How Long Does It Take To Draw & Deploy Your EDC Should You Have To?

[DougGuy]

I doubt I would ever be as fast as Baret Fawbush, but I think everyone that carries should develop a routine or a regimen of drawing their carry gun and practice with it. Unloaded chamber of course!



http://www.youtu.be/watch?v=LDXjk6itaIw

[OS OK]

Brought to mind another 'fast draw'…funny…danged funny…too bad it's real!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnfQmgL0IYs

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

from the comptac holster I run in action pistol I am 0.9 seconds from beep to round on target obviously the target depends but for this I will say a USPSA cardboard silhouette at 7 yards

if I can start with the heel of my hand on the gun I can cut that almost in half

from concealment , I like to cheat and put my hand on my pistol in my pocket then I can do 0.9 seconds from concealment also. If I don't get to cheat about double that

for the IWB concealment about the same as if I don't get to cheat with my hand in my pocket

you want it to be muscle memory but I am not sure a few 1/10ths is going to be the deciding factor

I think a lot f people think they are faster than they are , and need to go on the clock with a shot timer , you would have to be insanely fast to beat anyone who already has gun in hand low ready to on target is around 0.5 seconds

all it takes is one snag and your way over time on the draw


I should add I started around 2.5 seconds to first round , can't even count the number of repetitions it took to get under 1.0 a part time timer is the training tool to use , also if I go more than a few weeks I have to do a bunch of reps to get back to 0.9

you can actually go faster from surrender position than from hands relaxed at your sides , but we shoot hands relaxed at your side most of the time so that is what I base my times off

play with hand position and time it makes a difference

[Dan Cash]

1.5 seconds to dead target from concealment. Don't know if I could kill a man that quick but if so motivated, I would surely try. The older I get, though, the more I try for situation awareness and anticipate so I can cheat.

[725]

Advice from long ago: Learn to be slow in a hurry,

[Blackwater]

Since I pocket carry, usually, I'm not sure, but I've always figured acting dumb (not difficult for me) and scared might at least give an aggressor a feeling of being at ease and a little too self assured, and I'd basically palm it until I got it nearly into firing position, then I'd move and fire at the same time. Not every situation would make that doable, though, so mostly, I'd have to do some quick thinking and planning, and then just cross my fingers as I executed the plan. Having it in my pocket lets me put my hand there without telegraphing anything, really, so it'd be pretty fast, and only visible for what I was doing toward the last somewhere. Two to the center of mass and at least one to the head. If many are involved, one to the head for each, I think. That's what I'd try for anyway, and keep moving. It'd be a VERY lucky thing to escape unscathed, probably.

[Blammer]

Edc??

[OS OK]

Since I pocket carry, usually, I'm not sure, but I've always figured acting dumb (not difficult for me) and scared might at least give an aggressor a feeling of being at ease and a little too self assured, and I'd basically palm it until I got it nearly into firing position, then I'd move and fire at the same time. Not every situation would make that doable, though, so mostly, I'd have to do some quick thinking and planning, and then just cross my fingers as I executed the plan. Having it in my pocket lets me put my hand there without telegraphing anything, really, so it'd be pretty fast, and only visible for what I was doing toward the last somewhere. Two to the center of mass and at least one to the head. If many are involved, one to the head for each, I think. That's what I'd try for anyway, and keep moving. It'd be a VERY lucky thing to escape unscathed, probably.

Yep…thought this one through for many different scenarios especially regarding the unarmed situation for me…act dumb/scared/timid, NO EYE CONTACT…let their overconfidence rise…take em down, permanently…no lawsuit from injured Felon!

[Artful]

Edc??

Every Day Carry

If you carry concealed firearm every day.

[therealhitman]

No hesitation once the decision is made. All reflex, and well practiced in dry and live fire. Double tap in just about a second from appendix carry and around 1.7 from the pocket in cargo shorts during summer. I'll deal with conscience once I've assured that I'll be alive to mull it over while waiting for my lawyer.

[Hogdaddy]

I'm not that quick,, though I can stay under 2 seconnds with hits CM ; )
H/D

[nagantguy]

.8 was my fastest ever from concealment to draw one hand point shot just high of center, a second to 1.1 is repeatable through long strings of fire...

[Menner]

FBI studies say that 95+% of firearm actions happen within 10 ft and last 1.8 sec.
High stress you will go to what you know, practice does not make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect.
On the qualifying line police agencies stopped letting officers dump brass in their hand and make them drop it on the ground when they were using wheel guns and make them drop mags on the ground with auto's
years ago they found dead officers after a fire fight with empty brass in their pockets, so practice how you carry and practice how you want to react in a situation Muscle memory is the top thing you need to achieve.
I know it is hard to drop those 30 dollar mags on the ground but guarantee you if you take the time during practice to put them in your pocket that is what you will do under stress.
Tony


P.S. Good Advice right there
Advice from long ago: Learn to be slow in a hurry

[Blackwater]

Bill Jordon, the old Border Patrol Trooper, used to draw and fire from concealed with a coat over his holster, in 0.2 seconds from signal to bullet impact. I've never even tried to get THAT fast, even back when I was trying to get faster. That video above of the guy shooting himself is a powerful de-motivator if we take it seriously, and 99.9% of us SHOULD take it seriously. Frivolous or unwise use of guns gets people hurt, but there's always a safe way to get "better," though, adn constant and repeated practice in slower motion at first is the best thing I've found. I'd do all my fast draw practice with a VERIFIED unloaded gun. That way, I got to practice my muscle memory slowly and safely, and got to practice my fast draw with an unloaded gun. I figured if I ever HAD to do a really quick draw, it'd probably be pretty fast. The big thing in Jordan's book, "No Second Place Winner," is his advice about how to handle a confrontation. One thing I specifically remember is when you think you've been made, is to "Smile," and do it really big! Then, when you act all dumbfounded and intimidated, they kind'a relax, and enjoy the show of taking someone down so graphically, while you are planning YOUR move.

He also pointed out that most people have about a 3/4 second reaction time. That's .75 sec., and his draw and fire speed from concealment was .2 sec. So, you see how it IS possible to "draw against the drop" and STILL get off the first shot. It's awfully difficult for most to believe it can be done, but he and a few others did it in actual courtrooms using blanks, of course. Even after seeing it, it was STILL hard for some to believe it was possible. But it IS, but ONLY for the really, really fast, like Jordan and a few more. Me? I'm way too slow for anything like that, so I have to rely on their being dumb or easily distracted enough to get some kind of edge. I wish me luck, especially now that I'm not as fast or well practiced as I used to be. Very humbling!

[Alstep]

"Learn to be slow in a hurry", good advise.
I had a similar saying, "take your time fast" when shooting the high power rapid fire stage.

[David2011]

Wow, lots of very fast draws here. You guys are faster than I am drawing off of my CR Speed "holster" that I use in USPSA Limited competition. From buzzer to first shot I run 1.1 to 1.25 seconds when I'm wound up and on edge waiting for a buzzer to go off, expecting to draw and shoot.

I haven't timed my concealed handgun draw but would expect that the time is 1.5 to 2 seconds from my strong hand pocket to first shot.

An IWB carry of a 1911 is easier and faster to get out but nothing is as easy for me to conceal as a 5 shot revolver.

David

[Plate plinker]

Depends on the rig and the amount of clothing covering up. 1-2 seconds.

[OS OK]

No matter how fast you are, you have to remember that your "intentions" are often 'telegraphed'on your face, an experienced operator will read you like a billboard.
I would imagine that at least some of the 'miscreants' have some experience and possibly some savvy as unlikely as it sounds.
Another thing, You can feel the 'aggression', the 'leashed-up' 'explosion' that is within your adversary, that invisible force is 'tangible' sometimes you'd swear that it is all around you. If he is a cool head…he can feel you in the same way.
If this confrontation is 'one on one' and he walks up with a gun in your face and intends to shoot within the next couple of seconds…well…heres hoping that you really are as fast as you are and you really can respond from a cold/caught off-guard moment when your mind was somewhere else and relaxed. It is also likely that you are going to have an arm full of groceries or any one of a hundred things you might be doing that will have you out of position and caught by surprise…so much for that practice you have done standing there waiting for the shot timer to go off and filled with controlled adrenaline.
These SOB's are 'opportunists' and if they are on the prowl they are most likely pretty good at their part.
On the other hand , if you are part of a group being held at gunpoint you can be there and not be seen by the very actions you take and even being at gunpoint you gain the upper hand because your 'intentions' are invisible and hidden in the 'fear' that is being telegraphed all around you.
One last thing I'd like to mention is that by having been involved in dangerous sports ie. 'bull riding, saddle bronc and rodeo clown' or motorcycle wrecks hang gliding etc., I have had many instances in life where 'time slows down' so much that it is apparent/surreal and surprising to you when you first experience it happen, then in repeat situations you can actually use that slow motion feeling to your advantage…if you can keep your fear pushed down, be willing to accept the outcome without fretting at the moment...then you are able to think and respond within that 'slowed down time span' of an emergency situation. I can't explain it any better than that but it is real and if you are aware of this happening you are able to take full advantage of it.
The one and only time that I stared down a gun barrel in a real life do or die situation, I was 17. I knew nothing about response to a situation like that. It was in a fistfight that was just about to happen…in the next second I was literally staring down a .45 SAA about 6 inches from the bridge of my nose…to this day all I remember is the street light behind me gleaming in that shinny barrel…It looked like I was peering into a 55 gallon drum. I remember my ears getting so hot that I thought that they were on fire…I also remember his words…"You aren't going to do anything punk, you are going to get back into your car and scram". I complied with enthusiasm, I don't think I even spoke a word to him…I was so caught off guard that time went into slow motion, I never thought of a scenario like this back then and at that age…All I remember is that street light gleaming down his barrel!

[buckwheatpaul]

The speed of drawn comes only with practice and building up muscle memory. That is the reason to carry the same type of weapon, in the same way, each time and to consistently practice, practice, practice. Carried a pistol onduty for 35 years and they started us slowly....now that I am retired I try not to speed draw...I try to take stock of my entire environment and bring my weapon to bear on my terms considering the idiot that is a plant that is armed, behind you, and looks like a bystander but is really an active participant.....I try to go to a tactical shoot twice a month to keep my skills sharp....but as we age....well you know....good luck and practice and access!

[OS OK]

The speed of drawn comes only with practice and building up muscle memory. That is the reason to carry the same type of weapon, in the same way, each time and to consistently practice, practice, practice. Carried a pistol onduty for 35 years and they started us slowly....now that I am retired I try not to speed draw...I try to take stock of my entire environment and bring my weapon to bear on my terms considering the idiot that is a plant that is armed, behind you, and looks like a bystander but is really an active participant.....I try to go to a tactical shoot twice a month to keep my skills sharp....but as we age....well you know....good luck and practice and access!

I see you are from our beloved State of Texas and by your picture looks like the Gulf Coast…my Dad spent all but a handful of years working out of Harris County S.O. as a Criminal Investigator. He trained many men and was known State wide. When the Amoco Virginia blew up in the Houston Ship Channel he saved a Merchant Marine from drowning in the firey waters and subsequently earned the Fireman's Award for Bravery and the Carnegie Award for same. When I was a kid He was on the 6:00 news almost weekly being interviewed about the latest homicide…they were plentiful too.
I ran away from home with a couple kids at about 15 and was arrested in I think was 'DeRidder La.' and danged if that Sheriff didn't know Dad! The three of us listening in to his conversation with Dad on the phone scared our pants off…when He turned us loose with our promise to go straight home…we didn't hesitate.
Hugh C. Irby…could be your careers have overlapped.

[bedbugbilly]

Good video Doug. I've never timed myself but I know it's nowhere that fast! :-) That video just points out the importance though of practice, practice and more practice. I think it also points out the importance of "how" you carry and the holster that you select that will work the best "for you personally".

As pointed out, SD situations usually happen in a matter of seconds. While everyone should carry in the manner that they feel most comfortable with . . . this video illustrates the importance of having "one in the tube". I sometimes just shake my head when I read posts (and this is strictly my opinion) from folks who ask about and want to carry (a semi-auto) without one in the tube thinking they can "rack one in" quickly and be ready. I'd like to see the gentleman in the photo time himself having to do that just out of curiosity of seeing how long it adds to his time. . . . then for those of us who aren't as "adept", multiplying that extra time. I think it would be a good incentive for those who question about carrying one in the tube so that you are ready in and instant. Just my humble thoughts though . . .

[gray wolf]

Indoor DRY FIRE--empty gun par timer.

http://dryfirepractice.com/the-timer#

[OS OK]

"DId you fellas know that there is a shot timer for the iPhone?"

[Schrag4]

I don't really time myself. I do shoot IDPA about once a month, and recently we had a stage where you start from a surrender position, draw and fire 2 from retention at about arms length, then while retreating shoot 2 to the body and 1 to the head on a target that is a couple yards further downrange. If memory serves, my raw and final time were 3.20 seconds (zero down), even with an extra shot thrown in for good measure (both connected with the head so it was unnecessary). Not blinding speed, but I'm happy with it, especially considering I didn't drop any shots.

I do agree that whether you're fast or not, you need to at least practice so that it's second nature, so you're not tripping up. Quickly jerking at your gun and getting hung up would be far worse than smoothly drawing and shooting. If nothing else, when the time comes to draw, you should have practiced enough so you don't have to think about it.

[Outpost75]

Edc??

Every Day Carry

As for quick draw and shoot, it is foolhardy to draw against somebody who already has weapon in hand.

Good situational awareness, continuous threat assessment, and taking advantage of TIME, DISTANCE, SHIELDING while you already have your hand on your weapon, while at the same time trying to de-escalate and withdraw is a better survival tactic.

If faced with an immediate threat, get off the "dead spot," create distance, seek cover and engage while moving to cover, creating a window for escape! He who shoots and runs away lives to fight another day.

In the words of my teacher and mentor, the late Harry J. Archer:

"If you stand and fight you'll never live to shoot'em all..."

[Geezer in NH]

Every Day Carry

As for quick draw and shoot, it is foolhardy to draw against somebody who already has weapon in hand.

Good situational awareness, continuous threat assessment, and taking advantage of TIME, DISTANCE, SHIELDING while you already have your hand on your weapon, while at the same time trying to de-escalate and withdraw is a better survival tactic.

If faced with an immediate threat, get off the "dead spot," create distance, seek cover and engage while moving to cover, creating a window for escape! He who shoots and runs away lives to fight another day.

In the words of my teacher and mentor, the late Harry J. Archer:

"If you stand and fight you'll never live to shoot'em all..."Winning post!!!!!

The internet is like TV unbelievable.

Waiting to draw IMHO = dead. All the games with the timers are that GAMES.

Sorry but I carried for a living as an investigator and fast draw is still a fantasy.

I will be flamed for it but I did retire from a real job and no where was Quick draw even considered other than if you need to you failed the incident in the first place.

[OS OK]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Outpost75 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=3546026#post3546026)
Every Day Carry

As for quick draw and shoot, it is foolhardy to draw against somebody who already has weapon in hand.

Good situational awareness, continuous threat assessment, and taking advantage of TIME, DISTANCE, SHIELDING while you already have your hand on your weapon, while at the same time trying to de-escalate and withdraw is a better survival tactic.

If faced with an immediate threat, get off the "dead spot," create distance, seek cover and engage while moving to cover, creating a window for escape! He who shoots and runs away lives to fight another day.

In the words of my teacher and mentor, the late Harry J. Archer:

"If you stand and fight you'll never live to shoot'em all…"




Winning post!!!!!

The internet is like TV unbelievable.

Waiting to draw IMHO = dead. All the games with the timers are that GAMES.

Sorry but I carried for a living as an investigator and fast draw is still a fantasy.

I will be flamed for it but I did retire from a real job and no where was Quick draw even considered other than if you need to you failed the incident in the first place.


"Straight out of the horses mouth…no flames here!"

[wv109323]

Elvis Presley shot a TV practicing his quick draw.

[Artful]

You guys are going to make me go out and just do lefty drills.

[hutch18414]

I have just been hitting about 4-5 seconds from concealed draw to hitting 7 water bottles with water and red food coloring at 25 yds. Not world class speed but it has been a lot of fun getting even this fast and with accuracy. Can't even begin to count the thousands of dry fire shots and empty cocked and locked draws. Jerry Miculek has no worries about me breaking his record. And I agree with the time slowing down thingy, have been there and done that in S.E. Asia. Felt like I was moving through mud but afterwards was told I was moving really fast. Would prefer never to do it again.

[Outer Rondacker]

You guys might get a kick out of this.

Here in NYS we have a county wide permit system. You need to apply for a ccw permit in the county you live in. Saratoga county makes you pass a class and one of the tests to be able to carry a cw is thus. You must draw your edc from where ever it is you have it. Put a mag down range and reload another mag empty it in under 20 seconds while keeping a 70% hit rate.

FINAL QUALIFICATION COURSE OF FIRE REQUIREMENTSCourse of Fire:Warm up: 10-20 rounds / untimed (student discretion)Qualification:Untimed:5 yards (20 rounds) – 70% / 14 rounds strike success on AP-1dimension target10 yards (20 rounds) – 70% / 14 rounds strike success on AP-1dimension targetTimed:(Students w/2 mags)5 yards (10 rounds total w/reload - 5 rounds fired / reload / 5 roundsfired (20 second time limit)– 70% / 7 rounds strike success on AP-1 dimension target

Here is the link to the entire test. Even if one passes the test and already has a handgun permit you still might not get a ccw license. http://www.saratogacountysheriff.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Saratoga-County-Advanced-Course-information-sheet-Final-LRN-081115.pdf

[Geezer in NH]

NY don't want you to have one anyway so's they make it unreal so you cant pass.

Bet their officers will have a hard time passing it.

[Outer Rondacker]

Are you ready for this. Officers do not need to take the test. They do not even need a permit for a handgun. They put it on their badge. I know lots of LEO that do not even own a gun other then the one they have for work.

So if grandma wants to start to carry she better be fast. One mag fumble and you will fail.

I run some drills on this test once in a while and when I do I take my time. 10 seconds with area assesment. All bullets in a pie plate size target.

[jcwit]

One more reason to not live there!

[jcwit]

Did not Wyatt Earp say accuracy counts, speed doesn't.

Under the stress of a actual firefight, I seriously doubt most anyone is going to be calm as when doing practice.

But it all sounds good on the internet.

[Outer Rondacker]

One more reason to not live there!
A prime example of what is wrong with the school system. They should of told us this stuff young so we could get out of here in time. I would not know how to live anyplace else although I think I would enjoy it. Ha school system dont get me started. Pre-k kids make guns with their fingers and get sent home from school. When asked what did they think they were doing? Playing Cowboys and Indians. Nuff said sorry got off track.

[Ickisrulz]

I would not know how to live anyplace else although I think I would enjoy it.

I spent my first 18 years in Greenfield Center (outside Saratoga Springs). Here's how you get out of there...you just move.

[Outer Rondacker]

I spent my first 18 years in Greenfield Center (outside Saratoga Springs). Here's how you get out of there...you just move.
I am on the other side of the mountain on the Sacandaga Lake. One key part of that statement is "first 18 years". If I would of left young I think it would have been fine but at my age not sure my roots could handle a transplant. Guess I am stuck with the bs. Then again I am a mountain man we are not really known for following bs.

Back to the topic at hand. I am looking at this holster the OP vid is using and not sure how I feel about it. Any thoughts on if it might help speed up draw time and control?

[km101]

Since Texas passed Open Carry, my draw time has decreased considerably. But I am not worried about a fast draw. As stated previously, situational awareness helps to keep you from having to draw quickly and that's where I am putting the most effort. Improving any of your skills is a good thing, and I applaud those who are working on their draw. I just don't think it's the best use of my effort.

And I will always remember the quote, even if I can't remember who said it: "Speed's fine, but accuracy's fatal". I think it was Bill Jordan.

[Schrag4]

Did not Wyatt Earp say accuracy counts, speed doesn't.

Under the stress of a actual firefight, I seriously doubt most anyone is going to be calm as when doing practice.

But it all sounds good on the internet.

It's not about being calm. It's about not spending any CPU cycles to get the gun drawn. If you've done it a million times, you'll know how to do it without thinking about it. It's no different than being able to hit the brakes in an emergency without having to think "Ok, release the gas, move my foot over, press the brake" like we all did when we first started driving. Is pressing the brakes any different when you're calmly approaching a stop light vs when a tree falls on the road in front of you? You're much less calm in one situation, but in both you're not using your brain to press the brake, and it's merely because of many, many, repetitions.