Casting big huge Boolits? Help!

[ShooterAZ]

I'm struggling with a new mold...I bought an Accurate 55-430M 2 Cavity. It's a big ol' muzzleloader boolit for my 54 cal Deerstalker. As much as I will be shooting this boolit, I probably should have just bought a 1 cavity. Anyway...I thoroughly cleaned it, gave it 3 heat cycles and cleaned it again, preheated and cast with pure lead. Not so many keepers. I tried temps between 700, 725, 750 and 800 degrees...still not so many keepers. I poured fast, I poured slow, I swirled and even held my mouth different...still not so many keepers. (Poor band fill-out) I never had this much difficulty finding the sweet spot with a mold. I'm using an RCBS Pro-Melt bottom pour. Do I need to buy a ladle for this mold? Will a tiny bit of tin help? Any other suggestions?

[Edward]

Try a little tin with your pure it works for me.

[bangerjim]

I don't do BP, but Sn always help with fill-out and will not add to the hardness much at all. I always add 2% Sn to my 9-15 mixes for normal boolits. Really helps with fills.

Are you REALLY pre-heating to FULL CASTING TEMP, or just "warming up" the mold? I heat all molds to full casting temp (that is really hot! Not just warm) and get excellents drops from #1, irregardless of the weight of the boolit.

If you don't already have a bottom/side pour ladel, don't waste your time and $$. I have one and rarely ever use it. My bottom pour pot does everything I need every time.


good luck!

Banger

[ShooterAZ]

I'm REALLY heating the mold up to full casting temp!

[johnson1942]

as stated above a little tin and something else the old timers used, silver. get a small roll of silver solder wire that melts around 700 or so degrees. cut a piece, not much, off of it and throw that in to pot also with a little tin. bet it will make a difference.

[mooman76]

It's common for big moulds to do better with a ladle for some reason. Is this a Hollow based mould? I have a hollow based mould in 54. Not user of the weight, I bought it used and had a heck of a time with it. Not sure if I ever got it to cast a good boolit. The pin makes it difficult because it's hard to keep hot being separate from the mould.

Add some tin, crank the heat all the way up and if that don't work, try a ladle.

[ShooterAZ]

It's not a hollow base. I have some tin, so I will add a pinch and go from there. Thanks for the replies.

[fryboy]

The tin,perhaps a few more using cycles ( helps sometimes ) a bit more heat ( especially with pure ) and as a last resort the ladle pour ... You could also try pressure casting a few first, oh wait a sometimes trick I use is to shade the problem areas with a #2 pencil ( works kind of like smoking the cavities on problem children )

[dilly]

I'm betting you already know this, but you can adjust the flow rate on the spigot for your Pro-Melt and it will probably help fill out on the big bullets.

[5Shot]

When I am casting big 45 stuff (350-430grns) I always keep pouring for a 4 count after I see the puddle jump, and I try to pour slower, in order to give the air time to escape. This helps a lot - although it can be messy.

[ogre]

By far my best results with large bullets come from using a ladle.

[nagantguy]

Thought I was gonna swoop in an save the day buy saying add tin and try ladle pouring but once again day late and dollars short. Also was gonna say with big 50 Cal holes leave a large sprue, really fill her up...but that's also been said. I hope these sage words help you on your quest.

[ShooterAZ]

I may smoke the mold with a bic lighter just for grins.

[triggerhappy243]

Me personally.... I use a ladle........ a large ladle.......... large enough to hold 4 ounces. I flood the sprue plate. Nice steady flowing stream.

[5Shot]

Me personally.... I use a ladle........ a large ladle.......... large enough to hold 4 ounces. I flood the sprue plate. Nice steady flowing stream.

+1...

[rockrat]

I have no trouble with my 850gr 50 cals. and an RCBS bottom pour. I preheat on a hot plate and put the end of the mould (1/4" or so) in the hot lead (710 degrees) for a minute at the most after taking off the hot plate(turned up all the way). Usually get good boolits within the third cast.

[oldracer]

The heaviest I cast as paper patch 560 grain and pretty much do what rockrat said he does. I clean the mold first with Balistol, then I startup the hot plate and set it to maximum and put the molds on it with some foil on top to keep the heat in. I startup the pot and let it get to 700 degrees by measuring and cycle a bit of lead out to one of the ingots and then dump it back in. I make sure the pot is full and then sit the mold on the top of the lead for a few minutes. I pour the first bullet by putting the outlet of the pot right into the sprue plate and let some ease out. After 20 seconds or so I dump the bullet and it'll have a few wrinkles and then repeat and after about 3 pours the bullets become nice and smooth. It took me a while to get used to casting with the pot outlet right into the sprue plate but a couple folks told me it is like pressurizing the mold and seems to work well.

[docone31]

Let it cool, then soak it in mineral spirits over night. If that does not work, then cast through a nut with the sprue plate to the side. Make about 4 of each cavity. Let each one fall out with the nut attached. Let cool. Then coat lightly with Clover and replace in the cavity. Gently close the mold, and easily turn the casting with the Clover. Let the handles close gently with the casting rotating. Do both cavities.
Pure lead should fill out easily with proper heat in the mold, clean cavity, that also means machined clean, and a six second count to freeze. Too fast and the pour is too cool. Too slowly and the melt is too hot. Either cast quicker, or slower to adjust the temp.
Lots of molds are grainy and in the machining process, chips become planished in the walls of the mold. Mineral spirits gets the oil out, and the trick with the Clover removes the stubborn rest. A Muzzie can tolerate a little growth in thickness so a newbie can get good results first time. Tooth brushes, tooth paste, baking soda only works with the not so stuck flash.
Good luck and good shooting.

[waarp8nt]

I had issues with a new "old stock" Ohaus .58 caliber hollow base mold. Thoroughly cleaned the mold with a paint prep oil remover and carburetor cleaner. I cast out several poor fills with the mold, I mean several and cleaned it again. Trial and error made me believe the mold had to be hot and a ladle pouring worked best. So, I pull out the old hot plate and cast iron pot for that mold each and every time. Even though I learned the mold, I still expect several poor fills before it starts turning out good boolits.

[quilbilly]

About two size 7 tin splitshot fishing sinkers per pound seems to help a lot for me. You can get a small bag of them at you local Walmart for a couple bucks for an experiment

[Sharpsman]

If you have a gas/butane stove.....light it and stick your mould directly into the flames and leave for 2 1/2 minutes. Remove from the flame and hold the mould about 2" away from your cheek. When you can feel the heat radiate to your skin....it's hot enough to pour! Your mould WILL NOT warp from being in the fire!

[country gent]

On my big moulds I use a ladle and a big pot. 20-1 lead tin alloy. I run lead around 700* and pre heat mould on side of pot while lead heats up to temp. I dont pour for a sprue but pour a full ladle of lead into cavity at a medium fill rate letting excess run back into pot. Ladle stays submersed in pot while emptying mould keeping it hot. This keeps the bullet hot as long as possible allowing mould to completely fill and gasses air to exit. A 6-7 second wait for bullet to cool and set up. Big bullets can be tricky to pour as they want to start cooling before mould is filled. Idealy you want a sprue that stays molten for several seconds before it "frosts" over. Getting the mould up to temp requires a quick pace. Getting the sprue plate up top temp is an issue at times and it will suck alot of heat out of the lead flowing thru it. I have some plates made from 1/4" gage stock the extra thickness makes a nice sprue but it does take longer to heat them up. Warm the blocks good close to casting temp run lead in the 700* range, cast at a quick pace and cast dont try to sort and cast it slows you down to much, HAve the mould cleaned dry and hinge points lubed.

[bigted]

Heat is your friend when pouring pure lead. I cast pure lead just lower in temp from turning blue hint on the boolits.

Also when casting very heavy boolits ( asentioned above) I ladel them and allow several seconds before cutting the sprue and opening the mold ... I count to 15 for the time frame ( after the sprue hardens).

It requires patients and perseverance and "being in the spirit" of the casting enjoyment.

[StolzerandSons]

Aside from what everyone has mentioned the other thing that you might consider/try as a last resort is enlarging the sprue/pour hole. I've never had to do it on a standard mold but on very large round balls like 8,6,4 and 2 bore I have had to drill out the sprue/pour hole to allow the mold to fill faster.

Basically the hole could be restricting the flow and preventing a full fillout as the lead is cooling before it has time to fill properly.

Hope this helps.

[idahoron]

I am also in the camp that says Ladle. I have a lee bottom pour and when I went to using a ladle it solved my problem. I am also using 1000 grains of chilled lead shot per 10 pounds of certified pure lead. The little bit of tin in the shot makes it flow much better and the ladle is the key in my opinion.

[Newtire]

By far my best results with large bullets come from using a ladle.
Same here. Maybe you need to get that mould a little hotter. I hear propane torches are out but I know a guy it works for! So far, no mould warpings. Use common sense.

[longbow]

I'll go with adding tin as well and check venting. Make sure the vent grooves are clear and make sure the sprue plate is not too tight. I usually loosen off sprue plates so they almost swing free and even use a diamond home to bevel the top edges of the mould blocks under the sprue plate to provide better venting.

Not sure how fast your pot valve pours but I suspect it may not be providing enough flow for the large boolits. Is the valve adjustable? Could there be some dross blocking the hole and restricting flow?

I am a confirmed ladle caster as I gave up on electric pots about 40 years ago. I find the simple open ladle easier to pour large boolits and I cast a lot of large round balls and shotgun slugs.

On that note, I have in some cases opened up the sprue hole a bit in some moulds as the sprue hole is the same size for a .30 cal. boolit as a 12 ga. slug. The larger cavity may require a little larger sprue opening.

Longbow

[ShooterAZ]

I was finally able to get this mold dialed in over the weekend, it's awesome! It likes it hot. I cast an entire Promelt pot of them on Saturday, perfect boolits from the second or third pour on till finished. I went out yesterday and tried them and was very impressed by the accuracy of this bullet (55-430M). It's a winner for sure.

[TenTea]

I was finally able to get this mold dialed in over the weekend, it's awesome! It likes it hot. I cast an entire Promelt pot of them on Saturday, perfect boolits from the second or third pour on till finished. I went out yesterday and tried them and was very impressed by the accuracy of this bullet (55-430M). It's a winner for sure.

Great !

Thanks for the thread as it is currently pertinent to my interests...

[RhodeHunter]

I was finally able to get this mold dialed in over the weekend, it's awesome! It likes it hot. I cast an entire Promelt pot of them on Saturday, perfect boolits from the second or third pour on till finished. I went out yesterday and tried them and was very impressed by the accuracy of this bullet (55-430M). It's a winner for sure.

Any details about load, lube, and the accuracy? I have the same rifle, but only have the round ball molds.

[ShooterAZ]

Here are some details: I was using 85 grains of Goex 2F powder, a Remington #11 cap, the 55-430M boolit, no wad. I was using plain ol' Bore Butter for lube. I have the Lyman 57SML peep sight mounted on my rifle, and the first five shots clustered into one ragged hole at 100 yards from a sandbag rest. I was impressed to say the least! 162285

Added a link for the boolit:http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=55-430M-D.png

[Texantothecore]

Most moulds cast very well at 325 f. It takes a while on top of the melter to get it to that temperature. And it is not unusual to get your first good bullets on the fourth pour. No idea why, but it seems to be consistent from mould to mould. I just write off the first pours as break in.

[RhodeHunter]

Here are some details: I was using 85 grains of Goex 2F powder, ...


Thank you for sharing!! I just learned some good info for my rifle.

[ShooterAZ]

To those of you who inquired about me selling these boolits, sorry but I'm not gonna sell any of them. I can tell you this, I did quite a bit of research before I bought this mold. I asked Tom to cut my mold at .551 at the top band, everything else was "as is". Like I said earlier, it needs to be cast pretty darn hot 800+ degrees, with the mold really, really hot as well. They are dropping wonderfully now, nice and shiny with perfect fill out. If you have a Lyman Deerstalker or Great Plains rifle in 54 caliber with a 1/48 twist, this boolit "should" shoot very good in your rifle. As always, you may have to do a bit of trial & error with the powder charge, but I got lucky on 85 grains of Goex 2F on the very first go-around. I did not chrono the load, but I plan on testing in 2.5 grain increments up to 100 grains or so, and chrono and zero my sights. I hope I get drawn for ML Elk this year, if I do I'm gonna use this boolit.

[Chill Wills]

Hmmm,
That is very cool! Great accuracy!
Did you end up using tin or did the higher pot heat get it casting like you wanted?

In my experience, pure Pb likes a lot of heat and 850 is baseline good. Add a dipper to a hot pot of pure and no tin needed but you may have needed some with the bottom pour.

I hope you draw and shoot a nice elk!

PS - if you rest the mold and dipper on the side (top) of the cold pot at start-up and cover all with a small square of tinfoil, (not the wood handles) the first casting out of the mold will be a keeper.

[triggerhappy243]

that is an awesome group. 100 yards.... wow.

[54bore]

I just recently bought a bag of 20 BIG BOOLITS (625 grain) for my new .58 cal from October Country, I would never do that again!! When I got home and opened the bag I found 9 culls with various deformities, i had a small shopping list of odds and ends to get that day and I simply didn't pay enough attention to the bullets until I got home, I weighed all 20 on my digital scale, they ranged from 606 grains to 625, I managed to save 2 separate piles to shoot, 5 that weighed in at 620, and 6 that weighed 625. The reason I bought them was to see how they shoot before I buy a mold. I have no idea how this company casts their boolits but I definately would NOT recommend buying BIG BOOLITS from them!

[ShooterAZ]

The problem was simple...not enough heat. I did not need to add tin, and I did not need to ladle. Just more heat and lots of it and the RCBS Pro-Melt was pouring just fine.

54bore: Take a look at this mold from accurate http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=59-560M-D.png
It is also a tapered muzzle loader mold, easy to load. Not sure what the twist rate is on your rifle, but this one might be worth a look. This was my first Accurate Mold, and I would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone. Top quality and worth the price all day long.

[54bore]

ShooterAZ, That is a good looking bullet and I might end up going with that one? I have 2 molds I am trying to choose from right now from accurate, they both look really close to a TC Maxi Ball, the #59-550M and the #59-625M, I have no experience with accurate bullet molds so good to hear you recommend them, i am thinking I will go with an aluminum single cavity mold in whichever I choose and I will likely ladle pour since I have both the Lyman ladle and the Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot, I have the little 10 pound RCBS lead pot to ladle pour from.

[ShooterAZ]

54bore, that 59-550M looks like it might be a good one. The 59-625M may/may not be a bugger to get started in the bore, not sure. I chose a tapered design because it allows the boolit to be started easier and maintain straight alignment in the bore as it is seated.

[Harleysboss]

here is a barrel twist calculator that I've been using and it puts ShooterAZ mold that he is using right in there as far as desired twist for bullet used. I looked at the molds that 54bore is looking at and plugged in the specs and they too are in there the 59-625m shows a 1-46 twist so thats close to his 1-48. Here is the web site that I used maybe it will help find just the right specs on a mold or help confirm your suspicions. Kwk.us/twist.html.

[ShooterAZ]

Harleysboss, Thanks for the twist calculator link, I now have it bookmarked.

[rbuck351]

I know this is getting the cart ahead of the horse but having the parts for a 69cal rifled muzzle stuffer, I bought a .685 Minie mold and figgured I might as well make a few boolits. I started casting with my Lee drip o matic but wasn't getting good fill out. I bit of tin didn't help much so I got out the butane tourch and heated the mold a bunch. This helped but I was still getting a hole at the top inside of the hollow base. Tourched the base pin pretty good and life is good. 616gr minie balls from a bottom pour with good fillout. Now all I have left to do is build the gun. Heat then more heat was the cure.

[mooman76]

Moulds with a HB pin separate from the mould can be a bugger. It's the pin for the most part that's hard to get and keep up to temp.