Cz 527 17 hornet and cast

[Dpmsman]

I was on the NOE site and saw a 17 cal 32grn mould. Not sure why but this really interests me. Does anyone out there cast for the 17 hornet? If so what kind of velocity and accuracy can a guy expect? Thanks

[richhodg66]

I have fairly small hands and fingers and loading .22 cnterfires gives me fits, can't imagine what .17s are like. Do they even make gas checks, sizing dies, etc for .17s?

[Screwbolts]

Just looked at that boolit, it is, PB, and .5"+ long. I think it is the smalles rendition of a PB 311299 I have ever seen.

I do not cast for 17, but cast much for regular hornets and up. Keep you mold hot and I believe it should do well for a good plinking boolit.

Ken

[castalott]

It would not be for me but maybe you have the patience and skill to get it to shoot. Good Luck and keep us informed if you buy it....

[Dpmsman]

I have fairly small hands and fingers and loading .22 cnterfires gives me fits, can't imagine what .17s are like. Do they even make gas checks, sizing dies, etc for .17s?
I have not seen any gas checks available but it is a PB mould. A guy could powder coat. As far as sizing dies I think Lee will make custom push through die for a small fee. I just wonder about the 1/9 twist rate in the CZ. It should stabilize that boolit.

[richhodg66]

I say go for it if you have the rifle. Strange as it sounds, as itty-bitty as a Hornet is, I've found it to be one of the most rewarding cartridges for reduced loadings. Makes a heck of a fox squirrel round loaded with two grains of fast pistol powder, quiet and pleasant to shoot. A .17 might be too.

Could a guy load just a primer and an air gun pellet?

[Dpmsman]

Could a guy load just a primer and an air gun pellet?[/QUOTE]

Not sure, I'll try it and let you know.

[richhodg66]

Might work better with a small pistol primer rather than a small rifle primer.

[castalott]

I name most of my 'keeper' guns. I would have to name a 17 Hornet CZ ...ZeeDaisy.

The pellet thing sounds very interesting. Guys were doing that back in the 1980's with .22's over the long winter months and some were not bad. Max range was 30 feet though...

[richhodg66]

This has me intrigued now. I would worry that a primer might be too much and blow out the front of a pellet since they are hollow based up to the nose almost.

[castalott]

This has me intrigued now. I would worry that a primer might be too much and blow out the front of a pellet since they are hollow based up to the nose almost.

HHHmmm...I wonder about filling the pellet with hot glue...at least for the 1st few rounds. It would strengthen the pellet a lot I would think.

[castalott]

IF I remember correctly, once you had the case neck tension just right that the pellet could be seated by finger pressure undamaged- you then found just the right 'flare' that the pellet would enter undamaged but the case would still chamber. The only operations were deprime/prime and pellet seat.

Dale

I wish I had paid more attention....

Over the winter months and with the right bunch of 'goofy' guys this could be a lot of fun....

[castalott]

One guy would seat the pellet in the rifling & then load the primered case. That tool wouldn't be too hard to make.

[rhouser]

I know this is an old thread, but, I just ordered in both of the current NOE .172 dies (26gr GC and 32gr PB), the gas checks, and a push through set. I will be using a CZ 527 Varmint 17 H Hornet with 1-9tw 24in barrel. I am hoping for a non-expanding .17 with good penetration and acceptable accuracy.

I currently cast .224 for hornet and 223 but this is going to be even smaller.

Is anybody currently casting and shooting for 17 Hornet? Has anybody actually casted with a NOE .172 die?

I will post some outcome regardless of responses just for "history" if nothing else.

v/r rch

[Texas by God]

Wow. That is some tiny casting. Years ago I used up a box of .22 air rifle pellets and a box of .22 blank yellow power loads together in a Marlin single shot .22. Decent accuracy to 20 yards but louder than a normal Long Rifle.

[arlon]

I name most of my 'keeper' guns. I would have to name a 17 Hornet CZ ...ZeeDaisy.

The pellet thing sounds very interesting. Guys were doing that back in the 1980's with .22's over the long winter months and some were not bad. Max range was 30 feet though...

I'd just buy a nice pellet gun. LOL.. (-:}

[rhouser]

SITREP: I have begun testing with the 32gr NOE .172 PB bullet in my CZ 527 17H Hornet.

I have to admit that I am cheating here. I was looking for aftermarket .17 custom bullet resources and found Reed's Ammunition & Research, LLC. I do not work for them and am not associated with them, so here is the link: http://shop.reedsammo.com/17-Cal-Bullets_c278.htm. They are selling .172 32gr PB and 26gr GC boolits by the 100.

I called them and confirmed that Reed's is selling bullets cast with NOE's .172 molds. These are the same molds I just got in. I admit to ordering 100 of each bullet. I am claiming it is to serve as a benchmark for when I begin with my molds.

Back to test plan. I am going begin with Trail Boss and my magneto speed chronograph. I used the .173" .17 cal push-through die from NOE to "clean up" the edges on my purchased bullets (they came fully lubed). I have settled on a COAL of 1.631 using the Hornady comparator .17 cal insert (1.715 raw caliper measurement).

This morning I will take my first 32gr test loads to the range and chronograph them as well as grouping assessment. The JBM calculator says they should be stable down to 600 fps, so, I am hoping for a "no keyhole" test.

With the long round nose 32gr boolits, they remind me of the MIL SURP 6.5x55 with the 156gr boolits on top. Now if they will just shoot.

thanks to all that make this forum great.

v/r rch

[rhouser]

I did the first shoots with the .17hh and the NOE bullets from Reed's. I have started a thread under the CB LOADS forum to do the reporting.

Thanks rch

[Minerat]

castalot - 17 hornet may be a CZ ZeeDaisey:smile: but this is the first 5 shot group after the scope was set on my 527 measured 0.44", no trigger job, out of the box. # 1 was the eleventh round down the bore. First 3 shots went into the upper hole and I got too excited for the last two and shot them low. 9.7 gr ltl gun, 20 gr Dogtown HP from a rest @100 yds.

207919

OP check this thread by rhouser
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?347583-Cast-Boolits-and-my-CZ-527-V-in-17-Hornet

FYI NOE has push thru dies and gas checks too.

and 223 are easy to reload compared to these mouse scat sized bullets. I use a Universal Case Expanding Die to expand the case necks to get them to start without crushing the case necks.

[castalott]

Well done! But I bet it will do even better. ( You said yourself you got excited...) I have some 22 Dogtown bullets to try ... I hope they shoot like that...

But CZ makes good stuff.. I like their rifles...

[MostlyLeverGuns]

In the late 60's I tried 22 pellets with a primer in a Savage 219 22 Hornet. I did have some problems with pellets blowing out at the nose. As an unguided 16 year old, I went back to the 225415 which shot 1.25" regularly. A different pellet or small pistol primer might work, but check the bore every shot until you are sure of your pellet/primer combo.

[rhouser]

Castalot, What's not to like with the 17 HH. I like the Dogtown 20 as well.

Minerat, I went the whole enchilada with NOE.

I bought both the .172 molds. I got the push through set up with .172 and .173 sizing collets. I also got both size expander plugs that I use inserted into my lee universal sizer.

For the 32gr NOE PB, I ended up using the .173 in both the sizing ring and the expander plug for the 32gr NOE PB .172. Per my posting in CBLOAD thread, I am getting dime size 5 shot groups at 50 yards running 1557 FPS AVG VEL. I have not yet moved to the 100 yard range, but, these could hold up. (Load as posted for the 1557 FPS is 2.8gr TB and a 6 1/2 REM SRP.

The key for me for .172 cast HH boolits so far seems to be the NOE tools. With the NOE matched molds, sizing dies, and expander plugs, I am getting no significant leading, no crushed casings, and very satisfactory accuracy. The 32gr PB looks like it will be a winner for me in my 527 CZ V.

v/r rch


v/r rch

[Minerat]

Been a while since any activity on this thread.

A friend dropped off a lb of Hodgen CFEBLK and said he heard it works in the 17hh. Anyone tried it? Data I can find says 11.8 gr under a 20 gr @ 3399 to 12.8 @3652.

I have some 173-26 pc gc that I want to try it with and since it is suggested for subsonic or suppressed loads it might work being loaded down to CB velocities.

[rhouser]

Minerat: it's been a while. I just saw the above. In my 527 CZ-V 17 Hornet, the CFE-BLK is what I am using for all my Jword bullets. I am very pleased with it so far. It appears a little less jumpy than LIL. In my 22 hornet, I only use LIL GUN. 13 gr and any bullet (Jword).

Let me know what you think of the CFE-BLK.

rch

[Minerat]

Rch, what starting load of cfeblk did you use, if you don't mind. Last I tried was red dot and it sprayed like a shotgun and I have not had time to try anything else since then. I finally got enough pored to begin testing but am not sure how low to start with this powder.

[rhouser]

I ended up with 12.8gr CFE-BLK for all my 20gr J words (Hornady, Midway Dogtown, Midsouth nightmares, etc) and 11.4gr CFE-BLK for all my 25 gr Jwords. For me the key was to load them off the lands a bit rather than at Jam. I ended up matching the LOA that was on the factory Hornady 20 gr.

The AVG VEL was 3650's - to 3680's with the GM primers for the 20 gr Jwords and 3150 to 3230 for the 25 gr Jwords.

Hope this helps.

v/r rch

[Minerat]

How was the accuracy? I'm getting sub half moa with my j words and 9.2 gr ltl gun so never figured to use anything else. But maybe I better give it a go. I was looking to use the CFE-BLK with PCd cast due to its sub sonic loads use in the 223. Maybe start with 5.5 gr and chrono with the 173-26 gr?

[rhouser]

Minerat, I am getting nice round .5 and sub .5 - 5 shot groups at 100. This is edge to edge not center to center. I also find I am getting almost ZERO copper fouling using the CFE-BLK. I check by running a patch soaked with sweets down the barrel and then check for "the blue". Sometimes I am even getting No Blue (none).

I use LIL GUN exclusively in my 22 Hornet. 13gr of LIL GUN and any .35 gr Jword. I also use the Remington 6 1/2 primer in my 22 hornets. I haven't tried them in the 17 hornet yet.

thanks chad

[Minerat]

Chad,

The 9.7 gr Ltl Gun with CCI 400 SR, and Dog Town 20gr HPs @ 3628 fps average gave me a 5 shot group at 100 yds of 0.440" on centers. So decided this was my go to load. But the Cfe Blk and your input has me pondering what it could do.

I got pretty good results with 11.2 gr IMR4198 , 3633 fps - 100 yd group @ 0.490".

I use the free version of On Target to measure groups and an older PACT chrono for velocities.

This gun just flat shoot.

Steve

[rhouser]

Minerat, there can be more than one great answer for a caliber. My CZ 527 V in 17 hornet is a great shooter. I might try your LIL Gun load just because I have about 10 pounds of LIL GUN (I use it for my 410 as well as my hornet). I have a CZ 527 American in .22 hornet. It is the most accurate "out of the box" rifle I have ever owned. It is NOT the best with factory ammo. For me the key to my hornet is LIL GUN.

Are you doing any more with your PC 32gr Noe boolits? I have been slacking off. My wife requires that I cast outdoors and it has been a hot and rainy couple of months. I will drag out my casting pots soon. I want to try the PC (harbor freight red) on the two .17 noe boolits that I will cast.

I also need to cast a bunch of my .460 NOE collar button bullets for my 45-70's (yep, that's a plural).

thanks for staying on line with this.

v/r chad

[Minerat]

My CZ527 Varmet 17hh did very well out of box even with factory but the LtlGun really made it shine. I have a .22-250 Bulll barreled Ruger 77 that has been 2 lb trigger, cryoed, mollied, bedded and the CZ out shoots it right out of the box.

I played with the NOE's but the weather got bad, my chrono's skyscreen leg had a run in with a 454 Casull boolit and I had to order a new one so I put them on the the back burner and just have not got back to them. I played with some 1 to 2.5 gr trail boss with pc'd 26 and 32 grs. sized to 0.172 but the targets looks like I was shooting a shotgun instead of a rifle. No leading though so that was good. Then the skyscreen took the hit while I was waiting for the barrel to cool and never got to the Blue Dot loads I was going to play with. Over the winter and this spring I finally got a bunch of the 26gr GC and the 32 PB power coated and resized but wanted to try the Blue Dot ladder I had loaded first (ran out of brass) since I had loaded all but 50 cases with J word for ground rats.

I found another 100 cases and got the CfeBlk. That got me to thinking about using it with cast. I'll probably start messing with it after Elk season in late October. Then I can chrono the Blue Dot loads and try some CfeBlk, may push some of the 26 gr PC GCs into the 2600 fps range for ***** and grins. When I get some results I'll post it. Happy to stay on line with it, us 17HH shooter got to stick together.:smile:

I have a problem with 45-70. I got a Lyman 62-560 mould from a friend, shell holder from Brassmagnet in a PIF with 2 others that I needed, some how I ended up with about 50 cases, and then a set of RCBD dies that were too cheap to pass up. Now I need the funds to get the rifle and the budget and time won't let me do the research to see what gun I want. I really want a Sharpes Quigley but the wife would frown on spending that much money LOL. I tried to convince her I had everything I needed but the gun,but it did not work. She said something about selling all that stuff and get my money back instead, so I hid in on the bottom shelf.