decided on luber/sizer- I think

[rifleshooter]

I'm leaning very much toward the RCBS, one reason is customer service and their replacement of parts if anything breaks. two is cost . any comments of suggestions from anyone who has one is appreciated., Todd

[ktw]

I have one RCBS LAMII, one Lyman 450, one Star, and a selection of the Lee dies.

You pretty much need a separate unit for each type of lube you want to use. The RCBS contains speed green and I use it for rifle boolits. The Lyman and the Star contain NRA 50-50 and get used primarily for handgun boolits.

You can run into problems with long, skinny bulllets and concentric sizing in the Lyman and RCBS units IF you don't have a proper top punch and are not careful. I prefer to lube and apply gas checks in these units with a die close to as cast diameter. If they need to be sized down significantly I do that in a separate step after the bullets are lubed with the Lee sizers, which do a better job of it.

The Star is nice unit and great for volume but its not cheap and can be a pain to set up for small runs.

I think either the Lyman or the RCBS unit, augmented with a couple of the Lee sizers, is a good place to start.

-ktw

[Rex Driver]

Rifleshooter, I have used an RCBS unit for years with trouble free operation. I can not say anything about any other brands because after I bought the RCBS I saw no reason to change. You are right about the RCBS warranty, none better.

[Shiloh]

Bought a Lyman 450 used years ago. The equipment was probably third or fourth hand and spent the last decade in a box in the garage before I bought it for $10 in the mid 80's. Then it sat in my basement for about ten years until I started casting all my boolits. One used to be able to purchase cast boolits for not much money. After some replacement parts from Lyman, it runs like a champ. This is the only lubrisizer that I have experience with.

Shiloh :castmine:

[Dale53]

I have a Lyman, an RCBS, and a Star. These days I shoot mostly revolvers so the Star gets the call. I believe that the RCBS is better made than the Lyman. The Star is the champ but it IS a bit pricey.

Do not discount the Lee method. It uses a single stage press so strength is NOT an issue and does a superior job with large, soft bullets (I use it for Black Powder Cartridge bullets with excellent results). If money is a problem (and most of us have "been there", check out the Lee method.

Dale53

[hawkeye1]

I moved up to the RCBS from the Lee. I love it. It works just as advertised and is so easy. I will never look back. One of the best things I bought in a long time.

good shooting

[Boomer Mikey]

I have 2 Saeco, 3 RCBS, and 2 Lyman 450's.

The strongest is the RCBS, I use them for the big caliber work, 35 and up. I use the Lyman 450's for 6mm, 7mm and 30 cal, they have broken several times while doing 44/45 caliber work and are the weakest. I haven't had any problems after limiting their use to the smaller calibers. The Saeco doesn't have enough leverage to do anything serious with big calibers but it is by far the most accurate. Saeco dies are superior to the H&I dies and I wouldn't consider using anything else for precision 30, 7mm, 6mm and 22 caliber work.

Following the example of superior results using the nose first process of the Lee and the Star sizers; I size and seat gas checks on bullets nose first and then lube them in another operation with a die .001" larger than the original sizing die. This also allows me the option of heat treating bullets after sizing and storage sans lube until I need them. Until I started the nose first sizing process I had problems with out of round bullets - especially using the Lyman 450's. This process requires a perfectly flat - base punch - to push the bullet base into the die squarely. The sizing process pushes the gas check flat against the bullet base and the result is a round bullet guided into the die by it's ojive and uniformly flat bullet bases. I make the base punches on a lathe and have an advantage in being able to make the punch fit the sizers punch stem hole in the ram exactly and making the punch fit the sizing die diameter precisely to limit lube leakage.

I even use the RCBS lubrisizer to bump-up bullets to fit a couple of over normal (.434" & .460") bore size rifles. Only the RCBS is strong enough for this service with the heavy duty side plates and longer handles I made for them.

I considered getting a couple of Star sizers but life is short, and I already have all the regular size and many custom size dies that interchange with the Lyman and RCBS sizers.

If I was going to buy a new sizer for general purpose work I would get an RCBS... if a Lyman 450 came along at a great price I wouldn't hesitate to scarf it up either. The STAR and SAECO sizers are better quality with superior dies that demand superior prices.

Boomer :Fire:

[oscar]

Boomer,

How do you mount the SAECO? It looks like you have some kind of parrallel bar system that allows you to change the angle of the whole unit relative to the work bench.

Oscar

[jleneave]

Boomer Mikey, Can you tell me how to "bump up" the bullet size using a lube/sizer? I have a Magma Star lube/sizer, can it be done with this unit? I have a Lyman mold #429421 that is dropping bullets at .429" diameter and I want to bump them up to .430" or even .431" if that is possible. The sizer currently has a .430"diameter in it but I am going to order a .431" die for it soon. The .429" bullets are causing a little leading in the barrel of my Ruger SBH. Thanks.

Jody

[quasi]

Boomer, what is with the gussets and sniped handles on the RCBS sizers?

[Boomer Mikey]

Hi Guys,

This thread will answer your questions:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=8538

I'm not familiar with the STAR as I don't own one, I use the RCBS for bumping up boolits as it's the strongest I have.

I replace the RCBS handle with a 1" diameter solid aluminum one and make a set of 1/4" thick side plates to go with it. The 12" long handle was moved to my lighter duty RCBS sizer and replaced with an 18" long handle for more leverage. All the RCBS sizers use a 1" diameter ram... I just aquired another RCBS II sizer; I'll make another set of side plates and a 12" long handle for it as well.

I control the length and diameter of the “bumped-up” bullets by lowering the depth rod until the bullet isn’t compressed at all and raise the depth rod half a turn at a time until I got close to the desired size, then fine tune the depth adjustment. Adjustment is very repeatable. Diameter "growth" is controlled by bottoming the nose punch on top of the sizing die. Best results are obtained using a nose punch a little larger than the original. I've found that the boolits tend to grow in size from the bottom-up. Gas checks seat and size-up with the bullet perfectly.

The 2 RCBS II sizers do 45-70, 45 LC and 44 Mag work while an RCBS I does all my 357 & 375/38-55 work; 2 Lyman 450's do 30 cal, 7mm and 270 cal general work (100 yards.) All precision (long range 200m +) 30, 7mm, 270, 243, and 22 work is done on 2 Saeco's.

A 0.431" sizer die is the smallest I use for the 44 Magnum.

Boomer :Fire:

[jleneave]

Boomer, thanks for the link. That is a real nice reloading setup you have there. I must be a little slow because I still don't quite understand how you get the bullets to bump up. Are you using a solid sizing die and a custom punch and then use the press to squeeze the bullets between the solid die and punch?? Sorry for being a pain in the A$$.

Jody

[Drilling Man]

I'm leaning very much toward the RCBS, one reason is customer service and their replacement of parts if anything breaks. two is cost . any comments of suggestions from anyone who has one is appreciated., Todd


I've owned both Lyman and RCBS luber sizers, used both a lot, and i liked them both. I didn't have any problems with either one.

DM

[Boomer Mikey]

Boomer, thanks for the link. That is a real nice reloading setup you have there. I must be a little slow because I still don't quite understand how you get the bullets to bump up. Are you using a solid sizing die and a custom punch and then use the press to squeeze the bullets between the solid die and punch?? Sorry for being a pain in the A$$.

Jody

Exactly!

Use a nose punch with a meplate slightly larger than the bullet's existing meplate and drop the bullet into the larger size die, then squeeze the bullet between the top of the sizer die punch that's been turned flat to get a square, flat base and the nose punch that will bottom out on top of the sizing die. The depth adjustment controls the volume between the top of the die's punch and the nose punch.

If you wanted to put a meplate on a roundnose rifle bullet like the 311291 to use it in a 30-30 you would do the same thing... place a nose punch in the ram with a flat on it and squeeze the bullet to create a flat on top of the nose. If the sizing die was larger than the existing bullet and you squeezed it hard enough, the bullet will become shorter and fatter as the metal is molded by pressure to fill the cavity.

Boomer :Fire:

[carpetman]

I started with a Lyman and nary a problem, but I found a steal on a RCBS and gave the Lyman to a son in law as bait for him to start casting. Those Lymans don't seem to make good bait---if so it sure is slow. To compare the two, the RCBS does seem to hold pressure slightly better as in I might get a bullet or two more in between operating the lube feed---no big deal---hardly worth my efforts to mention it. The RCBS does have their great warantee---in fact, I didnt like their toggle handle for lube feed. The older RCBS did use a ratchet as does the Lyman. So I wanted to modify my RCBS for ratchet. The old style bolt doesnt work on the new style. So I needed to modify a new bolt. RCBS sent me a new bolt to modify as well as the ratchet----free--they knew nothing wtong with their product and this was just a case of personal preference. With new bolt,my gunsmith/machinist friend milled a hex on the top of the bolt and the ratchet goes on it. I think a person could do a so so workable job of this mod with hacksaw and file---but it is better to have a machinist mill the hex. Don't get a witch doctor to do it---they deal with a totally different hex.

[Dale53]

I would like to caution those who may be encouraged to "over do" the "bumping" of bullets in ANY sizer. Moderate bumping will work fine. However, the combination of large, Hard bullets, and extensive reforming MAY lead to a multipiece lube/sizer and you could even be hurt. Extending the handle length leads to increasing pressure that may do more than you anticipate.

Extensive reforming of hard bullets really calls for a "made for the task" bullet swaging press with appropriate dies. See some of the Corbin swaging outfits for reference.

We really don't need any injured reloaders or equipment failures.

Be safe, good people... moderation in all things.

Dale53

[dromia]

I have a Lyman 45, a 450 and a 4500 with heater as well as 3 RCBS LAMs one being the older version with the ratchet. I also have a bespoke Vickers lube sizer for .577" boolits but that doesn't count in this thread as its a one off.

All the Lymans and RCBS's work well and I'd be happy with any of them if I just had to have one.

If I had to make a call on the best then it would be the RCBS (older version with the ratchet) because of RCBS's warranty, they are also less likely to leak but thats easily fixed and is usually due to excessive pressure on the lube.

Why such a selection? well thats just what I came up with second hand, see a lubsizer and I buy it as I like to use a variety of lubes for different applications and changing lube is a real pain. Second hand lubsizers are cheap.

I got the new Lyman 4500 as I needed a heater for Lars Carnauba Red lube and with the exchange rate being so good it was worth my while getting a new one.

The 4500 doesn't yet have the track record of the others but from the 4-5000 boolits I've put through it so far it seems like the best Lyman to date, not that the others aren't good.

I haven't sprung for a Star as I don't do big enough runs of the same boolit size to warrant it, I will be getting a SAECO at some point to round off the collection however. :-D

Its another fine lubesizer that I do have some experience of, however the lack of interchangability with Lyman and RCBS dies and top punches have been an barrier. I do use a Lot of .314" boolits so I'll get one dedicated to that size.

Then if I come across a Star at a good price who knows.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Boys and our toys. [smilie=1: :-D :castmine: :-D

[Boomer Mikey]

Modify the pressure screw like this?

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/9030/RCBS_Lubrisizer_Handle-3.JPG

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/9030/Bumping-Up_Bullet_Size-9.JPG

I don't imply that this is a swaging operation at all... bumping a bullet up 0.002" or 0.003" is the max at 44 - 45 caliber. Anything smaller than 35 caliber isn't practical and bore riding boolit designs need not apply... unless you want a larger bore riding nose to work with.

It sure is handy when you have one or two 44 caliber guns in your safe that need a 0.434" boolit for a 0.433" groove diameter and your largest as cast boolits are 0.432" - 0.4325"... or you want to create or make a larger meplate on an existing boolit.

Don't try this with a Lyman sizer... it won't explode but you will break a 1/4" bolt in the handle/lever linkage. No big deal if you have another 1/4"-20 thread bolt to replace it with and I wouldn't expose a Saeco sizer to this either; they use an alignment fixture to set-up the sizer, IMO you'll bend the guide rods and ruin the alignment.

I haven't broken anything on the RCBS sizers with the longer handles and 1/4" thick side plates yet... I'm sure I could. The 1/4" bolts in the compound leverage linkage are the weakest link now that I've replaced the weak handle; they'll shear before anything dramatic happens. With an 18" long handle you can rip the sizer off the bench though... don't ask.

This certainly is a testament to the durability of the RCBS design but I'm not getting rid of my Lyman and Saeco sizers, they have their place on my loading bench as well.

Boomer :Fire:

[jahela]

That's what I made:
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7636&stc=1&d=1212129380
The cylinder has 50 mm diameter, above is a magnet to hold the handle/lever.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7637&stc=1&d=1212129420
The pump is usually for bike-forks, it allows 20 bar, 10-12 bar are enough.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7638&stc=1&d=1212129431
the blue part is a "push-valve", it allows deventing.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7635&stc=1&d=1212129364
In the hole of the table I installed a light bulb for heating, regulated by a plug-in-dimmer.

[EDK]

If you're primarily a rifle shooter, get either the LYMAN or RCBS for the reasons above.

If you're a volume pistol shooter, get the STAR....along with four or six cavity moulds!

I have a LYMAN 4500 for rifle and low volume stuff...full of LARS' Black Powder lube. The STAR is set up for pistol...for the most part. MAGMA doesn't give their stuff away, but I've had good service. They even made a .512 so I could lube boolits for my 50/90 SHILOH SHARPS. (I bet the person who machined it scratched his head when he got that work order!) Changing the dies in the STAR isn't much worse than the LYMAN or RCBS and once you understand its' quirks, you can adjust the STAR for different style boolits quickly.

Differences of opinion is what makes horse races and elections interesting. Your results may differ from mine.

:Fire::redneck::cbpour: