L.E. Wilson Case Length Gage 38 Special

[John Hill]

I have been getting mixed 38 sp brass to reload and have been using a Lee case trimmer to check length. It is a slow procedure to chuck up each piece of brass just to check if it is the right length. It is great to actually do the trimming when needed. I have looked at the L. E. Wilson Case Length Gage for 38 sp and wonder if any of you can recommend it as a speedier way to just check the length. I understand that Dillon and possibly others make these.
John

[5Shot]

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/150/150213.jpg

[Shiloh]

A caliper works pretty darn fast.

SHiloh

[Scharfschuetze]

A caliper works pretty darn fast.

SHiloh

I agree. Just lock the dial caliper at the length you decide on and then it's just a matter of seeing if the cases fit between the jaws or not. Similar technique to the device that 5shot's link is to.

[mdi]

Jes an FYI/FWIW post. I started loading .38 Special in 1969 and have yet to trim a single piece of brass. If you want to, fine, but I've never found a reason to do so. The "trim so all crimps are the same" school of thought is, IMO, baloney. I've roll crimped every .38 caliber bullet suitable for .38 Special and never experienced any variations because of case length vs. crimp. The fastest way to check case length would be one of those flat metal gauges that measure length of a bunch of cases, but for most of us a caliper would work quite well. (OOPS! just saw 5Shot's link. That's the one.).

Some things are "theoretically" correct but in real life are just that; theory. Trimming revolver brass is called by some "a waste of time", but if you want to, it's really OK, as I feel no time at the reloading bench is wasted, it's all fun (yesterday I sorted, by headstamp, over 500 9mm cases 'cause I wanted to do some "gun stuff" and already had 3/4 metric ton of reloads to shoot. Waste of time? Not for me..8-)).

[Bayou52]

After nearly 40 years of reloading 38s, I, like mdi, have never trimmed a single case. No reson for me ever to do so.

I do, however, use the Lee Factory Crimp Die to place crimps on the cases rather than using the crimp ring on the seater die.

I find it works very well, for me, at least.

Bayou52

[bangerjim]

Trimming 38 SPL brass IS a waste of your time. I have never trimmed any in many years.

I trim bottleneck rifle cases but not pistol cases. They do stretch over time. Not needed for shorter pistol cases.

But I use the Wilson max case gauges to check for bulges and non-chambering problems, not length, in ALL my pistol carts. Saves time and embarrasment at the range with non loading carts!

bangerjim

[Char-Gar]

Trimming 38 Special brass to a uniform length is indeed a waste of time, UNLESS you want the best possible accuracy.

[dudel]

Trimming 38 Special brass to a uniform length is indeed a waste of time, UNLESS you want the best possible accuracy.


+1 Case length affects roll crimps on 38 SPL

[Char-Gar]

+1 Case length affects roll crimps on 38 SPL

Yes, uniform case length = uniform roll crimp = uniform pressure = best accuracy. Bulleye competition shooters have know this for generations. Knowing this, I trim every case, even if it is used for plinking or informal target shooting. When I press the trigger, if the bullet does not go precisely where I want it to go, I want to be my fault and not the fault of the gun or load. Every round I load is as good as I can make it.

To answer Mr. Hill's question, the Wilson gauge only shows if the case is too long, it does not indicate uniform length. For precise uniform case length use a micrometer or good calipers to set the trimmer. Keep a trimmed case so the trimmer can be reset again if need be.

[Steyr47]

I too have never trimmed pistol brass. I'm not adverse, just have never needed to. I have also purchased Wilson or Lyman case gauges for my handgun cartridges. I could check loaded ammo via a "plunk" test with the cylinder (revolver) or barrel (semi-auto), but the gauge is very handy. I check 'em all and no longer have the occasional chambering problem at the range. I always figured 38 was trouble free, but then ran into some brass (don't recall the HS right now) which must have been thicker, as those loaded rounds would not chamber while all the RP, Win, etc HS's would. With a gauge, I check them all and don't inadvertently bring any problems to the range.

[Char-Gar]

I too have never trimmed pistol brass. I'm not adverse, just have never needed to.

What a reloader "needs" to do, depends on what he "wants" to accomplish.

[Scharfschuetze]

No need to trim if you are just plinking.

On the other hand, I found that my 50 yard match loads always benefited from the extra step and if you plan on stepping into the High Master class or win at state level competition and higher, you'll probably want to refine your ammo to the Nth degree. A wide nine or eight is easier to swallow if you know it wasn't your ammo that was responsible and that it really was your call when the shot broke. 38 Special cases once trimmed never need another trimming. They do need annealing from time to time, but that's a different topic.

Attention to detail has its benefits whether it's a uniform crimp due to uniform case length, uniform neck tension from same lot cases, uniform powder charge or whatever. Your ammunition's accuracy is the sum of all its parts.

It's all a matter of what your needs or your standards are.

[Shiloh]

What tool are you folks using to trim?? Forster, Hornady, Wilson, something else??
Thanks, Shiloh

[georgerkahn]

I pretty much concur with banger jim (post #7). Just a thought is a "tool" I made in the early 1970s. To wit, I took an almost four inch piece of aluminum angle from junk box, and first measured outside diameter of a brand new factory round, drilling a hole just big enough for the round to pass in one of the angle's side pieces. This became my "go" gage re diameter. Then, I put the angle iron in a vise, with the other side piece "up", and used a hacksaw to make two cuts, "three or four 'hairs' short of the published case length. Not too many strokes with a mill bastard file removed enough material to be deep enough for a case. Finally, I took slow, deliberate strokes of the file to make this opening the perfect published case length.
The bottom line is in less than an hour, I had made a tool which quickly showed bulged cases, as well as overages in length. At zero expense!
I have a very slight notion that uniformity of loading maximizes potential accuracy. And, the length of the case, if varying, will also vary crimping. Hence, I do believe you ARE on the right track in getting the lengths the same.
I have MANY L.E. Wilson gages, and swear by them! GREAT tool! However, imho, their worth is particularly of value re bottleneck cases. For straight ones, like the .38 S&W Special, I believe a home-made tool like I described functions as well.
BEST!
georgerkahn

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Back in my match shooting days I used to trim 38 spl cases by running them into an RCBS trim die and trimming them with a file. Anything that was above the top of the die was smoothed off by the file. The die also FL sized the cases at the same time. The trimming was not always necessary, but the extra work did occasionally catch one that had grown slightly. Otherwise I never bothered to gauge my 38 brass. LLS

[Scharfschuetze]

What tool are you folks using to trim?? Forster, Hornady, Wilson, something else??
Thanks, Shiloh

All the major manufacturers seem to make a version of a case trimmer. I've probably used most of them over the years and most do a credible job. RCBS and Lyman tools with a motorized accessory make quick work of lots of brass of any calibre or design. The most accurate ones are probably the trim and form dies like Le Soup describes in his post or the Wilson trim die set up that also uses dies to hold the various cartridge types.

Give me a minute and I'll get a photo for you.

Here are the tools currently on my bench: RCBS tim die, Wilson trim tool and a Lyman tool. When processing large batches of cases, the Lyman with a motorized adapter gets the nod. For accuracy when processing 600 yard and 1,000 yard match rifle ammo the Wilson (blue tool) or specific RCBS trim dies get the nod.

[Char-Gar]

I have been using the same Wilson trimmer since 1959 and just last year sent the cutter back to be sharpened. For all handgun (and rifle as well), I use the press in/out case holders. I have a cheap Harbor Freight arbor press next to the trimmer which handles that task quickly. This set up allows me to have a uniform length regardless of case make or rim thickness.

I have file type trimmers, but they only trim cases that are too long and out of spec and do not produce a uniform case length unless all the cases are too long and out of spec.

Here is pic of the press, but with a Lyman FL hand sizing die which I often uses as well. The press makes short and easy work of this task with a longer handles installed. I think that is a 45 Colt case in the die. I load a lot of old balloon head 45 Colt cases whose rims won't fit in the press shell holder. I FL size with the arbor press and finish the task with the Lyman 310 tool. This is slow, but works just fine.

[country gent]

If you have access to a mill a simple go no go fixed gage can be made from steel flat stock easily. On one side mill a slot 1" deep and square. move down to min dimension of 3/8 spl case. this is go limit raise cutter up 1/2" and mill to max this is no go section. You want each pad 1/2" tall and 1/2" wide so a piece of stock 1/2X1 1/2X probably 21/2 long should work. This gives min max check of brass quick and easy. I perfer calipers to check case lengths and will zero out my digitals on size and read the + or - from mean dimension. As to trimming there are many trimmers out there The Lees are inexpensive do a good job and are set for length. the redding lymann rcbs wilson lathe type cutters are good and can be very accurate if ran consistently. The power trimmers are quicker and easier to use if you trim large amounts of brass, they require a power source and may need to be mounted more solidly. Foresster makes a collet stand and cutter pilot to be used in a drill press this relies on the accuracy of the drill presses stop but can be quick and accurate. If you want to trim 38 spl cases there are many options available. One nice thing about the lathe type trimmers is they can normmaly be used for other cartridges with just a change of the pilot. Also when trimming brass you need to control contain those fine sharp chips your making.

[robg]

I tried trlming 357brass ,don't anymore they never needed it , necks split first.

[Shiloh]

I'm currently looking at the feasibility of making one for sized cases. I saw that Wilson make a case holder for both 38's and .357.
A call to Wilson said that you can do both with the 38 Q die. Why not with the press in die??

Shiloh

[Char-Gar]

I'm currently looking at the feasibility of making one for sized cases. I saw that Wilson make a case holder for both 38's and .357.
A call to Wilson said that you can do both with the 38 Q die. Why not with the press in die??

Shiloh

With the press in die, the case is sized a smidgen toward the mouth to hold the case firmly in the die for trimming. A 357 case in a 38 die will be sized to far. A 38 case in a 357 die won't stick out of the die for trimming.

[Cherokee]

I have found lately that 38 and 357 cases vary widely in length and it was creating problems in getting too little or excessive belling of the case mouths. I now sort cases by length and trim long cases to fit the more common length. Makes for smoother running in the XL650, and better ammo.

[shtur]

I have been measuring 38 special wad cutter brass for uniformity. I bought some once fired Remington wc brass, the type that was the standard all other cases had to measure against, it averaged 1.148". It was below the 1.155" listed as "perfect". I then received a box of Peters wc brass, it averaged 1.160". I have been trimming my case with a Lee case gage trimmer to get them all the same length, since I will be using them with 148gr wad cutter bullets.

For my plinking loads, letting others shoot my pistol, I do not measure nor trim that brass. My shooting friends dislike shooting at paper - they're the type that never want to see their groups, and especially want to hide their groups.

[Char-Gar]

I spent the morning sorting old pics and found these of me trimming 38 Special brass with a Wilson trimmer and press in shell holders. I trim all brass to the same length, regardless of make or use.

[paul edward]

If you are looking for a speedier way to trim cases, the L. E. Wilson Case Length Gage is not your best solution. You might try Lee's new Quick Trim.

For many years, I have used an L.E. Wilson Case Trimmer on .44 Russian, Special and Magnum; and while precise, it is also slow.
Also have a Foster which is a bit faster, and some of the older Lee trimmers. While I have not yet tried the new Lee Quick Trim, it looks like it will be even faster still.

[Scharfschuetze]

My shooting friends dislike shooting at paper - they're the type that never want to see their groups, and especially want to hide their groups.

That's a hoot! It certainly does describe a few of the "marksmen" that I see from time to time.

Back on topic now. While I have not used it, the Gracey case trimmer is used by a few of my old NM shooting friends and they claim that it is as fast as anything for trimming large numbers of rifle cases.

[Char-Gar]

Here is a pic of good crimping on the 38 Special. Every case is uniform and length, but the bullets are quite different. Seat the bullets with a die in the press and crimp with an old Belding and Mull die using the arbor press. No fail, no fuss or bother and a uniform crimp every time. Yes, slow for certain, but this is the way I do things.