Wide meplat molds

[repeat]

Hi guys I joined today and am trying to get back into casting and have bought almost all I need to get started.
I have used the Garrett Hammerheads and they kill right now!I was so impressed that I want to make my own bullets and not drive them so fast.
I have looked at the list for what I'm looking for on this site and can't seem to find anything on the subject yet.
I'm looking for a wide meplat mold for a 45/70 like the Garrett Hammerhead bullets and maybe later a 45 LC mold.
Who makes them and am I able to order such a mold?
Thanks

[5Shot]

LBT, probably can get something from Accurate too.

[Greg S]

Well, welcome abourd. For the WFN for pistol, Lee is about the best in design for a factory mass produced mold. After that, you need to start looking at boutique mold makers like LBT, NOE and Accurrate. Check the Group buy discussions and active threads and maybe you can get in on a buy yourself. Also check out the Commercial Sector in the vendor sponsers section and the For Sale section and you might run across the mold you are looking for.

Accurate molds has an inventory of mold designs you can request one offs of instead of designing you own.

[repeat]

Thanks guys,I'll start checking them all out.
Since I live in Montana and can get to Idaho very easily I may just give the guys at LBT an email to see if they can make a mold close to the Hammerheads I have used in the past.
I have heard if you have too much meplat you can get bullets tumbling on its way to the target.
Any thoughts on that?

[shoot-n-lead]

Thanks guys,I'll start checking them all out.
Since I live in Montana and can get to Idaho very easily I may just give the guys at LBT an email to see if they can make a mold close to the Hammerheads I have used in the past.
I have heard if you have too much meplat you can get bullets tumbling on its way to the target.
Any thoughts on that?

NO need to reinvent the wheel...there are plenty of molds out there with plenty of meplat, that will shoot as accurately as you are capable of. Any of the mold makers, Lee or the customs, have them in their catalog.

[repeat]

While that is true enough I have shot several deer and a few hogs with a 350 gr jacketed and some 350 gr cast boolits in 45/70 and chased most of them.
I have yet to chase any animal(including a huge black bear)that was hit by a Garret Hammerhead.All died on the spot and there was always huge wound channel.
I thought the wide meplat bullet was the reason and thus wanted to duplicate that bullet but with less velocity as those Garrets hit hard on both ends and I'm getting older and am affected by super hard recoil.
I have a Lee cast mold for the 45/70 I bought several years ago and never used it and think it is a 300 or 350 gr mold.

[repeat]

The knowledge here is really nice.
I checked out the Lee pistol calibers molds and found a wide meplat bullet in both 44 and 45 I like.
Thanks guys

[shoot-n-lead]

The knowledge here is really nice.
I checked out the Lee pistol calibers molds and found a wide meplat bullet in both 44 and 45 I like.
Thanks guys

I am not big fan of 45colt, so I can't speak to it, but I know that Lee 310gr .44 bullet is a good one.

[repeat]

Thanks for the reply shoot-n-lead.
That was one of the molds I looked at.
I have been shooting commercial cast bullets for many many years and am just now getting back into casting.
In the early 70's I was told by "experts" that I could use wheel weights and it would be great.
I nearly ruined Marlin 30/30 and my pet hand gun a Colt Python.
The gunsmith I used took nearly a month to clean the lead out of the Python and I swore I would only shoot commercial cast bullets but I know more now than back then and feel with you folks help I can master the alloy game and make a bullet that will not lead a barrel.
I most likely will be asking a lot of questions about blending alloys to lead.
Thanks again for all you folks help.

[shoot-n-lead]

Thanks for the reply shoot-n-lead.
That was one of the molds I looked at.
I have been shooting commercial cast bullets for many many years and am just now getting back into casting.
In the early 70's I was told by "experts" that I could use wheel weights and it would be great.
I nearly ruined Marlin 30/30 and my pet hand gun a Colt Python.
The gunsmith I used took nearly a month to clean the lead out of the Python and I swore I would only shoot commercial cast bullets but I know more now than back then and feel with you folks help I can master the alloy game and make a bullet that will not lead a barrel.
I most likely will be asking a lot of questions about blending alloys to lead.
Thanks again for all you folks help.

Until you settle on an alloy for your loads and guns...wheel weights make great bullets. Anyone that tells you different does not really know what they are talking about. I have shot them almost exclusively, I am talking about tens of thousands and never had a single problem. The most important thing in preventing leading is proper bullet diameter for YOUR gun.

You are correct about the knowledge here, these guys know it all and will share their knowledge without hesitation...just ask them.

[dkf]

For 45-70 and other .458 calibers. I have an Accurate mold coming in 46-350VG and 46-405VG. Both have .370" metplats. They are a proven design and are available in heavier weights as well. LBT can cut them too.

[repeat]

dkf when you get your mold please let me know what you think of the bullets.
I need to slug my bore in my rifle to make sure of size but I am convinced the wide meplat bullets are responsible for all of my one shot kills.
The 45/70 is not known for long range shooting but I have killed deer,hogs and and 1 bull elk over 200 yards and all fell when the bullet hit its mark.
A large bear was not hit as I like but fell just the same.
Let me know what you think of the dropped bullets in that mold please
Thanks

[dkf]

This isn't my picture but this is what the 405gr plain based version looks like in 45-70.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm285/SDV10/image.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/SDV10/media/image.jpg.html)


If you want to try some bullets before buying the mold. Beartooth Bullets sells the pile driver in several weights, 350gr, 425gr and 525gr.

[repeat]

Thanks for the pic dkf and those look like they can get the job done.
I will order 50 and do some loading and check them out.
The reason I really wanted to get the Garrett sized meplat is from all the positive kills I have had.
If one would like to check it out go to Garrett website and read Randy Garrett's work on why he used the wide meplat bullets for his rounds.
I bought 3 boxes a long time ago and at 65.00 per box it set me back a bunch and now those Hammerheads are now around 90.00 a box now.
Like I stated I can't shoot those hot dogs any longer.
I''ll order some Pile Drivers and check them out.

[repeat]

shoot-n-lead you have used just wheel weights with no leading?

[repeat]

dfk I really like those pile drivers and will order some later this month.Thats a huge Meplat.
Question:Is there a possibility of too much Meplat and what are the consquences of one that is too big.
Any thoughts?

[Irascible]

In my minimal experience with wide meplat designs, I found that they NEED to be driven fast and hard to achieve accuracy.

[dkf]

One of the biggest negatives to a large metplat is that the bullet is not very aerodynamic. Thus they are not well suited to long ranges. Good thing is the 45-70 isn't pushing the bullets too fast to begin with, especially heavy cast bullets. The 45-70 is more of a short range thumper anyway so really a heavy cast bullet with a big metplat is right up its alley.

The 540gr Garrett Hammerhead has a metplat of .360", the 420gr is .330". The piledrivers have a .370" metplat so it is fairly close.

[repeat]

Here is the best explanation I have read of a good meplat bullet from Mountain Moldshttp://www.mountainmolds.com/helpMetplat.gifMeplat refers to the flat nose (and for now, flat noses are the only kind I make). It is expressed as a percentage of bullet diameter. For example, a 0.300" meplat on a 0.432" bullet would be 70%. A 70% meplat is similar to what some call a "Long Flat Nose" except now you can make the nose as long or as short as you like. An 80% meplat is similar to what some call a "Wide Flat Nose". Bigger meplats punch bigger holes in the target, but may not feed in some guns and may be more difficult to stabilize, just depending on the gun and the load and the range. Smaller meplats are more likely to be accurate but are less effective on game. A 70% meplat is a great compromise, usually accurate yet adequate on game.

[repeat]

dkf I tried to order some pile drivers on Beartooth website but a note came up saying they were presently filling back orders or something like that so I'll wait until I hear how well you like them and how well they work in a lever action rifle.
Irascible makes a good point about driving them fast so I may stick to 350 gr Pile Driver Jr type bullets real fast and see how accurate they are as well as seeing if they function in my Marlin lever 1895.
I'm getting old and shooting the 540 gr bullets at high velocity will be no fun at all for this old man.

[MT Chambers]

LBT wrote the book on those bullet designs, I find that a bullet with too wide a meplat may not feed as well in leverguns.

[shoot-n-lead]

shoot-n-lead you have used just wheel weights with no leading?

For the most part, that is the ONLY alloy I use...with absolutely no problems.

Just a question, but why would wheel weights lead more than other alloy's?

Start a new thread and ask that question...you will find that almost everyone on this forum will say the same thing.

[repeat]

I started using commercial lead cast bullets and had no leading what so ever but when I melted the wheel weights from where I worked and cast 158 gr lead bullets in my Python I had issues and just figured the problem was soft wheel weights and when it happened in my Marlin 30/30 I felt the problem was too soft lead from wheel weights for sure.Back in 1973-1976 I did not know a lot about slugging a barrel.
I sized both Ruger BH and Colt Python to .359.
Now that you mention it I had very little leading in the Ruger but almost ruined a great handgun the Colt Python.My hardness was a little over 5 and some were close to 7 on the hardness scale.
I'm trying to learn enough that I don't harm anymore guns.
By the way I met Elmer Keith at a gunshow in Houston back in the early 70's.I wished I could have picked his brain but there a lot of folks here that know quite a bit too.

[repeat]

MT Chambers I spoke to someone at LBT and heard the exact same thing.
I also learned that I needed to run a Meplat around 70-73% and anymore I may not be able chamber a round as easily and could have rounds keyholing depending the gun.
I'm still trying to get my cast bullet's around 11 to 12 on the hardness scale to match Elmer Keith's cast bullets that he drove to 1400 fps and no leading problems.
I own a Cabin Tree Hardness setup.Back in the early to mid 70's I had a gunsmith do my hardness testing and I think it was a little tougher to get an exact number as he always gave me a range and not a single number.
Thanks for all the reply's and I'm learning.

[reloader28]

The hardness was 5 and 7 BHN???
That sounds very fishy right there for clip on WW. Mine come out at 14BHN and my soft water pipe is 4 or 5. My 50/50/2% are about 9.


I rechecked and the 50/50/2 are 10.5

[Chris C]

just figured the problem was soft wheel weights and when it happened in my Marlin 30/30 I felt the problem was too soft lead from wheel weights for sure.


Two things for you to consider: First, leading from softer bullets can be alleviated by using the proper lubricant. Second, leading can be alleviated by shooting at lower velocities.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I've been shooting the Ranch Dog 460-350 in my Shiloh Sharps and Marlin 1895 Cowboy. Feeds flawlessly in the Marlin. In my alloy (soft, .22 rimfire range recovery) it weights 262 gr. NOE is now producing the Ranch Dog molds. I also have the same design in 425 gr, but have not loaded any since the 350 works so good for me.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=71_72&products_id=280&osCsid=351qs94utm0elm2ode1mi6rrn6

[Lead Fred]

Ranch Dog's moulds were designed for the Marlin lever, they are all I use in levers.

[repeat]

Reloader 28 back in the early to mid 70's I didn't have a lead hardness tester but my gunsmith had a way of testing them and said my wheel weights were too soft to shoot at 1000 fps and said it was between 5-7 BHN and since I had almost ruined 2 firearms I figured he was right.
Looking back we may have cooked the wheel weights too long in the pot and lost some of the tin and antimony,not sure but I know I paid a gunsmith a high price to get the lead out of a Python and a Marlin 336 in 30/30.At that time I had an endless supply of w w lead and didn't know about water quenching and antimony addition.
I do have a brinnel hardness tester now and I won't shoot 5-9 hardness ever again at any velocity.
Rattlesnake Charlie that looks like a great mold.I talked to someone at LBT molds and am considering that mold but the NOE looks like a mold with the meplat I am looking for.Thanks

[repeat]

Thanks Chris C.I kept the velocities close to 1000 fps for a 158 gr cast bullet but after the Python problem I backed them down for the Ruger Blackhawk.I used a lubri-sizer that was loaned to me and I paid for the lubricate sticks to put in it.The name of the lubri-sizer is one that I have not seen in many years but it worked well.

[repeat]

Reloader 28 I just received some wheel weights melted into ingots and none were 14.You must be doing yours yourself and not cooking too long.
Back in the 60's and early 70's the lead was so soft that I could cut the ends off to make a lessor weight wit a small pair of dikes.On the lead I just melted down to smaller ingots could not be cut the corners so the lead back in the good old days had to be softer.
The local tire shop confirmed that.They are only people that have been in business for that long,well over 40 years.
Rattlsnake Charlie I am falling in love with the Ranch Dog molds.LBT has the original design for the Garrett 425 gr bullets but I like the idea that I can load 350 gr bullets with a wide meplat.

[reloader28]

Out of curiosity, were they clip on weights?
What did they measure and were they fresh ingots or a month old?

[repeat]

reloader 28 thanks for the reply.The wheel weights I got was from ebay and they had them into 5-6 pound bars.I'm sure they have been sitting around for some time.
I got 30 pounds worth.The bars was to thick for my cabin tree hardness tester.When I melted 2 down I put them into ingots and tested the ingots and they were running around 11 and some 12.Just what I wanted.
By the way,why are some bullets I casted are silver looking and others for a different caliber are not shiny like the others?Did I cook all the tin out?
I' trying to learn but there sure is a lot you guys know that I don't and I need to play catch up before I do too much.
Thanks for all of you folks help

[reloader28]

I'll bet those ingots harden up some in a month. Fresh cast is softer than month old.

I think you have to get pretty hot to cook out the tin. I'm betting that by changing the calibers the heat temps are varying. I change my Lee pot temp a little for every different mold. Meaning this mold runs better at say 6 1/2 and this casting speed and another mold runs better at 7 and a little slower or faster casting speed.
My boolits are usually just a touch satin color. If my mold is not up to temp it drops them shiny, I cast faster.
If it drops them frosty, everything is to hot for me. I drop the pot temp and cast slower.
The slowest for me is the 44 and 45 cal big Lee 300+gr RF 2 cavity. I run the pot as low as I can and cast sloooow to keep it from being to hot. Even tried cooling the mold with a damp cloth. They just stay hot.
My fastest is a 6 cavity 100gr Ranch Dog 380 boolit. I can easily make over 2000 boolits in 3 hours with that one.

I know others would have different answers, but this is what I do and it works for me. Unless its a hunting or self defense boolit, I use just straight air cooled COWW with no extra tin added. I figure out how to make it work without the added expense of extra tin.

[repeat]

reloader28 you have answered my questions 100% and then some.I can see that I'm casting way to hot on my Lee melting pot(bottom pour).I will back it down.
My castings for the 45/70 is frosty.I will put them back into the pot and re-melt them at a lower setting.I
I'm sold on that Ranch Dog mold and will order one soon.
One more question for the seasoned casters,what lube do you use?I don't have access to the one I used back in the early 70's.
I sure do appreciate all the suggestions everyone here has given me.Thanks a bunch!

[dkf]

I've been pan lubing with a 50/50 mix of BAC and Carnuba Red from White Label Lubes. I have the NOE made version of the 350gr Ranch Dog. It has small conventional style lube grooves vs tumble lube grooves so it will work well with stick lubes.

http://www.lsstuff.com/store/

The Lee pot will keep gaining temperature as the pot goes down without a PID control. I often have turn mine down while I'm casting.

[40-82 hiker]

reloader28 you have answered my questions 100% and then some.I can see that I'm casting way to hot on my Lee melting pot(bottom pour).I will back it down.
My castings for the 45/70 is frosty.I will put them back into the pot and re-melt them at a lower setting.I
I'm sold on that Ranch Dog mold and will order one soon.
One more question for the seasoned casters,what lube do you use?I don't have access to the one I used back in the early 70's.
I sure do appreciate all the suggestions everyone here has given me.Thanks a bunch!

While you may be casting too hot, a frosty boolit is not necessarily a sign of too much heat. When I cast with COWW plus 2% tin I get my best fill out when my mold and alloy are just hot enough to frost the boolits.

Also, as others have stated, PLEASE get away from the thought that COWW lead is inferior in any way. Geez, it's just lead, antimony, a little tin, and a little arsenic. In fact, in quite a number of ways COWWs are a great alloy. They water harden very nicely, the antimony content is right to balance with additional tin, it is still around (though getting scarcer), and it is very good for quite a wide range of velocities. It might be too hard to obturate at low pressures, if at all, but it is what it is. If you need obturation, use a different alloy. As you will learn on this site, above all, boolit fit and lube rules the day.

I'm still learning cast boolit doctrine. But, we're at the right place to do it!

[Edward]

Lees 405 gr FN under $30.00 will kill any thing walking sized properly ,and pointed in the right direction :bigsmyl2:

[Lloyd Smale]

ballistic cast used to make a 540 grain gas checked copy of that mold. I have one. Not cheap but you get what you pay for for sure with one of there molds.

[Bigslug]

Repeat,

Take a look at the NOE 460-405 RF: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=42

It's got a nice .341" nose, has proven very accurate to a hundred yards in several guns, and, at about 1600fps, while not super-scientific, is the single most destructive force I have ever seen applied to a milk jug. The meplat definitely makes its presence known!

[reloader28]

I have that NOE 460 405 RF. Pretty sweet boolit.

Yes, I should have added, those frosty boolits are very shootable. As long as they are the right size it dont really matter.
Most of what I shot my first year or so was frosted boolits.

For lube I use Alox 350, beeswax 50/50 and add 10-11% parafin wax.
This works for me in everything from 380 to 30-06.

[Lloyd Smale]

that 540 at about 1500 fps isn't that bad to shoot. No more recoil then a 405 at 1900 and it will shoot through anything. More of a slow push then the slap of the 405 at higher velocity. I saw a 1400 lb buffalo shot in the chest with one have an exit wound coming out the hind quarter right next to the old poop shoot. know of two others shot with that bullet I casted t and it knocked a cork out of those buffalo.
dkf I tried to order some pile drivers on Beartooth website but a note came up saying they were presently filling back orders or something like that so I'll wait until I hear how well you like them and how well they work in a lever action rifle.
Irascible makes a good point about driving them fast so I may stick to 350 gr Pile Driver Jr type bullets real fast and see how accurate they are as well as seeing if they function in my Marlin lever 1895.
I'm getting old and shooting the 540 gr bullets at high velocity will be no fun at all for this old man.

[reloader28]

that 540 at about 1500 fps isn't that bad to shoot. No more recoil then a 405 at 1900 and it will shoot through anything. More of a slow push then the slap of the 405 at higher velocity. I saw a 1400 lb buffalo shot in the chest with one have an exit wound coming out the hind quarter right next to the old poop shoot. know of two others shot with that bullet I casted t and it knocked a cork out of those buffalo.


It flat amazes me what you can make a cast boolit do. I'm completely sold on them. 95% of my rifle and 100% of my handgun shooting is home cast.

John Linebaugh is a neighbor of mine and he can tell some pretty neat stories. Its flat ridiculous what that man knows.

[repeat]

reloader 28 do you use a lubrisizer or pan apply the lube?

[repeat]

Hey Big slug is your NOE mold gas checked bullet or plain base?
I like that design and wide meplat.

[Lloyd Smale]

John is not only an encyclopedia when it comes to handguns and a genius building them hes a heck of a nice guy to boot. You could sure do worse for a neighbor. I'm afraid if he was my neighbor I wouldn't have a penny to buy food with!!!!!!!
It flat amazes me what you can make a cast boolit do. I'm completely sold on them. 95% of my rifle and 100% of my handgun shooting is home cast.

John Linebaugh is a neighbor of mine and he can tell some pretty neat stories. Its flat ridiculous what that man knows.

[David2011]

I am not big fan of 45colt, . . .

What?! Hush yo mouth. :shock:

David

[Bigslug]

Hey Big slug is your NOE mold gas checked bullet or plain base?
I like that design and wide meplat.

My pops picked that one up in plain base to be a mass-production counterpart to the RCBS 405 GCFN. Didn't really plan to firewall it, but OK to 1600 or thereabouts with Ben's Red. If you plan to run it hotter, GC's can only help.

[reloader28]

Lubrisizer

[GunsAndHarley]

I have that NOE 460 405 RF. Pretty sweet boolit.

Yes, I should have added, those frosty boolits are very shootable. As long as they are the right size it dont really matter.
Most of what I shot my first year or so was frosted boolits.

For lube I use Alox 350, beeswax 50/50 and add 10-11% parafin wax.
This works for me in everything from 380 to 30-06.

Can I ask wihat sizing die you use or shoot as cast?

[repeat]

GunsAndHarley for the 45/70 I will use a Lee at .459 as my bore measures .457 and I was told to go .002 over bore size.I hope that's right but I have not shot any cast bullets yet in it.
I'm still waiting for the slugging supplies from LBT to slug the rest of my guns I plan on casting for.
Is.002 is the right size over bore?
Thanks for all of you folks help and soon I will be casting for all my handguns.

[GunsAndHarley]

GunsAndHarley for the 45/70 I will use a Lee at .459 as my bore measures .457 and I was told to go .002 over bore size.I hope that's right but I have not shot any cast bullets yet in it.
I'm still waiting for the slugging supplies from LBT to slug the rest of my guns I plan on casting for.
Is.002 is the right size over bore?
Thanks for all of you folks help and soon I will be casting for all my handguns.

I am waiting for my casting stuff. Everything come from the USA, no choice up north. I choose an accurate mould, 460/350 VG and I am developing skin rash over this. I dont know anybody who cast. Learn from books and people here. I hope I am good to go with a .460 mould size. I have not slug my barrel yet. The tought of hamering someting down the bore make me lose sleep. Anyway que sera sera as we say in chineese [emoji12]

[repeat]

I know what you mean about hammering something down your barrel.
I watched it being done at our shooting range by a new friend and as long as you lube the barrel real well the soft slug goes down the barrel fairly easy.
My 45/70 slugging process went well but I used a lot of lube in the barrel.I still had some leading from the process but in short order I had it cleaned out.
Finding the right size metal rod was the hardest part.I tapped the rod in several places so it goes in straight and does not touch the barrel.That was the hardest part.
Let me know how yours goes.

[repeat]

I meant I put electrical tape around the metal rod in several places until the rod fit in the barrel and tapped the rod down until the slug went through.
Since I misspelled one word the whole concept looked wrong.

[hockeynick39]

I am waiting for my casting stuff. Everything come from the USA, no choice up north. I choose an accurate mould, 460/350 VG and I am developing skin rash over this. I dont know anybody who cast. Learn from books and people here. I hope I am good to go with a .460 mould size. I have not slug my barrel yet. The tought of hamering someting down the bore make me lose sleep. Anyway que sera sera as we say in chineese [emoji12]

I use the Accurate 46-400M and ordered it at .460 before I slugged my original Winchester 1886 in 45-70. This way I had a +/- of .002" either way depending on alloy I was using. I usually go with COWW, but have a little Lyman #2 laying around too. Boolits drop right at .460 with the COWW and generally weigh between 395 and 405 gr, so it's right in the ballpark. I also chose the plain base because I like to make my own gas checks from thinner material than the commercial GCs that go on the shanked boolits. I use a Lyman 4500 Lubrisizer and a .459 sizing die. My rifle fortunately slugged out at .4575", not too shabby for a 124 year young rifle with excellent rifling. Shoots like a champ too!

Mold print:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/46-400M-D1_zpslvezmfiu.png

Mold, boolits, brass, and loads:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/Winchester%201886%20084_zpsquzo493c.jpg

Rifle and loads:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/Winchester%201886%20089_zpszbszfye6.jpg

Final chrono target at 50 yds off sand bags (with load data):
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/Winchester%201886%2050%20yd%20Target%20III%20001_z psxa8wwngu.jpg

[GunsAndHarley]

Hockeynick,

The 460-350 VG is very similar to yours, shorter as it has only one lube groove. I chose the 460 for same reason, it will fit after sizing. I intend to use 92-2-6 alloy and I dont know at what size they will drop. Waiting for the mould right now.

Nice grouping! Do you have leading at that speed? I want to push them around 1800 fps.

I made a batch of lube and hope everything goes well. Used soy wax, dextron ATF, STP oil treatment and moly grease. Turn out prety good. The best part was my wife, when she saw me in the kitchen cooking this nasty stuff. She took over and made the lube for me... [emoji7]

[GunsAndHarley]

Repeat, post some pics of your bullet. I am curious to see your result

[hockeynick39]

Hockeynick,

The 460-350 VG is very similar to yours, shorter as it has only one lube groove. I chose the 460 for same reason, it will fit after sizing. I intend to use 92-2-6 alloy and I dont know at what size they will drop. Waiting for the mould right now.

Nice grouping! Do you have leading at that speed? I want to push them around 1800 fps.

I made a batch of lube and hope everything goes well. Used soy wax, dextron ATF, STP oil treatment and moly grease. Turn out prety good. The best part was my wife, when she saw me in the kitchen cooking this nasty stuff. She took over and made the lube for me... [emoji7]

No, no leading. The .459 sized boolit grips the rifling and seals the barrel very well. I shot a couple of groups like that with 5 shot groups into a 2 1/2" target at 50 yds, so I pretty much stopped testing at that point. Could I go faster, yes, but why? Pretty much anything out to 200 yds won't require a second shot. I use 100% bees wax 50/50 with Grade 2 NLGI for both rifle and pistol loads. Pushed that to 2000 fps with no issues or leading. Don't do anything with my boolits in the kitchen and I definitely do the alloying and lube making outside to get PLENTY or fresh air movement. I also have not recovered any boolits that I have shot from the 1886. The only boolits that I have recovered were from my S&W 625 JM and those were wadcutters at 830 fps or HPs @ 1200 fps. Both were buried into the damp sand berm approximately 12 - 18" deep and fired approximately 25 yds away. I know the .460 cal didn't go all the way through the berm at 50 yds, but I was armpit deep and still unable to locate any boolits in the 10" diameter hole I dug and sifted to find them. I have no other photos of my boolits other than those that I already posted. However, I will post some from my 625 JM.

S&W 625 JM (.45 ACP/.45 AR- Auto Rim):
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/452460HP001_zps19256888.jpg

Recovered .452" HPs:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/452460HP002_zps515a4ca4.jpg

[GunsAndHarley]

Nice to see good result like that. Cant wait to cast my own.

[reloader28]

.459
That was .002 over the bore dia when slugged

[repeat]

Thanks reloader28,I was almost completely sure I read .002 and now I know for sure.
I have heard of folks sizing to .001 over bore but I'm sticking to .002.
GunsAndHarley I can't post picks as the last time my wife went to stay overnight at a real nice Hotel someone got in our room and stole our camera.
I'll replace it soon but as of right now I don't own a digital camera thanks to maid at LaQuinta.
I hate thieves with a passion!

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Just incase anyone wonders you can order a custom sizing die from Lee for 38.00 and shipping.
They don't make a .459 sizing die but you can order one for around 50.00.
I'm sure everybody knows this but I didn't.
I got mine in less than 2 weeks.

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I have a question for you more experienced casters.
I use a Lee bottom pour pot and I can't adjust it down far enough to fill some molds.
I run out of adjustment.
The lead just pours onto the mold spru plate and I get very little in the mold.
Has anyone else ever had this problem?

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Problem fixed!

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I want to thank all that has helped me to get to this point.
I now know my former leading problems were not caused by soft lead back in the early 70's.
Undersized cast bullets or lack of a good lube and maybe both had to be the cause.
I cast and loaded a box of 45lc cast bullets that were close to 5 on the hardness scale and I had no leading when I finally got a better lube working for me.
I still don't have the knowledge you folks have but I know a lot more now than when I joined and that is because of you folks.Thanks