Eat from the freezer & shoot from the closet

[FISH4BUGS]

I read a great article about "eating from the freezer". That is exactly what we do. Two 6 foot stand up freezers full of food. Organic foods all the way - chicken, burger, sausage, and bacon from a local organic farm, and all the organic veggies from the garden last year. Those veggies really are a treat in May and June when the garden is not putting out just yet.
Over the weekend, I roasted a chicken, and then made a chicken soup with all the veggies - green beans, brocolli, cauliflower, shallots, etc. We eat chicken for a few days, switch to burger for a few days, do a soup for a few days, then make an organic tomato sauce for pasta with tomatos from the garden. We eat simply but very well.
I went to the range yesterday and it struck me when I went to the closet to take some ammo with me. What do I shoot? 9mm subsonic for the supressed Uzi, 380 for the Mac, 38 for the Model 36, 28 and Colt Officer's Match and the Rossi 92. 357 for the Rossi and the 28, and even some 44 mag just in case.
It struck me that this is just like "eating from the freezer" except it is "shooting from the closet". If you cast and load by the thousands, stock it deep, you will have ammo whenever you want.
I can see the headlines now "....local resident found with thousands of rounds of ammunition". Oh well, I guess they just wouldn't understand the principle of inventory.
Just like food in the freezer, there is no shortage when you put ammo into the closet. I have one organic vegetable farmer that loves to trade 9mm and 223 ammo for seedlings. The majority of our garden vegetables come from his seedlings and it doesn't cost me much, So that freezer full of veggies basically cost me some 223 and cast 9mm loads. He's happy, I'm happy - the way it should be.
So when it all hits the fan, we can ask "....what shortage?"
Shoot from the closet. Eat from the freezer.
Life is good.

[2wheelDuke]

Don't worry, liberal media can also spin your "food stockpile" into something nefarious as well. Maybe by suggesting that you're part of some doomsday cult, planning for society to collapse, or whatever.

[Geezer in NH]

:goodpost:

Got to agree with you I made chicken parmesan with home grown sauce and chicken for dinner yesterday. Spaghetti we made from home ground wheat. Living in the country is great!

[Teddy (punchie)]

Like the way you are taking the words and putting them into a saying.

Only trouble is your just like me as a farmer. I'm sure going to have a hard time holding what is ours, there a a group of us that are friends and neighbors (family to) that will try to stay peaceable but see the way people can and do get. Going to be sad is all I can say, hope somehow it all straightens it self out.

Pray I have at least two more good years to get ready, the oversize garden and OP seeds and start planting OP corn and fill the 1200 bu crib. Cattle 20 + and hay 80 +acres , pasture 30 acres, already here. Don't think we will be ever ready, but if something even bad happens will have a chance. Never know where the next storm, earthquake, flood, or disaster may come.

Friends also have goats, few chickens need more. Fuel is going to be rough. Fresh water is something we need to work on. Lost a farm spring do to pipe line now time to try and hit water at the 5 wet spot we have. There are two other places close but own ship is the key.

All something we need to think long and hard on.

[FISH4BUGS]

Don't worry, liberal media can also spin your "food stockpile" into something nefarious as well. Maybe by suggesting that you're part of some doomsday cult, planning for society to collapse, or whatever.
Well, we had an ice storm in '09 that had us out of power for 10 days. While I suppose one could say that we are becoming borderline preppers, I see it as just being prepared. This winter has been an easy one. Last winter was tough.
You never know. If nothing bad happens then I have lots of ammo to shoot in the upcoming years. If something DOES happen, well, I am prepared.
If the Dems get their way and ban guns (and by extension ammo) my ability to manufacture ammo will come in handy. I have already seen the value in trading with neighbors.
But let's hope all I have a closet full of ammo and it never needs to be used except for practice.

[farmerjim]

I don't do organic, But I do eat from the freezer and shoot from the closet. I have 2 years worth of fertilizer and chemicals in the barn. and 2 years worth of ammo in the closet. You can save the seed from hybrids. They will not produce as well as the first cross, but most of them will still do fine. I do grow several open pollinated varieties, but most do not do as well in our hot humid climate. What I can't grow myself, I buy in bulk then freeze or dry and vacuum pack.

[FISH4BUGS]

:goodpost:

Got to agree with you I made chicken parmesan with home grown sauce and chicken for dinner yesterday. Spaghetti we made from home ground wheat. Living in the country is great!

Gotta agree. I lived downtown in the City (you couldn't get any more downtown than I was) for many years. Moved to the country five years ago. Bought a little farm house and went the whole route - wood stove, generator, backup fuel, freezers, garden, casting and reloading shed, etc.
Nice little town here. I think neighbors helping neighbors is very important. The City does not have that at all. It is hard to do that when you live in a 800 sf condo downtown with virtually NO storage space.

[RayinNH]

But Donald ,now you don't get to hear the motorcycles, drunks and loud music on Islington Street and Market Square in the summer.

[runfiverun]

I just went through the economics of reloading with someone that is on the fence about getting started.

he called me just as I was getting home from the range earlier this week.
and it went something like this.
hello.
what you doin.
just comin on from shooting.
oh yeah? what'd you shoot.
abut 250 rds of 45 acp and 150 rds of 357 mag.
I hear a pause as he does the math, Dude that's like 200.00 worth of ammo,,,, how? we been super slow at work lately.
ME no, it's like 15.00 bucks worth of ammo 16.00 if you count the gas down to the range and back.
him................ hmm, well I got you some ww's if you want them.
you know I do.

[Blackwater]

Duke is right of course, and anyone who steps out and thinks for themselves now, and makes their own decisions independent of all the group think that's pervading our world now, seems to be regarded as having some sort of "mental imbalance." If we're not subject to the teats of someone else, and can get along on our own no matter what, then we're regarded as "rogues," and "mental deficients." HAR! Looking around me, I'd want nothing BUT to be different from those I see. So color me "mentally deficient," a "rogue," or whatever color anyone wants to color me as. I know what I'm doing and trying to do, and why. If they don't, or don't want to accept that, it's THEIR problem, and I won't let it be mine. I'm quite satisfied to be different, and the only thing that could make me feel bad about it is if I were NOT different. Sooner or later, we all have to make decisions that just aren't ever going to be accepted as PC. So be it. Logic and sensibility have been with us a LOT longer than PC. Some of us aren't consumed by PC and the "modern thought."

It looks like George Orwell was right, and in the book "1984, he only missed the year by a few. And he wasn't even a prophet! Just a man with the eyes to see. Ain't it funny how that works?

[BrassMagnet]

I just went through the economics of reloading with someone that is on the fence about getting started.

he called me just as I was getting home from the range earlier this week.
and it went something like this.
hello.
what you doin.
just comin on from shooting.
oh yeah? what'd you shoot.
abut 250 rds of 45 acp and 150 rds of 357 mag.
I hear a pause as he does the math, Dude that's like 200.00 worth of ammo,,,, how? we been super slow at work lately.
ME no, it's like 15.00 bucks worth of ammo 16.00 if you count the gas down to the range and back.
him................ hmm, well I got you some ww's if you want them.
you know I do.


You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

However, it sure sounds like he is ready to sip!


I like to sweeten the pot a little more.
They can learn to load and cast on my equipment under my supervision.
Then they can load for a while on my equipment while they figure out what equipment they need to satisfy their need for speed on the budget they can afford. Then they only have to spend money on one outfit that meets their wants, needs, and budget.
Still, many won't even take a sip.
Great job, RunFiveRun, we need to bring more into reloading and casting. Great job!

[FISH4BUGS]

But Donald ,now you don't get to hear the motorcycles, drunks and loud music on Islington Street and Market Square in the summer.

I have to tell you I don't miss it a bit. I lived on the corner of Fleet and Congress streets. Ground zero for downtown. The motorcycles at 2 a.m. with their straight pipes (loud pipes save lives ya know - BS! - loud pipes just piss people off. ) and worst of all the screaming drunks and the fights at 2 a.m. below my window. Ah....civilization......I'd rather listen to the coyotes singing and the owls hooting out here.

[FISH4BUGS]

just comin on from shooting.
oh yeah? what'd you shoot.
abut 250 rds of 45 acp and 150 rds of 357 mag.
I hear a pause as he does the math, Dude that's like 200.00 worth of ammo,,,, how? we been super slow at work lately.
ME no, it's like 15.00 bucks worth of ammo 16.00 if you count the gas down to the range and back.
I was doing some math while at the range. I watched a guy shoot 40 rounds of 300 Win mag and leave his brass behind. Of course I snapped it up even though I don't own a 300 win mag. Probably $20 in brass there. Trading material.
I can shoot all my pistol caliber guns cheaper than a 22. Cast lead using WW231 (goes a Loooooooooooooong way) makes it cheaper than a 22. That does not count the thousands of dollars in Hensley & Gibbs, Lyman and RCBS moulds, a Star sizer, Dillon 550, reloading and sizing dies, etc.
But I am FINALLY at a place where I feel I can be almost self-sufficient. Still want to stock up more on jacket rifle bullets (308 and 223) but I am all set with powder, brass and primers.
It is a good feeling. Prepper? No, just being prepared.

[runfiverun]

wait till you go the next step and just need to stock up on 30 cal rifle jackets at 8 cents each [or free in the case of 223 from 22 lr brass bullets, and just flat out cheap when making 31 cal bullets from 5.7 brass]
instead of 25-30 cent each bullets.
2 deer and a bunch of varmints went down last year from my own home made jacketed rifle rounds.
the freedom of pretty much just breezing past the bullet section in the G/S is priceless.

[David2011]

SWMBO and I were talking yesterday about the economics of game meat. Some of it I've processed myself and some goes to the packer. We like bacon burger from the venison. So, 2 blackbuck yielded probably 70 pounds of meat for the cost of 2 rounds of handloads. The deer was another handload plus a fee from the processor. We got 9 pounds of meat sliced meat to make jerky with and 35 pounds of bacon burger for a $160.00 processing charge. Still kind of pricey but it's great tasting lean meat even with the bacon and still far less costly than the grocery store and it's not just "good for wild game." It's REALLY good.

David

[rancher1913]

we've got the eat from the freezer thing down pat; beef, pork, chicken, eggs, and milk, all from our ranch. been working overtime to get the shooting from the closet part caught up, and it has not been cheep but hopefully it will pay off someday.

[MaryB]

I am enjoying my freezer full of veg from the garden, the winter squash I finished at Christmas... adding potatoes to the garden this year and a few more green veg varieties that freeze well. Beef comes from a local rancher, chickens from a friend, pork from a small local butcher who gets the animals locally... Fruit is all local too, apples, mulberries, raspberries, gooseberries, strawberries...

[FISH4BUGS]

I am enjoying my freezer full of veg from the garden, the winter squash I finished at Christmas... adding potatoes to the garden this year and a few more green veg varieties that freeze well. Beef comes from a local rancher, chickens from a friend, pork from a small local butcher who gets the animals locally... Fruit is all local too, apples, mulberries, raspberries, gooseberries, strawberries...

I feel bad for those folks that live in the city and can't (or won't) do local foods. The difference in what you buy locally and what you get in the stores is night and day.
I took a chicken over to my 89 year old mother and roasted it and served it with with veggies from the garden.
She was astounded and said "...I haven't had chicken that good since I was child". I pointed out to her that when she was a kid, that is the way chickens were grown. They were in the back yard eating bugs and pecking at the ground, not in some chicken factory.
I have the eating from the freezer thing down pretty well. I am still working on the shooting from the closet thing. I think three or four thousand 380's need to be cast up (H&G S55 10 cavity mould) and loaded, and I could use more 223 and 308.
Never enough.....never enough.

[GhostHawk]

Totally agree with the OP.

My freezer is full, and so is the closet.
When I got back into reloading 3 years ago I had nothing but half a pound of holy black and half a can of Dupont 3031.

Now I am sitting on 17 lbs of Red Dot, 4 of IMR 4895, 10 lbs of other assorted powders.
4k large rifle primers, 4k small pistol, 2k small rifle and 1k of large pistol.

The ammo table is groaning, and I need to invest in more mtm 100 round flip top boxes.
Lead stash is doing fine with a variety of range lead, wheel weights, and tin ingots to choose from.

I do live in the city, and don't have space or the physical energy to do much gardening, but I do have a big stash of heirloom seeds. First few years I can get by trading seeds for a share of what is grown.

[BrassMagnet]

I used to admire a little old man that shot at a rifle range I belonged to. He saved his .22 LR brass fired in his bolt rifle to swage into .243 bullets. He shot pretty good 100 yard groups with his home swaged jacketed bullets.

[bangerjim]

Freezers are good. Until you loose power. For weeks. Or months. A perfect example of the stuff hitting the rotary air oscillator.

Just hope you have a few hundred gallons of gas stored somewhere and a big generator to keep that freezer/s fed & running.

I personally go for lots of canned/bottled and freeze-dried stuff and never would rely on frozen for more than a few days in a true emergency.

And I have 25,000 gallons of swimming pool water at the ready and water purification.....if ever needed.


banger

[FISH4BUGS]

Just hope you have a few hundred gallons of gas stored somewhere and a big generator to keep that freezer/s fed & running.
banger
No....just 100 gallons replenished every two years.

[Iowa Fox]

No....just 100 gallons replenished every two years.

Two years on todays fuel is a stretch. Almost everything has ethanol in it in a lot of states. The ethanol industry will tell you the self life is about 6 mo's. Around here we can still buy gas and diesel without it. Before I retired our field tech's found all kinds of fuel storage issues causing problems, even long before the ethanol days. Some of our larger customers had 60K gallons of diesel fuel storage for their stand by power generation. Sure glad I'm retired.

LP or Natural gas is the way to go for a homeowner.

[Geezer in NH]

Two years on todays fuel is a stretch. Almost everything has ethanol in it in a lot of states. The ethanol industry will tell you the self life is about 6 mo's. Around here we can still buy gas and diesel without it. Before I retired our field tech's found all kinds of fuel storage issues causing problems, even long before the ethanol days. Some of our larger customers had 60K gallons of diesel fuel storage for their stand by power generation. Sure glad I'm retired.

LP or Natural gas is the way to go for a homeowner.
No ethanol at our local airport's pumps. Everything but our vehicles get it stores well for years.

[rancher1913]

we make sure that we don't have ethanol in it and it stores for several years with no additives. with 5 freezers the power thing has always been on my mind but with the huge mega dairy up the road, even in the worst of blizzards, power never is off for more than an hour. have ups system that will run freezers for about 12 hours and a 60kw gen set so no real worries but we also have a huge dedicated canning kitchen and can have all the meat in jars in a few days if it really hits the fan.

[BrassMagnet]

we make sure that we don't have ethanol in it and it stores for several years with no additives. with 5 freezers the power thing has always been on my mind but with the huge mega dairy up the road, even in the worst of blizzards, power never is off for more than an hour. have ups system that will run freezers for about 12 hours and a 60kw gen set so no real worries but we also have a huge dedicated canning kitchen and can have all the meat in jars in a few days if it really hits the fan.

I have heard this statement on time to can a freezer of meat in a day, two days, three days, etc many times. I have questions about this!

I have gone to classes on pressure canning meats. I am under the impression that once the meat is cubed and jarred it takes a couple of hours to bring it to temperature, can it at temperature, and let it naturally cool down to finish the canning process.

The number of jars in even the larger pressure canners is limited. Seven quarts or maybe 14 pints at most? Even with two large pressure cookers and enough stove tops/burners to keep them utilized makes me think it would take far longer than just three days.

I have thought of buying a bunch of pork loins at Sam's and canning them. With custom cutting to reduce the work in getting consistent cube sizing, I still doubt Mrs. Brass and I could can more than fifty pounds in a weekend with two large pressure canners and propane burners to fully utilize both.

Am I missing something?

[MaryB]

Not a problem

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/Solar-panels-complete.jpg

Batteries

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20141129_2034571201_zps5d3f8a7e.jpg

Inverters and charge controllers and misc stuff to make it all work

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20141128_2229403461_zps32720917.jpg


Freezers are good. Until you loose power. For weeks. Or months. A perfect example of the stuff hitting the rotary air oscillator.

Just hope you have a few hundred gallons of gas stored somewhere and a big generator to keep that freezer/s fed & running.

I personally go for lots of canned/bottled and freeze-dried stuff and never would rely on frozen for more than a few days in a true emergency.

And I have 25,000 gallons of swimming pool water at the ready and water purification.....if ever needed.


banger

[davidheart]

I have heard this statement on time to can a freezer of meat in a day, two days, three days, etc many times. I have questions about this!

I have gone to classes on pressure canning meats. I am under the impression that once the meat is cubed and jarred it takes a couple of hours to bring it to temperature, can it at temperature, and let it naturally cool down to finish the canning process.

The number of jars in even the larger pressure canners is limited. Seven quarts or maybe 14 pints at most? Even with two large pressure cookers and enough stove tops/burners to keep them utilized makes me think it would take far longer than just three days.

I have thought of buying a bunch of pork loins at Sam's and canning them. With custom cutting to reduce the work in getting consistent cube sizing, I still doubt Mrs. Brass and I could can more than fifty pounds in a weekend with two large pressure canners and propane burners to fully utilize both.

Am I missing something?

It took a little less than a day for my wife to can up about ~60-80lbs of deer. She used pint jars and stuffed them tight, then stacked them two high in the pressure canner we have. We dehydrated the rest the meat from that animal.

We don't own a large freezer yet nor do we have the funds for a solar setup to ensure off-grid electricity, but my wife started canning up meat in 2014. We actually still have some deer left over I killed that hunting season. We've also canned rabbit, goat, and chicken with absolute success.

One thing I do need to say is that the meat shreds. If you want big hunks of cubes from canned meat you may be disappointed. But if your goal is to have fresh meat, stored for two years feeding your family when funds are tight, or the caca hits the fan, canning meat is the way to go.

[Iowa Fox]

Mary B, I'm impressed!!

[rancher1913]

ron, your more or less right, but you need to see my wife's set up to understand. she has a huge dedicated outbuilding for canning. it has a commercial three compartment sink, 2 gas stoves, 2 large stand alone gas burners and then there are the huge burners that run the commercial grade largest allamerican canners you can get-41 quart I think but don't quote me-these pressure canners are so huge you can not use them on a stove. all together she has about 8 pressure canners and probably 20 water bath canners. she normally does about 1500 jars a year. she has a large lp tank that is just to run that kitchen so I my be off a little on the time to can up the freezers but not by much. oh yah, this does not include her normal inside kitchen that could be put in service to help as well. she is to canning what you are to reloading:drinks:

[Fishman]

What does she do with all that canned goods? Sell at the farmers market? That's work right there.

[FISH4BUGS]

MaryB, we are not worthy............

[TXGunNut]

SWMBO and I were talking yesterday about the economics of game meat. Some of it I've processed myself and some goes to the packer. We like bacon burger from the venison. So, 2 blackbuck yielded probably 70 pounds of meat for the cost of 2 rounds of handloads. The deer was another handload plus a fee from the processor. We got 9 pounds of meat sliced meat to make jerky with and 35 pounds of bacon burger for a $160.00 processing charge. Still kind of pricey but it's great tasting lean meat even with the bacon and still far less costly than the grocery store and it's not just "good for wild game." It's REALLY good.

David


Sounds like you need a grinder, David.

[rancher1913]

we very seldom go to the grocery store, she cans everything from the garden. and yes we do sell some of the excess at the farmers market. she also teaches canning classes out of her outside kitchen. we set it up as a commercial kitchen so down the road we can use it to make stuff to sell.

[smokeywolf]

HMMM, wonder if I can fabricate a meat (and bone) grinder attachment to go on my lathe.:Bright idea:

[Nose Dive]

Hmmm...Yes..... making rounds by yourself is 'cheaper'. Yea?

I do cost analysis for major oil firms all over the world. All kinds of projects and activities....Cost, Schedule, Risk, Forecasting...ugh...chuck...choke....

Now...I have done a cost analysis for 'reloading your own' vs store bought rounds. If we..(i reload all my own rifle, pistol, shotgun rounds) add all the 'stuff' we need...round per round... primers, casings, powder, boolit, (you make'em, or you buy'em)...it is indeed cheaper. If...and only if...YOU DO NOT ADD YOUR LABOR... Now I mean 'YOUR TIME" to do the work. Now, let's 'go get some lead'... smelt some lead....cast some ingots... check them...resmelt to needed alloy hardness...recast ingots.... take good ingots and cast some boolits..rifle or pistol... Lube and swage them.... now resize the casings...reprime them...charge the powder....seat and crimp your boolit...for each round... put them in boxes... and now...time is off the clock!...your range time is not counted as it is time you would spend with store bought or home brew rounds....

So, now, Joe Bob,,,what are YOU WORTH? Do you make minimum wage? $3.50 an hour? $15 or $45 an hour? LABOR is the big saver on reloading and of course,,quality,, accuracy for load...PRIDE ....and satisfaction.... 'real costs' and accuracy items are some not 'hand in hand' comparisons.. If you tune your load..YOUR TIME...is, to me, an intangible cost that is VERY EXPENSIVE to a nonreloader and we cannot here, in my opinion, make a fair cost analysis. But, in argument,,,, "is Franky's dead deer with store bought rounds 'more dead' than yours with your hand made, hand tuned reloads?"

I'll try to dig up the spreadsheet I did some time back to show,,,truly, with YOUR TIME...it is a wash. Don't forget 'equipment costs over say, 1,000 rounds or so. And...now,, all settle back down!!... Your load is tuned to your gun...I know!...but..don't forget Franky's dead deer...(is your dead deer 'more dead' than his?).. Let's not talk about 'his shot at 75 yards and yours at...mmmm say... 150)

Now let's look at 'processing'.

I process all my field kills. Skin, quarter, transport, (store on ice), debone, grind, season, mix, stuff, smoke, package and freeze. Make my own 'seasoning' and cut my own wood to smoke, then hot smoke 36 hours. I have not done a cost analysis on this, but, think it might be a bit cheaper as, "I BELIEVE" i get more meat when all is said and done. "my sauasage is 50/50" mix pork and field kill meat. I buy my hog at $125...sorry..sorry...now $152 for a 400 lb hog,,killed, hung, scalded, shaved, gutted, washed and hung, with head on. Corn hog, not a slop hog. So,,,now,,, who gets to skin and butcher this little honey and package that meat? Who has to freeze, grind and mix all the meat? Season it, stuff it, smoke it? See? YOUR TIME IS PRECIOUS.

So..where are we here? We still have to buy things to make boolits and sausage and steaks. We still have to spend TIME doing the work, yes?

Or, heck...go to Academy Sports, buy some rounds, shoot an animal, gut it, take it to a butcher and have him process it for you.

See the difference? See what YOU HAVE TO DO?

If you are a 'free man'... and don't have to miss 'work' do get done what needs to be done...it is cheape than 'paying for it'.

And...geee.. to me.. the boolits are better, the hunt is better, the kill is better, the butchered meat is better, the sausage is better, the steaks are better, the time I spend doing what I love to do is better.

What's better than this?

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

[Nose Dive]

MaryB..... GOOD GRIEF!!! I grovel at the foot of the MASTER!!

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

[Iowa Fox]

This thread reminds me of being a kid on the farm growing up canning, butchering, gardens, chickens, that's just the way it was. The big wood & coal furnace in the basement didn't use electricity. The older farmers all had windmills with home plants that used batteries in the basement. The windmills would pump water for the livestock, water to the supply tank in the house, and generate electricity. They had one cylinder engines for the cloudy windless days. The well water tasted totally different in those days.

And, lots of reloading for the game we shot. Pheasants by the millions, now almost extinct.

[2wheelDuke]

Freezers are good. Until you loose power. For weeks. Or months. A perfect example of the stuff hitting the rotary air oscillator.

Just hope you have a few hundred gallons of gas stored somewhere and a big generator to keep that freezer/s fed & running.

I personally go for lots of canned/bottled and freeze-dried stuff and never would rely on frozen for more than a few days in a true emergency.

And I have 25,000 gallons of swimming pool water at the ready and water purification.....if ever needed.


banger

I was a kid when Hurricane Andrew hit us. We went weeks without power. We were far from prepared. We didn't own a generator back then. We had a freezer packed full of fish. We ate as much as we could and gave away a bunch, but still lost a heartbreaking amount.

When Katrina hit us, it was a scramble to really prepare. Wilma whacked us again that same year. I had things pretty comfortably under control off the grid then. Running a generator for a few hours at a time a couple times a day keeps things pretty well in a good freezer.

[dpunch]

Tonight I just fried 4 pounds of perch with my fresh cut potatoes. I fish, hunt and garden. I do all this in the city until I can retire.