Where are we headed - watch Scotland

[Artful]

Scotland Sets July Deadline for Airgun Licensing (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160304/scotland-sets-july-deadline-for-airgun-licensing)


In a sad turn, the home of the Scottish Enlightenment continues to adopt benighted gun controls. On June 25, 2015, the Scottish Parliament passed the Air Weapons and Licensing Act, with Royal assent following on August 4. The legislation requires airgun owners to acquire a certificate or permit to continue to possess the devices. Late last week, Scottish officials announced July 1, 2016 as the deadline for obtaining the required documentation. Specifically, the law makes it “an offence for a person to use, possess, purchase or acquire an air weapon without holding an air weapon certificate.” If convicted, a violator faces up to two years in prison.

[Teddy (punchie)]

All in the name of safety. You'll be safer, it the right thing to do. Why would you want to not be safe? Make sure the people that have the air guns a safe users.

All sound good but when you get to the foundation it is all about control. Telling you what you can an can't do, that is losing freedom. Too often the person that just wants to enjoy a freedom. Not keeping up with all the chances in the laws is the ones that are going to loss, and made to look like a criminal.

Air weapon?? What that mean? A blow gun? A straw with a needle? Where will that end? ? Are toys going on the list? that said I understand that some toys need instruction on safe use.

Be a law to do everything one day.

[Col4570]

This is down to the idiots with Airguns who shoot Domestic animals and non game Wildlife.The Law abiding are always penalised due to the Actions of a few Morons who when they get an Airgun they must try it out,usualy with a tragic outcome.Several Airguns at my House.Always taught safety and responsible use to my Three Grandsons who are now grown ups.

[Geezer in NH]

Subjects do what they are told, they will comply

[Hickok]

:popcorn:

[fryboy]

Surely helps explain "somebody's" attitude ...( tho supposedly he isn't currently in his home country and seems to tend to misdirect his frustration and impotence at others ...)

[runfiverun]

:bigsmyl2: fry....
they had their chance to change their country,,,, they passed.

[WILCO]

:popcorn:

Yep.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/eating/hamburger-waving-hello-smiley-emoticon.gif

[Hickok]

Yep.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/eating/hamburger-waving-hello-smiley-emoticon.gifYep. Waiting......waiting......

[Col4570]

Out tomorrow Clay Busting with Flintlock and Percussion Guns.On the licensing of Airguns,hope it is not catching I have a few around the house,some strange things happening north of the border since they got their own Parliament.

[458mag]

David killed goliath and his four brothers with an oldtimey sling shot. Guess that next on the list.

[Omega]

We are basically there: http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/guns/gun-rights/maryland-law-would-ban-bb-guns-and-toy-replicas/?utm_source=newsletter_030416&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter

Even here in TN where the gun laws are not as bad as some other places it's illegal to shoot bb guns in your own backyard in many city limits.

[Lead Fred]

Yet the number one murder weapon in the UK is the hardware store claw hammer

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Surely helps explain "somebody's" attitude ...( tho supposedly he isn't currently in his home country and seems to tend to misdirect his frustration and impotence at others ...)

I do believe this means me. Something to do with the present disarray of American politics, possibly? It certainly seems like all these safeguards against governmental abuses have produced a greater fear of its happening than has been seen in Western Europe for quite a while. Perhaps they think it is the same everywhere.

I doubt if many British shooters find this legislation necessary, or a reasoned response to the small part airguns play in violence and vandalism. But it arises from a respect for life which has prevented gun ownership from becoming identified with the loony right, as innocent American hunters so often suffer for. Those in Sccotland who already have any form of firearms licence, will most likely find it to be just another piece of paper to be added. No action is required until that five-year licence expires, and for those who don't have it, an airgun licence becomes necessary on the first of January next year not July. Give people accuracy on threads like this, and they will only learn to expect it.

[Walkingwolf]

I never worry about what the loons are doing across the great pond. If they do not like us they should stay the hell away, pretty simple. I have never been so ignorant, and arrogant to get involved in UK politics. They get what they deserve.

[montana_charlie]

Does "airgun" equate to "blowgun", as well?
Would an unregistered soda straw and chickpea be grounds for a felony charge?

[tdoyka]

Does "airgun" equate to "blowgun", as well?
Would an unregistered soda straw and chickpea be grounds for a felony charge?

you mean my soda straw has to be regulated!!!!! oh no!!! i'm a felon!!! whatever should i do!!!!

NOT!!!!:bigsmyl2:[smilie=l:

[robg]

Scotland is a socialist Paradise ,its a one party state like north Korea total control by the the elite ,they know what best for everyone. Luckily there subsidized by england to keep them in the UK .should pull the plug now and let them sink under their own welfare state

[Geezer in NH]

Ever wonder why we left in revolution long ago from the UK.

Next wonder why we saved them twice last century?

Sorry but their voted choices to bad for them.

[fryboy]

'Tis true ...Americans gave up some of their personal guns and America also provided training etc with such long before we joined WWII because the Brit's were so obsessed with their anti-gun stances that they were ill prepared for it ..

Ummm BiS... American politics doesn't have much to do with this ...it's some other sickness [bummer that] I'm not sure I could call our umm system politics anymore, or,for the longest times ...more like wannabe class warfare ....

[shredder]

Scotland is a socialist Paradise ,its a one party state like north Korea total control by the the elite ,they know what best for everyone. Luckily there subsidized by england to keep them in the UK .should pull the plug now and let them sink under their own welfare state

Well ,you left me speechless! I lived there for 2 years while my wife did her Phd. Lovely place actually.

[Walkingwolf]

Well ,you left me speechless! I lived there for 2 years while my wife did her Phd. Lovely place actually.

I understand Cuba is a lovely place also...

[jmort]

Euro trash doing what seems to be their "prime directive," pass more idiotic "safety" laws.

[shooter93]

After years of screaming for freedom they decided to stay with nanny. What happens there now is their business and what they voted for. And what happens here is our business and we don't need a constant second guessing of us by those across the ponds.

[xs11jack]

Those kind of laws are to keep the politicians safe not the citizens.
Ole Jack

[Geezer in NH]

Like bb guns [sorry to me all air guns are bb guns] are a big threat to politicians unless it can make another jackboot for them to wear.

[jsizemore]

This is down to the idiots with Airguns who shoot Domestic animals and non game Wildlife.The Law abiding are always penalised due to the Actions of a few Morons who when they get an Airgun they must try it out,usualy with a tragic outcome.Several Airguns at my House.Always taught safety and responsible use to my Three Grandsons who are now grown ups.

How is the issuance of a permit/license going to stop morons and idiots from shooting domestic and non-game animals? It's just the beginning of confiscation.....again.

[Menner]

BiS it is laughable that you think that the progressive anti gunners don't think you gun owners are loony right wingers, they want your guns as much if not more that the idiots over here want ours. but you will eventually just hand them over with a smile when the time comes. I for one will not I am no hero or martyr but I have lived a good life and I am not going out like that! End of Discussion!
Tony

[therealhitman]

Save yourself some trouble Tony and put him on your ignore list ASAP. It really improved my Castboolits time immensely.

[Menner]

sometimes its fun to spin wacka doddles like that up and watch so condescending and superior.
I have noticed that most of the progressives and socialist I have run into over he years are obviously smarter than I am and like the government know what's better for me than I do. LOL
I have a brother that is 11 years younger than me and he wants to be a Liberal so bad but he knows in his heart that it is stupid and he can't make the jump. I am trying at the moment to get him to stop listening to NPR. PLEASE STEP AWAY FROM THE RADIO LOL
Tony

[PS Paul]

When I see this sort of bloody nonsense going on, I thank my dear Mother and God that she had the strength and courage to bring us from Glasgow to the United States in the 70's. God Bless America and to heck with that place, beautiful as it might be.....

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Ah, the old mantras are being chanted! Britain outlasted the invasion threat of 1940, and came within three months of Germany's invasion of Russia, on domestically produced and paid-for armaments and war materials. The contribution of Lend-Lease (a splendid gesture, of course of Americans quite different in motivation from yourself) was negligible in 1941, but reached a quarter of supplies used by Britain in 1943 onwards, when it seem unlikely that Hitler could have won his war against 3/4 as much.

It seems inevitable that America, without British participation, would have to fight a later but much harder war against a stronger and better cooperating Germany and Japan. American policy in war, with occasional lapses, has always been to make technological capacity substitute for sacrifice of lives, and you can't do much better in that line than sending weapons out to fight on their own. It was a good deal for all concerned, and it wasn't done for ego-massaging in the following century.

[fryboy]

it's not about massaging egos amigo ( unless you're doing your own ...) but ...the whys of how it came to be ,sadly, seems to of been forgotten , it was because of anti gun stances and policies - that weren't even as draconian as the present ones , now it's "let's ban any thing that might be utilized as a weapon" when in truth the only "real" weapon is the mind ....<_< ... hey i know ! lt's make it a crime to kill or assault anyone ! that'll stop human nature cold ( uh huh and boy do i have a deal on some ocean front property for you - it's real close to the old london bridge btw ...)

[Garyshome]

Well if they are not registered in the first place then .Gov doesn't know where they are. I try to never volunteer information.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Ever wonder why we left in revolution long ago from the UK.

Next wonder why we saved them twice last century?

Sorry but their voted choices to bad for them.

Because of Lord Justice Mansfield's ruling, two years earlier, that a slave was free when his foot touched British ground, and the colonies having charters stating that their law must be compatible with that of England?

"How are we going to drag the New Englanders in?"
"Well, they don't want the hoople-heads to find out that that legal East India tea is going to be cheaper than what Hancock has been smuggling..."

[Artful]

Britain outlasted the invasion threat of 1940, and came within three months of Germany's invasion of Russia, on domestically produced and paid-for armaments and war materials. The contribution of Lend-Lease (a splendid gesture, of course of Americans quite different in motivation from yourself) was negligible in 1941, but reached a quarter of supplies used by Britain in 1943 onwards, when it seem unlikely that Hitler could have won his war against 3/4 as much.

Ah, forgetting the Fourth Neutrality Act of 1939 which authorized the US industry to trade arms with belligerents provided that the countries paid in cash and collected them. The start of your convoy shipping which was defended by US ships from German U-boats.
and



In the dark days following the British Expeditionary Force's evacuation from Dunkirk in 1940, Great Britain was a nation virtually disarmed. And not just by the need to abandon equipment on France's beaches to save British "Tommies" to fight another day, but by the policies of its own government.

The days of devotion to civilian markmanship, "volunteer rifle clubs" and the idea that there should be "a rifle in every cottage," as proposed by the Prime Minister Marquis of Salisbury in 1900, had given way to restrictive gun control laws that required subjects to demonstrate "good reason" to merely obtain a handgun or rifle.

So with Hitler's legions poised to cross the English Channel, the British people were defended by an ill-equipped and defeated army and a "Home Guard" armed with little more than sporting shotguns and pikes.
Help for the beleaguered nation came from both the American government and from the American people, the latter through the "American Committee for Defense of British Homes."

In late 1940, the committee sent an urgent appeal -- which, of course, appeared in American Rifleman -- for Americans to send "Pistols - Rifles - Revolvers - Shotguns - Binoculars" because "British civilians, faced with the threat of invasion, desperately need arms for the defense of their homes." Thousands of arms were collected and sent to England.
* http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/650257/posts

Which as I recall were supposed to be returned to their owners but the British dumped most of them in the Atlantic after the war was over.

[fryboy]

Nice post art ( as always but.. facts don't matter much to him if it doesn't fit his agenda ...grandparents on both sides of my family donated personal arms to help overcome the self inflicted folly of those policies over the pond,sadly, they still haven't learned the lesson and karma will assure that until they succeed at this lesson they will have to repeat it o'er and o'er again )

[fatelk]

BiS it is laughable that you think that the progressive anti gunners don't think you gun owners are loony right wingers, they want your guns as much if not more that the idiots over here want ours. but you will eventually just hand them over with a smile when the time comes. I for one will not I am no hero or martyr but I have lived a good life and I am not going out like that! End of Discussion!
Tony

I suspect you might misunderstand where some people like this are coming from. Now, I don't know BiS personally, and don't follow discussions here enough to know the history behind you all, but his comments do remind me of a certain firearm enthusiast I used to be acquainted with.

He was ok with any gun control scheme that came along, even though he had an extensive collection. That's when I came to realize that gun control doesn't mean banning guns for everyone, just controlling who can and can't have them. I realized that he wasn't ignorant of the motives of the liberal, gun-control, progressive elite; he was one of them.

It turned out he was an arrogant elitist who was offended that the average riff-raff should have access to weapons. He was a hard core intellectual statist who believed that only an all powerful benevolent government could save mankind, one controlled by "highly evolved" intellectual elite like him, who tell everyone else how to live their lives, for the good of mankind.

Apologies to BiS if that's not you at all. Not trying to unfairly impugn anyone's motives, but a lot of American gun owners mistakenly think that all gun owners logically believe in the right of all free people to own firearms. There are plenty of elitist-minded gun owners here in the U.S. and all over the world.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Ah, forgetting the Fourth Neutrality Act of 1939 which authorized the US industry to trade arms with belligerents provided that the countries paid in cash and collected them. The start of your convoy shipping which was defended by US ships from German U-boats.
and

* http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/650257/posts

Which as I recall were supposed to be returned to their owners but the British dumped most of them in the Atlantic after the war was over.

I think you only recall what people whose views suit you, and use simple words, say. Now I am about to use an esoteric technique with which you may be unfamiliar, known as telling the truth.

The convoy system, at first voluntary and then compulsory, was instituted by the British on the outbreak of war, as they had learned the necessity in the First World War. Their defence was almost entirely British, and didn't get less so when America acquired sudden commitments in the Pacific. American losses in the eight months before they imposed their own convoy system for eastern seaboard shipping, more than 600 ships, were a quarter of those sunk by German submarines in the entire war, and greater than British losses at any time. Apologists for allowing this situation to happen claimed that America didn't have the escort vessels to escort convoys.

China, in recognition of neutrality, allows trade with the US, but I don't believe you would consider that reason for gratitude. That trade during American neutrality was predominantly with the UK was because Britain could use the seas and Germany, with the exception of one merchant U-boat, couldn't. The earlier Neutrality Acts exempted civil wars, oil and vehicles, with the result that General Franco of Spain (who combined Hitler's ferocity with Mussolini's competence) owed $100,000,000 to Ford, Studebaker and Standard Oil. In the case of Britain priceless knowhow was flowing in the opposite direction, ready to save thousands of lives later, such as antisubmarine technology, radar and modern fighter control.

Britain's refusal to make terms in the summer of 1940 was based not merely on defiance but on a carefully assessed conclusion that an opposed seaborne invasion was a bigger gamble than resisting one. As Churchill said, those of us who understood it the best, feared it the least. The existing army all had rifles by a week after Dunkirk, and while the newly formed Home Guard were armed predominantly with purchased .30-06 American Enfields, those existed (and had been available to the USA in 1917) due to a British-financed factory programme of 1914.

The supply of civilian arms to the UK was largely a gesture, just like the donation of cast-iron garden railings which were found in store recently, since there was no shortage of scrap iron. Letting people do you a favour works far better in keeping their commitment alive, than doing them one. Those same Neutrality Acts cancelling the nationality of the American pilots who fought with the Royal Air force was a gesture in the opposite direction. Here is an endorsement in the passport of someone rightly suspected of being about to commit this offence:

162879

I don't believe they were ever told individually of their notional statelessness, in such striking contrast to the instincts of the President of the time, and when events forced repeal of the Neutrality Acts in 1941, the US decided not be so silly.

Now these are things that happened in the real world of people, whose objective wasn't to let you posture on an electronic medium not then dreamed of. It also has nothing to do with having to demonstrate reason and fitness to have an airgun.

[Artful]

As I remember it from history lessons so long ago...

The bulk of the convoy defense was British and Canadian at the start of WW2.

Before the American entry into World War II, cutters of the US Coast Guard patrolled the North Atlantic. And Chased U-boat within the 12 mile limit along the Atlantic Coast.

In January 1940 President Roosevelt directed the establishment of the Atlantic Weather Observation Service using Coast Guard cutters and U.S. Weather Bureau observers.

After the invasion of Denmark by Germany in April 1940, President Roosevelt ordered the International Ice Patrol to continue as a legal pretext to patrol Greenland, whose cryolite mines were vital to refining aluminum and whose geographic location allowed accurate weather forecasts to be made for Europe. The Greenland Patrol was maintained by the Coast Guard for the duration of the war.

While I grant you that the 5,000 to 10,000 firearms sent to Britain by the US Public was a drop in the bucket of what the British needed after Dunkirk's loses.

Do be so kind as to identify these British made firearms used by the home guard in these pictures...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47833000/jpg/_47833468_galleryhomeguard.jpg
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/resources/images/4705821.jpg?type=article-full
http://flashbak.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/GettyImages-3314591.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/24/article-2065714-0EE83B2200000578-230_468x362.jpg
http://histclo.com/imagef/date/2011/03/hg01s.jpg

As for the Eagles Squadron Pilots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Squadrons
and people like Pilot Officer Billy Fiske (First American Pilot killed in WW2 acting with RAF) - my understading was they knew the score going it. It was an Illegal Act which is why many claimed to be Canadians.

As for posturing on the internet - I bow to your superior skills in that regard.

And as to my Original Post - it was about where America is headed today - not the past in which we were once a nation of riflemen unlike today when we seem to be a nation of Video Game Commando's.

[Hickok]

When I see this sort of bloody nonsense going on, I thank my dear Mother and God that she had the strength and courage to bring us from Glasgow to the United States in the 70's. God Bless America and to heck with that place, beautiful as it might be.....Paul, I for one am glad to have you here!

[Hickok]

"I think you only recall what people whose views suit you, and use simple words, say. Now I am about to use an esoteric technique with which you may be unfamiliar, known as telling the truth."


Artful, I am in good company now, seeing BIS just called you a liar, as he did me several days ago.
But you well know that we colonials are looked down upon with distain and disgust by the upper crust of Great Britain, as the caste system has never fully disappeared in their society.

[PS Paul]

Thanks, Hickock! You're a good man.

[Hickok]

Paul, you are the good man, and I too say God bless your Mother.

[shooter93]

Guys....most countries hate, resent or dislike us for one reason or another which although they would never admit it.....I believe it comes from jealousy. We are the unwashed masses and below "their high standards" That is of course until they want money or soldiers then we are their "friends" their is scarcely a country on the planet that isn't marked with the blood of our people dying there defending them. They have tied the economy to ours and now that the economy is down and we aren't buying as many of their products the resentment grows all the while they know should our economy collapse the entire world goes with us.

[PS Paul]

I'll put it to you like this: outside of my Mother and four siblings (and our collective children), the entire of my family lives back in Scotland. We've a very large clan there. They all share the same condescending attitude towards America and Americans, but EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM LOVE to visit the States! Whilst here, we show them WA, OR and SoCal. They marvel at our expansive country, delight in our beautiful weather, enjoy the immense selection of eateries, are stunned at the available shopping, partake in terrific fishing excursions, speed effortlessly on our motor ways, take thrilling trips at amusement parks. Several REALLY enjoy being taken to gun ranges and are awestruck at the freedoms to shoot a myriad of firearms we privately own. The things we take for granted in the States are awe-inspiring to them and they ALL express disdain for Americans, our way of life and our "horrible Capitalist system" often squawking about our lack of socialized/free medical and dental. The irony never escapes me, but I'm a good relative and always do my darnedest to let them spew their nonsense while allowing them to enjoy some of the very best the US has to offer!
I love the family and really do enjoy the time spent with them while they are here, BUT it is always a true test of my patience to keep the peace while allowing their tomfoolery.

[Col4570]

How is the issuance of a permit/license going to stop morons and idiots from shooting domestic and non-game animals? It's just the beginning of confiscation.....again.

Exactly,you have hit the Nail right on the Head.Fools will always be fools.A piece of paper is not going to stop them.Zero Tolerance is the answer,make the punishment fit the crime.There are too many restrictions issued that encompass the whole shooting community that do nothing to curb irresponsible owners.

[Col4570]

Quite frankly,I have never come across this so called anti American feeling.It is almost as if those who quote this myth are doing the same thing by promoting discord where there is none.

[PS Paul]

You need only read the vitriol spewed by a certain someone in many threads on this forum.

[Col4570]

You need only read the vitriol spewed by a certain someone in many threads on this forum.

I suppose everyone has their own individual views but in general I do not detect an anti American feeling.I do see that we in the UK are sometimes looked upon with a jaundiced eye,one can see this in many Movies where Brits are portrayed as upper crust nincompoops.The stereotype to those gullible enough couldn't be further away from the truth.The class system as mentioned was swept away by the Two Wars where many families lost loved ones as did many in the USA. this bond exists today despite the inaccurate and offensive comments that we where saved twice by them.

[denul]

Col4570, my experience supports your observations in great detail. When I visited England, during the Gulf War,we were driven around to various places in the country by a very friendly taxi driver, who had agreed with our proposition that we should not be driving on the wrong side of the road in the country.A friend back home had asked if we could make some photos of an old army airbase if it still existed, and he took us there where the developers were converting it for commercial use. The man in charge stopped work in order to take us on a complete tour and show us all that he could of the history of the place. Would an American contractor have done the same forBritish tourists visiting in the United States? I hope so, and I believe so.

There was a local air show we missed, but a restored Spitfire was part of it,and flew over the old airfield. The contractor looked up and said, "Now that's why we're not speaking German!"
The cab driver nudged his elbow,nodded his head towards us and said,"Don't forget the P51..."


While we were taking the countryside tour, and announcement came on the radio that several British soldiers had been killed by a friendly fire incident during the Gulf war. Our guide stated that such was a reality of war, and probably could have been prevented, but that it was pointless for allies to blame one another when these things happen. He defused an awkward moment for all of us.

Later,a laundry had closed before we could finish drying our clothes.We ducked into a restaurant,apologized for our appearance, and asked if we could eat there. The owner seated us,asked about the wet clothes,introduced us to some very friendly patrons,and spoke with us until after closing. She then revealed that she had dried,ironed and folded our clothes,and would have words the next day with the laundry owners,for closing when they did.

We also had a long visit to the war museum in London,which includes a large exhibit on the sacrifices made by the USA before and during the conflict,with lots of details about life in the USA during the war,as well as the details of theBritish effort to accommodate the huge numbers of troops from the US dwelling among them. You will not leave there feeling they were ungrateful.

By the way, I have had very similar experiences in Germany and France,and Just happened to be in Germany When911 happened. Didn't know at first when I'd be getting home, but as soon as any one heard that Amercan accent,doors flew open. Could not pay for meals,they insisted. A woman came and offered her home,breaking into tears about the atrocity,and telling us the
at as a history teacher she never let her students forget how Europe and Civilization itself would have would have differed without the Americans.

The few Americans I have met that actually gone Over and returned unhappy because they "didn't get enough respect" weren't happy at home for the same reason. If you start your tour determined to listen to their side of it,rather than imposing your own, we'll all be the better for it.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Here are some of the first posts on this thread. You will note that the tenth-hand jibe about being a subject (my passport reads "subject and citizen") conferring superior freedom emerged from near the start and the personal attack on myself came before I appeared on the thread at all:


Subjects do what they are told, they will comply


Surely helps explain "somebody's" attitude ...( tho supposedly he isn't currently in his home country and seems to tend to misdirect his frustration and impotence at others ...)

:bigsmyl2: fry....
they had their chance to change their country,,,, they passed.

Here is my response, mild and abusive by the standards of the asterisk-dodgers on this board, and totally relevant to the suggestion that America is a freer or better governed country:


I do believe this means me. Something to do with the present disarray of American politics, possibly? It certainly seems like all these safeguards against governmental abuses have produced a greater fear of its happening than has been seen in Western Europe for quite a while. Perhaps they think it is the same everywhere.

I doubt if many British shooters find this legislation necessary, or a reasoned response to the small part airguns play in violence and vandalism. But it arises from a respect for life which has prevented gun ownership from becoming identified with the loony right, as innocent American hunters so often suffer for. Those in Sccotland who already have any form of firearms licence, will most likely find it to be just another piece of paper to be added. No action is required until that five-year licence expires, and for those who don't have it, an airgun licence becomes necessary on the first of January next year not July. Give people accuracy on threads like this, and they will only learn to expect it.

The disease intensified with the following, a belief not uncommon in those who would establish one-party state if they could get the one-party state they wanted. I believe if a few words were changed to make it refer to the US, it would become clearer to you. Much of Scotland is a high unemployment area, but the majority of Britain's oil deposits are in Scottish waters or international ocean floor divided by virtue of Scotland's existence, and the number of Scots working in England and overseas is extremely high, often on government to government contracts as I used to do. Scotland earns its keep.


Scotland is a socialist Paradise ,its a one party state like north Korea total control by the the elite ,they know what best for everyone. Luckily there subsidized by england to keep them in the UK .should pull the plug now and let them sink under their own welfare state

There follows one of several attempts to ride on the backs of the dead of the Second World War. Of course all the Western democracies handled the rise of Nazism badly, although the slaughter of the First World War made a gamble worth trying. But you can't get worse prepared than having nothing to do with it, as America did.


'Tis true ...Americans gave up some of their personal guns and America also provided training etc with such long before we joined WWII because the Brit's were so obsessed with their anti-gun stances that they were ill prepared for it.

Ummm BiS... American politics doesn't have much to do with this ...it's some other sickness [bummer that] I'm not sure I could call our umm system politics anymore, or,for the longest times ...more like wannabe class warfare ....


Euro trash doing what seems to be their "prime directive," pass more idiotic "safety" laws.

Here is another post which, besides revealing an interesting family situation, includes rhetoric you would have considered most distasteful if I had used it of the American wacka doddles in this thread:


sometimes its fun to spin wacka doddles like that up and watch so condescending and superior.
I have noticed that most of the progressives and socialist I have run into over he years are obviously smarter than I am and like the government know what's better for me than I do. LOL
I have a brother that is 11 years younger than me and he wants to be a Liberal so bad but he knows in his heart that it is stupid and he can't make the jump. I am trying at the moment to get him to stop listening to NPR. PLEASE STEP AWAY FROM THE RADIO LOL
Tony

Here follows another post of mine, which only a need to do to others what you can't take from them could make out to be a fraction as abusive as some of the above:


Ah, the old mantras are being chanted! Britain outlasted the invasion threat of 1940, and came within three months of Germany's invasion of Russia, on domestically produced and paid-for armaments and war materials. The contribution of Lend-Lease (a splendid gesture, of course of Americans quite different in motivation from yourself) was negligible in 1941, but reached a quarter of supplies used by Britain in 1943 onwards, when it seem unlikely that Hitler could have won his war against 3/4 as much.

It seems inevitable that America, without British participation, would have to fight a later but much harder war against a stronger and better cooperating Germany and Japan. American policy in war, with occasional lapses, has always been to make technological capacity substitute for sacrifice of lives, and you can't do much better in that line than sending weapons out to fight on their own. It was a good deal for all concerned, and it wasn't done for ego-massaging in the following century.

The above is a far truer and less abusive version of the situation than the ego-massaging ones. As for American politics, it most certainly is relevant when people are commenting adversely on politics in those countries you aren't interested in commenting on. We routinely see threads in which posters - sometimes the same posters - accuse organs of the US government of murdering people, as long as they aren't Democrats or foreigners. At the moment there is widespread awareness on this board that a presidential candidate (or near-candidate) has tried to blackmail the Republican party into selecting him as their candidate for supreme office, by threatening to stand as an independent or for a third party, and split their vote. That can't happen in the British system, as it isn't worth anybody's while to try. The Queen invites the leader of the largest party in Parliament to form a government. They could choose a new leader in the course of the following week, and he has a constitutional obligation to resign, or make history by being the first British prime minister since the Renaissance to be dismissed by the Queen.

The politics of all countries are immensely complicated, not least those where America has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths in its efforts to find someone weak enough to impose its choice of institutions by force. As America has accepted an obligation under international law to make war only in direct self-defence, or as authorized by the United Nations, or as required by existing treaties, this is hardly a means of improving America's standing in the world. In the case of Scotland a referendum on independence has been massively defeated as it was planned to be, with the Scottish Nationalists protesting at not having it delayed, and a long process has begun of granting promised concessions and yet having them turn out less significant than they appeared to be. That is what happened in Northern Ireland, and I am convinced the Nationalist interest there knew they were being given things to show their voters, which wouldn't match up to the picture on the box. The Police Federation and the Law Society for Scotland have both stated that the airgun licencing scheme is impractical and unlikely to serve any useful purpose. I think it is intended to make sure that legislation on other firearms remains as it is, reserved to the London government.

But what does the actual situation matter, when you have some pleasant buzz-words to say to one another? I suppose I am lucky there isn't anything you can do to me for saying whatever I want to.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

By the way, I have had very similar experiences in Germany and France,and Just happened to be in Germany When911 happened. Didn't know at first when I'd be getting home, but as soon as any one heard that Amercan accent,doors flew open. Could not pay for meals,they insisted. A woman came and offered her home,breaking into tears about the atrocity,and telling us the
at as a history teacher she never let her students forget how Europe and Civilization itself would have would have differed without the Americans.


I've seen Americans having just the same experience in Saudi Arabia, minus the laundering, and never more than from the fundamentalists, who cared most about Islam being defamed. That was while the American right-wing press was denying the condemnatory statements by the King, legal and religious authorities that I saw in the local press.

I also had the interesting experience of sitting with two German twin sisters in the café on the way up to Neuschwanstein Castle, as copied in Disneyland, when a group of young military Americans were sounding off at some length about Germans. I tell you, if I had said anything like it on this thread, some people might burst a blood vessel. They had apparently forgotten though I don't doubt they sometimes knew it that people understand foreign languages sometimes. It is a great pity that neither of those sisters ever played poker, as you could see a talent there. No discredit to them, and certainly no hostility - more like indulgent amusement, as with small children, especially since the part of the genuinely much-valued American protection which involved irradiating air-bursts in the Fulda Gap had long since vanished from Nato plans. Come to think of it, my wife whom I hadn't met then, was old enough for her university days in Fulda to begin after the opportunity to be irradiated for her own good had gone.

Other countries are full of such complexities, and one of the weaknesses of democracy is the danger that it will implement the opinions f people who can't be bothered finding out.

[fryboy]

I suppose your name calling isn't offensive to you mr.umm wackadoodle - with or without asterisks lolz odd that eh,unlike many I never put you on my ignore list ,after all I need a good chuckle now and again,if it comes with a few sad shakes of the head so be it [shrugz]
Nope we didn't save the empire so to speak,what we did was to try and give them a hand up vs. a handout ,the distinction is noteworthy, yet I don't find it odd at all that years later they forgot the lessons from the so called great wars ( BTW no war is great nor is there anything about wars that are great )
America BTW ,no matter how the socialist try to make it so,isn't a democracy - it's a republic,again the difference is worth noting and perhaps means more to it's inhabitants whom are aware if this fact vs. Those whom would try to twist it otherwise as well as various foreign factors who've never experienced it except in glancing at it with disdain....'twere this but in the pit ....your distaste,haughtiness and diatribes against Americans has been ,if nothing else,consistent. Not really worth mentioning however repulsive and uncouth as it may be,it is after all your opinion and like most it reflects more upon you than anyone else ,good bad ugly indifferent doesn't matter as we're all part of this umm global village so to speak

[PS Paul]

I suppose everyone has their own individual views but in general I do not detect an anti American feeling.I do see that we in the UK are sometimes looked upon with a jaundiced eye,one can see this in many Movies where Brits are portrayed as upper crust nincompoops.The stereotype to those gullible enough couldn't be further away from the truth.The class system as mentioned was swept away by the Two Wars where many families lost loved ones as did many in the USA. this bond exists today despite the inaccurate and offensive comments that we where saved twice by them.
I haven't a clue what goes on in England. My experience is limited to those who I know from Glascow. Limited perhaps, but I see that attitude from many Scots both here and in the Old Country.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

your distaste,haughtiness and diatribes against Americans has been ,if nothing else,consistent.

Like I said, I had made no appearance at all on this thread before you chose to be yourself by saying:


Surely helps explain "somebody's" attitude ...( tho supposedly he isn't currently in his home country and seems to tend to misdirect his frustration and impotence at others ...)

[fryboy]

Gee I was givin' ya props on that ( for the consistency thing if nothing else lolz ) just as here gun control there isn't about guns ( at all )


Some air guns have quite the power,others not so much,I can't see young Timmy getting or renewing a licence for a toy ( even if he promises not to shoot his eye out ) perhaps my psyche will just never quite understand the placing of blame on a inanimate object ....let alone how it fails to address the problem,I think in some ways it reminds me of the big pharma's mantra - just keep throwing "something/anything" at it to treat the symptoms whilst ignoring the real problem ( and in this case the problem was of their own making )

[Riverpigusmc]

My country had nothing to do with the Wussification of Scotland, their subjects need to stay out of our politics and affairs :)

Visited once on a NATO float, beer wasn't bad

[Ballistics in Scotland]

My country had nothing to do with the Wussification of Scotland, their subjects need to stay out of our politics and affairs :)

Visited once on a NATO float, beer wasn't bad

Absolutely true. All countries staying out of each other's politics and affairs sounds an eminently fair arrangement.

[flyer1]

Absolutely true. All countries staying out of each other's politics and affairs sounds an eminently fair arrangement.


Why then do you keep jumping into American affairs. Please, take your own advise.

Flyer1

[Hamish]

Save yourself some trouble Tony and put him on your ignore list ASAP. It really improved my Castboolits time immensely.

M-hmm,,,,,,

BiS, every once in a while I will actually look at one of your posts, just to see if anything has changed. It's quite fascinating how you pontificate on things American, but have so little understanding of what you are criticizing. It's sort of like a cat trying to tell dogs they're not barking correctly,,,,,,,.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Why then do you keep jumping into American affairs. Please, take your own advise.

Flyer1

All right then, all countries comment equally on each other's affairs and politics would be equally fair. You will see quite a bit of that here.

[Blackwater]

BinS, I'd really love to buy you for what you're worth, and then sell you for what you THINK you're worth. I might just rival Trump's net worth!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

BinS, I'd really love to buy you for what you're worth, and then sell you for what you THINK you're worth. I might just rival Trump's net worth!

Yes, and you'd probably love to think of a smart and original insult sometime. But why should I jump the queue in front of all the other people who are waiting for that?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Why then do you keep jumping into American affairs. Please, take your own advise.

Flyer1

I suppose I must just feel like it. Was this a thread about American affairs? Deceptively entitled, don't you think?

[fryboy]

Only in that some believe we're heading down the same road ...I believe that was in the title ? The events of course weren't here

[jcwit]

bins, i'd really love to buy you for what you're worth, and then sell you for what you think you're worth. I might just rival trump's net worth!

har, har, har, har!

[flyer1]

You know BS, I always thought I would like to visit Ireland, one side of my family. If you are any indictation of the type of people I will encounter, I will just go back to Slovakia where I can shoot with the cops and be around Christians and Christian refuges instead of the animals you support and the "religion of peace" that you so seem to love.

[Menner]

You know BS that it is easy to tell that you know little of what you speak about when it pertains to America. I have been to your neck of the woods and found any number of friendly people from Denmark to Spain, UK to Italy, Germany to Turkey, France to Norway. I have been up the Eiffel Tower at night, spent a Whole day wondering around the Louvre (wish I had more time cannot be done in a day), seen the Arch de Triumph, Watched the Kings Guard Drill team put on a Rifle Drill Exhibition for us in Oslo Norway, Got Demonstrated Against in Trondheim Norway, Had to fend off Green Peace in the Harbor at Amsterdam with fire hoses (probably an organization of your liking), went to Piccadilly Circus met some real nice folks couple happened to be Punk Rockers (I don't care for Punk Rock but always up for something different especially when there happens to be a Lady involved) and took me to some of the under ground Bars to listen to some Punk Bands. I have been to the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul ( I believe I still have the Puzzle ring I bought there 7 band I believe), and the Reeperbahn in Hamburg (May have made a purchase there but I have denied it for this long I will continue to do so. if you don't know what it is google it). And I just a young Single US Sailor, I did meet some very interesting people had some very good conversations the whole while not looking down my nose at anybody we were just people having a Drink and engaging conversation insulting each other and laughing drinking and conversing some more. I don't have to agree with you or anybody else for that matter to be civil and have a interesting relationship but you sir are, as nicely as I can put it are a POMPUSS **** who is a TROLL and will have the honor of being the very first person to be put on my ignore list.
Tony