mixing pure with w.w.s, how much is too much?

[Oklahoma Rebel]

so far I have collected and ingoted?lol about 150+ pounds of c.o. wheel weights and today I got about 50-60 pounds of stick-ons. if I mix them all into one alloy do you guys think it would be getting too soft. right now when I cast bullets I slow cool them in deep sawdust to make them as soft as possible, so I guess if it turns out too soft for my liking I can just water drop them. what is y'alls opinion?
thanks a lot,
Travis

[Cowboy_Dan]

That alloy is actually harder than what I use for most things. For the most part I use a 50/50 mix of coww and pure-ish lead. Some things, like the Tokarev, eat straight coww with a smidge of tin. Regarding your plan, I believe there is some value keeping your seperate alloys seperated and mixing them in the casting pot. It is a lot easier than unmixing them later.

[smoked turkey]

I don't know exactly how to answer your question but I will tell you what my findings have been for developing a hunting load. I have settled on a 50/50 mix. That is half COWW and half soft lead. I did some penetration and expansion testing into wet paper. I found that the 50/50 mix gave me the best of both worlds with my 35 Whelen. Good penetration and good expansion. With my particular COWW I experienced some boolit break-up and inadequate penetration into the wet medium. From memory it seems the penetration went from about 9" to 16" when I switched to the 50/50 mix. In addition the boolit tended to stay together and produce more expansion. In other words I was getting boolit breakup which greatly reduced expansion. I did this for a black bear hunt I did last year. The boolit pass through and the off side wound was perfect boolit performance in a hunting boolit. If you are going to just shoot paper I would stick with straight wheel weights. This is just been my experience and your results may vary.

[fryboy]

Your question isn't valid without a intended usage, different calibers AND different loading levels have different demands ....just from your sig line ... The 45/70 hails from the day when most projectiles were dead soft lead and as such it can still work today ( providing you are loading them to original type loads )
The mosin can use the same alloy with a gas check if it's held to around the same pressure levels once the levels start to go up so does the need for a tougher alloy
How then without pertinent details could we honestly answer ? One of my favorite alloys consist of 4 parts lead to one part ww's but ...that's a low pressure alloy,I also like Lyman #2 ( waste of resources that is ) for some applications
Straight ww's will cover 80-90% of most caster's needs yet is overkill for some [shrugz]

[45-70 Chevroner]

Be sure to check those stick-ons for zink, not all stick-ons are the same. If they cut easily with a knife it's probably pure or close to it.

[bangerjim]

I NEVER mix up large batches of anything. I keep each & every alloy and pure in individual 1# ingots and then add them in the casting pots to arrive at my intended 9-12 alloy. Pure Sn is in 1/4# ingots. Mark everything with HF steel stamps with a simple 2 or 3 letter code.

Mixing up a HUUUUUUGE batch of "stuff" prevents you from easily changing in the future.

Keep them all separate is my rule. Much more flexible.

And be sure and download the free alloy calculator spreadsheet on here. It will answer all your "what if?" questions like this one. Do a search in the white box at the top of the page.

banger

[Green Frog]

Good points have been made above... first you need to define your need. I basically cast 3 groups of bullets and the alloys are just about mutually exclusive. For muzzle loaders/Civil War stuff, it's pure lead, period. For most loads for the revolvers and semi-autos, it's wheel weights with just a smidge of tin so they will fill out well. Schuetzen is another game, and the requirements are different as well. My bullets for this game demand a standard mix of 25 to 1 pure lead to tin. As I have time, I like to have ingots of pure lead, cleaned and processed wheel weights (which I don't premix with tin) my standard Schuetzen alloy, and pure tin. In this way, when I begin a casting session, I can quickly be casting whichever of my 3 "basic" alloys I need, or on the rare occasions I change something, I am at a point where I can adjust quickly. I really like having these basic touch points rather than starting from scratch, and for the one alloy I mix specifically (25-1) I find that semi-large batches make my bullets more consistent, which is a good thing!

To the OP on his situation, I would check those stick-ons and make sure they really are lead, then render them all down to ingots and keep them marked and stored separately from my COWWs, then search up some tin in small sticks, bars or wire, and I'd consider myself good to go. Good, that is, until I could find some more pure lead, some wheel weights, a little more tin, and then if I could get some linotype in case the COWWs ran low... and so it goes.)

Froggie

[40-82 hiker]

Travis,

While you check through your SOWWs looking for zinc, sort out the hard lead ones, adding them to the COWWs, as they are pretty much the same as the COWWs. The remaining SOWWs are nearly pure lead.

Whatever you do: Please listen to all advice given so far to NOT mix it all together when you smelt it. You will regret that one day, probably sooner than later.

Good luck!

[scottfire1957]

How soft is "too soft?" What hardness, or softness, are you looking for? Have you used the alloy calculator at all? Magnum or non-magnum calibers? Pistol or rifle? Revolver or semiauto? Plinking or precision? Lube or coating?

Edit grammer and speeling.

[243winxb]

if I mix them all into one alloy do you guys think it would be getting too soft. Yes, for any bullets i cast. With the exception of the slug and ball (pure lead). http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/castbullets.jpg

[TXGunNut]

That alloy is actually harder than what I use for most things. For the most part I use a 50/50 mix of coww and pure-ish lead. Some things, like the Tokarev, eat straight coww with a smidge of tin. Regarding your plan, I believe there is some value keeping your seperate alloys seperated and mixing them in the casting pot. It is a lot easier than unmixing them later.

What he said, lol. I use 50/50 for most hunting boolits, heat treat it for anything much over 1900 fps or so. Most handgun boolits I use pure WW's to conserve my pure lead. I also use the pure lead to make round balls for my muzzleloaders. But like Cowboy Dan I smelt them separately and mix them after I decide what kind of boolits I want to make. I keep some tin around to help with fillout when needed.

[44man]

SO weights can be anything from zinc, lead, even aluminum. Sort the batch by hand. Some will be little squares of pure with tape, others painted.
Melt them at 600° ONLY and skim all that do not melt. You take a chance of ruining your whole lead stash.
How much pure you add depends on what your guns like. Do NOT do the whole batch because many guns are better with straight WW lead.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

sorry I must have been in a hurry. it is for my 45-70 at about 1350 fps and for hunting/ target. also in the near future I am planning on getting a ruger sbh in 44mag. my though was I could water quench for the 45-70 and air cool for the 44.mag if I did make on big batch. the thing is I don't have an ingot mold so I couldn't mix smaller batches as needed and hope to get a consistent alloy. if I missed anything that you guys need to know let me know. oh yeah I plan on loading the 44 mag with 21.3-21.8 for 1200-1300fps. thankyou guys
Travis