?

I like the thought of keeping things lighter and simpler.

[Omnivore]

There are many ways of making the cartridges, as there were also back in the day. I found the system detailed on the capandball channel on Youtube to be excellent, and then I modified it for my own purposes, and to make it a little simpler. It results in a strong case that won't leak powder grains and is easy to load. Watch his first;

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLIGg3pcPWcaLm2YWlzLjtU-D-P74N667d&v=-2HUcfAyaaQ

and then mine;

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_JIyc6s8fnQ

The only part of the process that I'd consider challenging is making your rolling mandrel to fit your powder charge. I used a belt sander to make mine, though I suppose a lathe would be better. The specs given are for a 30 grain charge of black powder or an equal volume of a BP substitute. You want the ball or bullet to tighten up in the paper tube at the same time it tightens up against the powder. This isn't terribly demanding, as the perm paper will stretch to some degree. I find that my particular mandrel gives me cases that fit better with 32 grains of powder, and so you see that you can tweak both the mandrel taper and the powder charge to make things fit nicely.

Once you get the process down, it goes fairly quickly. I'll often sit down for a few minutes of a morning and crank out 10 to 20 cartridges, or just make up 30 to 50 paper cases for later loading. The powder measure you see me using (the Lee Perfect Powder Measure in this case) made things a lot faster, and also provides a much more consistent powder charge. There are powder measure though, and then are black powder measure. Apparently it's a safety issue, but Lee says that theirs is good "for all types of powder".

Search Youtube and you'll find a bunch of cartridge making videos.

All that being said, some guns take cartridges easily, and others seem to have been made to discourage the use of cartridges. Italian Colt repros are rather hostile to cartridge use, and you'd want to modify the loading cutout in the barrel. Original Colts took cartridges pretty well (it was the predominant loading method from the Civil War on) but for some reason the Italians can't be bothered with such details as correct shapes and contours.

Also, the Lee 200 grain conical (Lee mold # 450-200-1R) I use in my video won't load into most Pietta Remingtons unless you open up the loading cutout in the frame. Ubertis are much better that way, but the Pietta modification isn't difficult. You should be able to insert the bullet in a chamber and then rotate it under the loading plunger without any interference. Colts are a little more tricky with conicals, but look closely at photos of original guns and you'll see how they provide more room for loading than any of the repros. You can of course make round ball cartridges with my method, and those load more easily in an Italian repro, but repro Colts are often still a problem unless you fix the gun first. Let me know if you need more info on fixing a Colt repro so it will load like an original.

To my way of thinking, some up-front investment in time is well worth it for the benefits you reap in the field. During those long winter nights or periods of bad weather you can make up a lot of cartridges, or spend some time getting your guns to work right.

[Mk42gunner]

Its not period correct, but a 50 cal ammo can is useful for a lot of shooting related things.

Omnivore, a couple of questions on your process.

You said no problems using perm paper for the bottom piece, so I guess the caps are strong enough to burn through it, right?

On your cartridge box. Is it just drilled 1x2 glued offset and covered by a leather box? Seems like that would work to me.

When I find perm paper I am going to try making cartridges for both the .36 and .44, probably using round balls to start since I have them already.

Robert

[Omnivore]

MK42; I wouldn't say the cap "burns through" the paper so much as it blasts through. That little itty bitty drop of compound in the cap is a high explosive which, in my understanding, means a super sonic wave front. Whatever; no problem there whatsoever.

Also, the paper bursts as you seat the load, filling out the chamber, so as far as I know there's usually powder exposed at or near the flash hole in there. Regardless; with the paper and BP carts I don't notice any ignition delay, as often happens when I use the Pyrodex pellets. I've tried a number of carts made with T7 powder and that works good also

There are of course many ways to make a cartridge box. Here's a photo of mine. It's a Poplar wood block, two 3/4" layers laminated gross grained, routed using a 90 degree V cutter to make the "terraces", with holes drilled at 45 degrees. It holds 40 cartridges of the "pull tab" variant in four rows of ten. You can see the pencil lines on the end, showing how the holes are oriented in the wood. I had the leather box made my Mike116, a fellow in Colorado. It has belt loops riveted onto the back. One could of course make it with a shoulder strap. There are some minor details I would change, but that one works well as it is. I'm currently in the process of making several more, to see how it goes.

[Mk42gunner]

Thanks for the answers. I knew burn wasn't the word I wanted, it was more brisance. I also never considered the paper cartridge being "pre burst" for lack of a better term.

The routing of the block makes sense, but since my trim router's depth stop gave up the ghost and I still have working saws, planes and a miter box; I am going to try the 1x2's.

Unfortunately my buddy that makes furniture (and has an overhand router) moved across the state.

Robert

[pietro]

.


I use several (I have frontstuffers is various calibers) milsurp/G.I. steel ammo boxes (labeled for gun make or bore size) wherein I keep/tote each frontstuffer's "stuff".

Each ammo can contains the BP, ignitors (flints or caps), boolits, loading tools, bore cleaners & whatever, dedicated to a particular frontstuffer.

If I go hunting, each hunting frontstuffer's ammo can stays (temporarily) in my vehicle.


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[bedbugbilly]

I have two old wood drawers that came out of the cabinet for an old Singer treadle sewing machine. Bought them for $3 each at an antique store. Took the pulls off and ran a 1" wide leather strap from end to end. They work great for me - holds my flask, ball bag, grease tin, measures, caps, etc. and are just the right size.

Another thing I've used is my old tarred haversack that I used for many years when shooting N-SSA. Period correct and holds more than enough of the supplies needed.

[swathdiver]

This might sound like an odd question. What do you use to haul all the accessories required to load and maintain your C&B revolvers while at the range?


I started out carrying a .50 caliber ammo can. It would hold everything but the sixgun (unless shooting a short barrel or Colt Pocket Revolver) and targets.


Course, that don't look right! So we made a crate out of 2 sheets of pine boards (1x12x96). It is sized internally to hold 3 .50cal ammo cans or 12 inches deep, 19 inches wide and 8 inches high on the inside. It has cleats top and bottom for stacking and rope handles. The inside is reconfigurable, but usually one side holds a tool tray (6"x12") which holds all the accoutrements and tools needed and the other side has a 2x4 with cutouts for the stocks of the pistols to set into. It can hold from 5 to 13 sixguns depending on which 2x4s with the cutouts we use and the loading stands and Tower of Power go in the middle and are under and over the gun barrels if depending on how many stands we need that day. The targets now ride inside the box, as many as we desire!


I have seen crates like this from the victorian era but they were more common with the cleats during the middle 20th century. Indeed, ours is modelled after a WW2 crate that I own that was used to store an oil pump of some kind and was made in Belgium during the war for the American Army. It however has large metal brackets on the sides and long bent strap hinges on the outside which I have not seen anywhere else.


We've since built a number more to store our various shooting related items and use brass, leather, steel, or even snipe hinges with nylon dock line for the handles or the old style twisted hemp that looks more period correct but harder on the hands when the crates are full. They are glued and screwed and coated with BLO, given a name and then put to work. Future crates will make use of cut nails. They have held up well and are heirlooms to pass on, not junk to discard, when I'm gone. My children have helped make each of them.


We used to use medicine bottles to hold our home cast conicals and round balls but now all reside in deer skin pouches sized to hold about 80 rounds of .44 caliber round ball. These are put in the center or right side of the crate on the bottom to help balance it out when we've got 3 or more shootin' irons.

[Outpost75]

All of what you guys use is fine for range use. I use my Ruger Old Army to hunt with and in the field take a different approach. All the revolver gear for a day's hunt is carried in a surplus German army "bread bag."

Caps are pre-loaded into a Ted Cash capper.

24 lead round balls are carried in a zipper leather change purse from Vermont Country Store.

Grease (50-50- Goya Manteca and beeswax) and a wooden Dixie Cup stick to spread it are carried in an empty Skoal snuff can.

Powder for about 3-4 cylinder reloads (40 grains of Swiss 3Fg per round, 1000 fps from 7-1/2" barrel) is carried in a CVA pistol flask.

In a tobacco pouch in bread bag to organize contents are a Ruger nipple wrench, spare nipple, .45 brush, loop jag tip, small sewing machine oil can and an empty CCI cap can repurposed to hold a dozen patches pre-wetted with Hoppes Nine Plus, another cap can with dry patches, nipple pick and a can of Ronson or Zippo lighter fluid for degreasing fired cylinders before reloading.

In loop sewn inside bag flap is carried an 8" USGI .45 pistol rod with wool .45 bore mop lightly wet with Hoppe's Nine Plus to wipe the bore between reloads.

Most used is an oiled NAPA mechanic's rag used to keep the bag contents from rattling during a stalk and for wiping off the revolver after firing and loading.

Last is a USGI Mil-K-818 pocket knife to dress my deer.

This rig has netted 12 deer over 20 years and works for me. At archery deer stand stand range within 25 yards Ruger Old Army is effective and after TEOTWAWKI you could feed yourself.

Separately I carry a small individual first aid and survival kit, a separate subject altogether, but if folks are interested I can post picture and list of contents.

K.I.S.S. principle.

[Texantothecore]

I have found that an Altoid tin box holds a days worth of paper charges and may actually be period correct. Altoids go waaaaay back.

[sixshootertexan]

I'm going to have to make some paper cartridges. Loading single shots doesn't bother me but for some reason the revolvers do. I guess because it takes to long to load then you shoot them up so fast. This may make them more enjoyable.

[BlackPowderBen]

Paper cartridges do come in handy.

[marlin39a]

Plastic ammo box from Walmart. Less than 5 bucks.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

There are many ways of making the cartridges, as there were also back in the day. I found the system detailed on the capandball channel on Youtube to be excellent, and then I modified it for my own purposes, and to make it a little simpler. It results in a strong case that won't leak powder grains and is easy to load. Watch his first;

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLIGg3pcPWcaLm2YWlzLjtU-D-P74N667d&v=-2HUcfAyaaQ

and then mine;

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_JIyc6s8fnQ

The only part of the process that I'd consider challenging is making your rolling mandrel to fit your powder charge. I used a belt sander to make mine, though I suppose a lathe would be better. The specs given are for a 30 grain charge of black powder or an equal volume of a BP substitute. You want the ball or bullet to tighten up in the paper tube at the same time it tightens up against the powder. This isn't terribly demanding, as the perm paper will stretch to some degree. I find that my particular mandrel gives me cases that fit better with 32 grains of powder, and so you see that you can tweak both the mandrel taper and the powder charge to make things fit nicely.

Once you get the process down, it goes fairly quickly. I'll often sit down for a few minutes of a morning and crank out 10 to 20 cartridges, or just make up 30 to 50 paper cases for later loading. The powder measure you see me using (the Lee Perfect Powder Measure in this case) made things a lot faster, and also provides a much more consistent powder charge. There are powder measure though, and then are black powder measure. Apparently it's a safety issue, but Lee says that theirs is good "for all types of powder".

Search Youtube and you'll find a bunch of cartridge making videos.

All that being said, some guns take cartridges easily, and others seem to have been made to discourage the use of cartridges. Italian Colt repros are rather hostile to cartridge use, and you'd want to modify the loading cutout in the barrel. Original Colts took cartridges pretty well (it was the predominant loading method from the Civil War on) but for some reason the Italians can't be bothered with such details as correct shapes and contours.

Also, the Lee 200 grain conical (Lee mold # 450-200-1R) I use in my video won't load into most Pietta Remingtons unless you open up the loading cutout in the frame. Ubertis are much better that way, but the Pietta modification isn't difficult. You should be able to insert the bullet in a chamber and then rotate it under the loading plunger without any interference. Colts are a little more tricky with conicals, but look closely at photos of original guns and you'll see how they provide more room for loading than any of the repros. You can of course make round ball cartridges with my method, and those load more easily in an Italian repro, but repro Colts are often still a problem unless you fix the gun first. Let me know if you need more info on fixing a Colt repro so it will load like an original.

To my way of thinking, some up-front investment in time is well worth it for the benefits you reap in the field. During those long winter nights or periods of bad weather you can make up a lot of cartridges, or spend some time getting your guns to work right.

Really appreciate the videos. I'll have to give paper cartridges a try. I really like the twisted rat tail you use for ease of loading. Have you ever had an issue with the lube cookie migrating into the powder?

[Omnivore]

Have you ever had an issue with the lube cookie migrating into the powder?

Not so far. I've had Borebutter seriously degrade the powder after leaving wads soaked with the stuff (and similar lube from Traditions) after leaving a gun loaded for days. The Gatofeo #1 lube pills I now use in the cartridges haven't been an issue so far. If you’re shooing them up right away it’s not an issue regardless – It’s all about temperature and time. I’ve used the GF1 pill cartridges weeks and even months after making them with no apparent issue there.

However; in hot real weather GF1 may soften enough to degrade the powder charge over time. I have a case of 100 of these cartridges I made a year ago, storing them in a hot room during the hot summer last year. I will be taking them out to measure velocities over the chronograph sometime this spring, comparing the old carts to fresh ones of the same specs. Then we'll see.

One way to combat any such contamination, if it should be an issue, would be to use a card between the powder and the lube pill. Another would be to use one of the "Big Lube" type bullets (having a huge lube groove in the bullet, away from the powder). The pill works especially well in fouling mitigation though, so I'm going to give it as much of a chance as I can. If I use a card it will have to be a custom size, because the .450" cards I got commercially are slightly too big and thus interfere a bit with cartridge insertion. The tapered cartridge would call for a card that's slightly smaller than chamber diameter, so the cartridge can plunk right in without having to shove the card past the chamber mouth. Pushing the bullet into the lube pill, which in turn pushes on the card, can have undesirable effects. I have tried it.

Also; the load I used in the video (30 grains black, the pill and a Lee 450-200-1R bullet) is slightly too much for one of my Pietta Remingtons (It takes a LOT of pressure to get the tip of the bullet below the cylinder face). It fits one Pietta fine, but not the other, indicating differences in chamber volume from the factory. In that case you can use a shorter bullet such as the Accurate Molds 45-200S, etc., or shorten the case forming mandrel slightly from the small end, once you've cut it to spec., to reduce its powder volume. That would leave a shorter cartridge overall, with less powder, and a slightly larger small end, if you get my meaning. If your chambers hold the load OK and you want to use less powder, you can make up the volume difference using a filler such as corn meal, Cream of Wheat or semolina, and that would also serve to *help* keep the lube off of the powder.

The specs for the forming mandrel given by capandball indicate powder and bullet only, and thus it would fit into a Colt Army or most any 44 revolver, but adding the lube pill increases the volume of stuff you're putting into the chamber. So the pill cart I showed will max out some 44 chambers if the bullet is of a design that is on the long side. Lighter, or more compact bullets solve the problem though, so long as your gun's loading cutout can be made to fit them.

So you see we're sort of designing the load for the gun at the same time we're modifying the gun for the load. But the up-front effort is well worth it in the field, once you've got it all working. Or so it seems to me-- Others will have different thoughts.

The twist tail serves two purposes only. It makes it easy to pluck carts from the type of belt box I use, and it keeps the cart together without using glue on the bullet (making the manufacture of the carts easier and less messy). Otherwise, they are torn off as soon as the bullet heel is in the gun's chamber. That tiny extra required motion during loading, and the bits of paper remaining outside the chamber after seating the bullet, are well worth it to me for the added convenience that the cartridges offer, especially when looking at their place in the overall "field carry" system.

[sixshootertexan]

Made some paper cartridges for my .36 to test in the morning if it's not raining.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/sixshootertexan/20160318_211525_zpsbx03tnbj.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/sixshootertexan/media/20160318_211525_zpsbx03tnbj.jpg.html)