AR15 with Lee C225-55-RF mold - terrible groupings

[Rizzo]

First time casting for my AR15 (Windham Weaponry AR15 5.56 1 in 9 twist) using a Lee C225-55-RF mold and bullets gas checked and sized to .225".
I do cast for several handgun calibers.

I did some load testing shooting five shots each with Win 748 powder at 22.0 grn. to 25.0 grns. at .5 grain intervals, and using a chronograph, rifle scope and bench rest.

I checked zero at 75 yards with my standard FMJ reloads (25.8 grn. Win748 @ 2.250" COAL) and then started my lead cast load testing.

The groupings were all over the place with some not hitting the paper target (8-1/2" x 11").
I might get two, maybe three on paper but that was it and the grouping was around 10 inches or so.

After shooting the 23.5 grain loads and still having bad groupings I checked the scope mounting and it was tight so I checked zero again with my standard loads and it was right on.

I went all the way to 25.0 grains with the same terrible groupings and not all hitting the paper. Re-checked zero again - OK.

Velocity at 22.0 grains = 2224 fps avg. and at 25.0 grains = 2655 fps avg.
No leading at all.

I'm puzzled!
The cast bullets are tumble lubed with Lee Liq. Alox.
Should I wipe any lube off of the seated bullets in case that is causing problems?
The bullet has a flat point compared to pointed on my FMJ reloads.

Anyone have success with the C225-55-RF cast bullet?

Tips, advice, suggestions???

Thanks

[Jupiter7]

Too fast. I'd also disassemble the BCG and check for lube buildup and/or lead. I've had best luck around 1800-1900 with .223.

[Dusty Bannister]

"I did some load testing shooting five shots each with Win 748 powder at 22.0 grn. to 25.0 grns. at .5 grain intervals, and using a chronograph, rifle scope and bench rest."

Looks like you used the data right out of the Hodgdon manual for the 55 Grain Bar TSX bullet. You probably would be better off to work with the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook data for cast bullets.

[Boolit_Head]

Not sure but the liquid Alox might not provide enough lube at that speed. Try a handful of conventionally lubed or better yet powder coated boolits to compare the results.

[fredj338]

You didn't say what alloy but I would bet you need a higher BHN to get groups to settle down. I am running a powder coated flat base n my 6.8 @ 2000fps with decent 3" 5 shot 100yd groups.

[runfiverun]

yep alloy will play an important role in the 223's success.
I use a 4/6/90 alloy and weight sort [into .1 weight groups] and toss the outliers.
that's after visually culling anything that isn't near perfect.

[bruce drake]

Too fast for that bullet. throttle it back to 1900fps max. You may find your best accuracy is even slower but getting the load to a more respectable 1900fps will allow you to a better starting point. Even gas-checked, that bullet is probably having all it can to be stable at that speed.

[robg]

Slow down a little see if things improve.

[6622729]

Slow down a little see if things improve.

WAY too fast for that bullet. As was mentioned, get under 2000fps. Don't change anything else and see what happens. Changing more than one variable at a time will just leave you guessing and frustrated. Clearly you are too fast so slow down first. If that doesn't help then start changing other things like alloy. You are at least at COWW hardness right?

[upnorthwis]

I don't agree with slowing down. I took mine to 2500 fps just to get it to cycle, but they are powder coated WW and sized to .227. Try some unsized first. Don't know if you are crimping or not, but my experience is they must be crimped for feeding. Otherwise there will be stoppages. Mine is also a 1:9"

[Rizzo]

Thank you all for the replies and advice.

The speed issue makes sense.
I am going to redo my testing and load some lighter loads in order to get the speed down to 1800-2000 fps and see how that works.
I am going to shoot some 15.0 grains to 21.0 grain loads of Win748 in one grain increments to see which load brings me in that range.

I am using an air cooled alloy that gives me a BHN of 20.0 for my boolits.

I'll report back with my results in a day or so.

[Rizzo]

I don't agree with slowing down. I took mine to 2500 fps just to get it to cycle, but they are powder coated WW and sized to .227. Try some unsized first. Don't know if you are crimping or not, but my experience is they must be crimped for feeding. Otherwise there will be stoppages. Mine is also a 1:9"

Are you using the Lee C225-55-RF mold for your boolits?
If you don't mind, what is your load data that you use?

As mentioned, I am sizing to .225" but also use the sizer to install the gas checks so I can't see how I could skip that step and shoot unsized.
I do apply a crimp but not too heavy. Mainly to remove the "belling" from the M dye after seating the boolit.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Does your boolit look like the one in the top photo? which is Lee's copy of the RCBS design,
Or like Midsouth's 22 bator(bottom photo), which is seemingly advertised as a C225-55-RF, but it looks way different and they are usually closer to 50gr than 55gr. Anyway, the Short Bator is less likely to stabilize in a fast twist AR barrel...and do better in a 1:12 or 1:14 twist of a 22 hornet or 222rem bolt gun.

Lee's standard C225-55-RF
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR83ws21Jjkxbc6Cg5IPLaY5b2Pib_Fe _Wx1AYaAFr3oPBO2KyF
==============

22 Bator
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/hornetguy/bator50-50003.jpg
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/22-Bator-point225-Diameter-2-Cavity-Mold-C225-55-RF

[quilbilly]

Too fast for that bullet. throttle it back to 1900fps max. You may find your best accuracy is even slower but getting the load to a more respectable 1900fps will allow you to a better starting point. Even gas-checked, that bullet is probably having all it can to be stable at that speed. Ditto!

[robg]

Cast for the first time with my lee 55g mold yesterday,great mold boolits fell out with no effort .can't get a push through sizer yet so I'm going to use my press to push them on hopefuly .I'll use pistol powder for 22mag speeds

[upnorthwis]

Rizzo
I'm using the RCBS mold. Per JonB in Glencoe it was copied by Lee. Am using 21.6 gr. AA2520. I only push them in the sizer deep enough to put the gas checks on. I should not have said "sized to .227" because that's the size they are after PC and I don't actually size them, only put GC on. I kept going up in powder until I had reliable cycling and it turned out to be 2500fps. I shoot them in 3-gun out to 100 yds then switch to jacketed for longer distances. From my memory, I'm shooting about 2-1/2" groups at 100 yds. Plenty accurate for the usual cardboard silhouette. It actually works with unsized and lubed boolits too, but at one match we had to shoot thru a long culvert and there was so much smoke from lube, I couldn't see the targets very well. That's the reason I PC them.

[Rizzo]

Thank you all for the replies and advice.

The speed issue makes sense.
I am going to redo my testing and load some lighter loads in order to get the speed down to 1800-2000 fps and see how that works.
I am going to shoot some 15.0 grains to 21.0 grain loads of Win748 in one grain increments to see which load brings me in that range.

I am using an air cooled alloy that gives me a BHN of 20.0 for my boolits.

I'll report back with my results in a day or so.

UPDATE:

Had to have hand surgery so my testing was delayed.
I reduced my powder loads in order to reduce the speed and found the groupings getting smaller, but still terrible.
My best 5 shot group was 1-1/2 inches at 75 yards (with one flyer) but it would not cycle. I had cycling issues at 16.0 and 17.0 grains as well. Groups were 5-6 inches in other tests.

At this point I do not know what to do.
Perhaps jack up the BHN from 20 to 30 and retest?
Different powder?, but I do not see why that would help.
I do cull out any cast bullets that do not look good.

<sigh> Shooting Lead Cast bullets for rifles is more challenging than I thought it would be.
Suggestions?
Thanks

[spfd1903]

I have shot the Bator in my Howa bolt rifle and my bil's Savage bolt rifle. They are both 1:12 twist. Use a 50/50 lead and lino alloy sized to .224. With the gas check and two coats of Alox they weigh about 52 grains. I just got a chronograph, so the velocity has been unknown. Using Accurate 5744, they do a 1 inch + group from the Howa

at 100 yards and less from the Savage. The powder may not be of any help with your AR.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

Different powder?, but I do not see why that would help.

interesting timing, I haven't loaded cast for the AR yet, but last night got my Die setup together for the 4 hole turret (I needed to hone out a Bonanza BR seat die for .226 boolits) and did some case prep...
ANYWAY,
I am loading some HM² 225-62-1 (kinda similar to the Lee).
Many others have posted success with H4895 powder, so that is my plan, I have assembling some from, 17gr to 21gr. I do believe the powder can make the difference.

[runfiverun]

cut the bhn and weight sort.
you can get that boolit up over 2700 fps but you can't slop it.
pay attention to the target..
everything matters.

[35remington]

The shorter the bullet, the less spin it needs to stabilize. Thus the shorter Bator will stabilize at lower speed than the longer RCBS clone in the same (probably 1-7 to 1-9) twist barrel, but in any event a fast twist AR will stabilize either at speeds that cycle the action. Neither will be "overspun" at speeds likely to give good accuracy for persons just starting out in using cast in AR's. That means.....slow it down.

Here we want "easy" at first, not "advanced." "Easy" is found at a speed that just barely cycles the action and locks the bolt back on an empty magazine, the point being good practice loads that have reasonable accuracy. My own AR's will cycle with a 62 grain bullet at only 1800 fps with around 15 grains IMR 4198 or 17-18 grains H4895. Since powders of this speed are sensitive to position in the case, and shifting position with powder will vary velocity, and varying velocity may prevent the gun from cycling reliably, when flirting with the low end and "easy" results I use dacron to keep the powder in one place.

Velocities may vary up to 200 fps with shifting powder position. Powder forward may result in a failure to cycle when the same amount of powder to the rear near the primer may give perfect function. When the round slams home it tends to throw the powder toward the bullet (forward).

LLA tumble provides ample lube, especially when considering match shooters often lube only the portion above the gascheck and nothing else on the bullet, even at 2700 fps speeds. I sometime tumble lube myself and have no issues doing so.

Stay away from that velocity vicinity and reassure yourself you can make the gun function and shoot decently at a much lower speed first. Walk before you try to run. Try some extruded powders as well.

[6622729]

UPDATE:

Had to have hand surgery so my testing was delayed.
I reduced my powder loads in order to reduce the speed and found the groupings getting smaller, but still terrible.
My best 5 shot group was 1-1/2 inches at 75 yards (with one flyer) but it would not cycle. I had cycling issues at 16.0 and 17.0 grains as well. Groups were 5-6 inches in other tests.

At this point I do not know what to do.
Perhaps jack up the BHN from 20 to 30 and retest?
Different powder?, but I do not see why that would help.
I do cull out any cast bullets that do not look good.

<sigh> Shooting Lead Cast bullets for rifles is more challenging than I thought it would be.
Suggestions?
Thanks

You definitely do not have to go harder alloy if you're already at 20BHN. Get under 2000fps. As for 1.5" being a terrible grouping at 75yds, unless this thing is clamped down, I don't think that's terrible, especially from an AR.

[Rizzo]

cut the bhn and weight sort.
you can get that boolit up over 2700 fps but you can't slop it.
pay attention to the target..
everything matters.

Thanks for the suggestions.
Ok, I'll try BHN of 15 and see how it works.
But, my logic tells me a softer bullet would deform easier than a harder bullet and add to accuracy problems.
BHN 0f 15 sound OK to you?...or lower?

[Rizzo]

You definitely do not have to go harder alloy if you're already at 20BHN. Get under 2000fps. As for 1.5" being a terrible grouping at 75yds, unless this thing is clamped down, I don't think that's terrible, especially from an AR.

Yes, I could live with that 1.5" grouping but it would not cycle at that powder amount (16 grns. on Win 748 @ 1620 fps avg.)
I also had cycling problems up to 17.3 grains @ 1750 fps.

Looks like my next step is to lower the BHN and retest.
Then I'll try some other powders (BLC-2, 4064, 4227...)
Persistence!!

[runfiverun]

15 is about where I am.
your not gonna cycle an AR rifle until you get to the 19 gr level. [of 748 or 4895]
they run on gas volume.

[Moonie]

We have only 1 5.56 upper in the family (we prefer other calibers) and it runs 50-55gr boolits with 16gr H4895 with an intermediate length gas system.

[Roha Waha]

Google the Internet for an article called " why grown men cry " it has much information on casting and shooting. 223/5.56.

[runfiverun]

or just roll the mouse wheel down a few inches and click on cast pics.

[Rizzo]

I read in this thread "...everything matters..."

So, I am getting ready to start my next phase of load testing for my lead cast Lee C225-55-RF bullets.
I've casted the bullets with a lower BHN (approx 14 from previous 20), visually culled any that didn't look right and weight sorted them.
My cases are all under 1.750" so I chose not to trim them. They range from 1.739" to 1.744". I sorted those also by length.
Since I tumble lube with Lee Liquid Alox I was wondering if after I seat the bullets, would wiping off the lube on the exposed bullets help in the groupings?
Perhaps the lube may be adding some imbalance and causing a not so straight trajectory?

Looking forward to the next shooting to see the results.
Hopefully I see some improvement.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Anyone here have an AR15 with a high round count of cast boolits? I know lead can build up in an AK, wondering if it's the same with direct gas. I don't want to scrub lead out of hard to reach places.

Thanks for any feed back.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156326-AR-15-500-Round-Cast-Bullet-Test

[KrakenFan69]

I have somewhere near 1,000 but I Hi-Tek coat so that may not fit your question. I have no leading signs. Carbon I fouling I get. But that's another story.

Kraken Fan #69

[BHuij]

I'll preface this by saying I have theoretical knowledge only (haven't cast anything for my recently-finished .223 AR build yet).

But from what I read, the trick is getting the boolit to shoot soft enough to group well (with most people agreeing that the 1900ish FPS mark is where the boolit stabilizes best, depending on alloy and a few other factors), but hard enough to cycle the action.

There are parameters you can change to help find the right balance here:

1. Boolit hardness. If I understand correctly, harder boolit = you can push it harder before you lose all your stability and therefore accuracy. This is assuming of course that you're doing a good job culling out boolits with bad casts (wrinkles, voids, etc.)

2. Lubrication. Powder coat seems to be the best bet if you want to push it harder.

3. Buffer spring strength. A weaker spring should cycle your action more reliably on softer loads. However if you go too soft, you might be in a bad place to use factory loads or jacketed reloads.

4. Powder. Faster burning powder = sooner and usually higher peak pressure. Slower burning powder = increased potential to get an incomplete burn before the boolit exits the muzzle, depending on barrel length, charge, etc. Incomplete burn leads to more fouling than usual. TBH I'm not sure if a faster burn would help you cycle more reliably at the equivalent FPS, or make things worse. I still haven't picked a powder to try haha.

Good luck!

[Grmps]

I'd make sure the barrel is clean before starting each load group on the ladder test.
RCBS recommended straight linotype for their 223 molds.
Pc does help but is not a cure-all.
You could try putting in a larger/or adjustable gas block to improve cycling with lighter loads.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive fooled with the same thing with the same bullet with the same results. I tried the pc'd, conventionaly lubed, conventionaly lubed and pc'd. Ive tried them with ww, water dropped ww, 5050 lino/ww and straight lino. Sized to 225 and 227, shot it 1-7 1-8 and 1-9 twists all with about miserable accuracy. Now I can keep them on paper at 50 yards so in a shtf senerio a guy could use them if it was all he had but that's about it. All the advice to slow them down is fine in a bolt gun but like me hes shooting them in an AR and I'm sure would like to get them to run semi auto and that takes 2600 fps in my 16 inch guns to do it a 100 percent reliable in all 5 of my 5.56 ars. Bottom line is I think were just asking to much of a cast bullet to stand up to those pressures and twists. I just gave up and bought a couple thousand more ball bullets. Like I said I still have a coffee can of them just in case but it sure wasn't a success. Just like my attempt to run 100s subsonic. I tried every powder in the cabinet and found some loads that came close but just about all of them needed just over subsonic to run the gun. Bottom line is cast and ARs can either be said to not work well together (other then my beo) or to much work for the slight chance your going to find something that's going to work. If you want to run cast in an AR step up to at least a 300 blackout.

[Larry Gibson]

The Lyman 225415 along with the RCBS and Lee clones suffer from to little bearing surface and too much unsupported node. However, in my 12" twist AR, M70 and M700V that bullet design shoots 2 moa or less running 2250 fps at 100 yards. In my 9" twist AR and Savage Competition the same load is lucky to hold any "group.....more like "improved cylinder". All bullet holes are nice round caliber size so stability is not the problem. In the 12" twist run the RPM is 135,000. In the 9" twist the RPM is 180,000........funny how that works........

[bruce drake]

Larry, Have you tried Mihec's heavier 69 and 75gr molds yet in your AR rifles? I have the 69gr mold and I was getting an average of 3.0" at 100 yards with them through both 20" 1-7 and 1-9" AR Uppers with a load of 23.5gr of IMR4831. I need to start experimenting with this bullet and caliber again now that I've figured out the PCing process to see if that helps also.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?228976-MiHec-s-226-69gr-RN-This-mold-was-supposed-to-have-been-a-227-75gr-but-oh-well!
Bruce

[leadman]

I posted several years ago about my experiments with Hi-Tek coating and the 223 Rem. I was heat treating lino and doing a modified baking of the HT with water quenching after baking. My bhn remained around 30. I used Hornady copper gas checks in my successful loads in which I obtained over 3,600 fps in my 23" Contender barrel. In my AR these loads still obtained 3,000 fps. Accuracy at this velocity in both guns ran around 2 1/2" at 100 yards. There was "debris" left in the barrels with build up after 5 shots to affect the grouping but brushed out with one pass.The amount of H4895 I used was beyond what was listed in the manuals but was done to test the bullets only.
If I held velocity down to about 2,700 to 3,000 fps accuracy improved to the 1" to 1 1/2" range with no debris.
I also have been shooting a Contender 21" 22 K Hornet for at least 20 years with cast with excellent results.

My recommendation is to change your lube to either Veral Smith's Blue Soft or Lyman's moly lube. Both can be applied by hand before sizing. Change the bhn of your alloy by using linotype or heat treating. I chose lino because it casts the little bullets so much better. If you want to shoot to full jacketed velocities heat treat the lino. Weight sort to + or - .2 grs. Use only visually perfect bullets and Hornady copper gas checks. I size to .225" for both guns. Also make sure you are not shaving any lead off the bullet when seating. A Lyman neck expander die works well for ensuring the bullets are seated undamaged.
I do not shoot any jacketed bullets if I am going to shoot cast in the same range session thru the same gun. If you do I recommend you clean the barrel before trying the cast if you shoot jacketed first. This seems to be more of a factor with the 22 caliber than larger calibers.
The 22 caliber cast bullets are very finicky compared to larger calibers so everything needs to be just right.

[marek313]

The 22 caliber cast bullets are very finicky compared to larger calibers so everything needs to be just right.

This is exactly the reason I purchased another upper in 300 Blackout. I wanted to use cast in my AR but after reading many failed attempts I changed my mind and went with the 300 which is way easier to cast for. I only use FMJ in .223 considering the price I dont think its worth messing with cast.

[Larry Gibson]

Bruce

No, I have not tried the heavier bullets I cast myself yet. I've had a MP 227-65 for some time but haven't gotten around to it yet.....too many other HV irons in the fire. A couple years back leadman gave me some of his heat treated Hi-tech coated 225438s to test with 4895. They were harder than woodpeckers lips! I found they did very well up to 26-2700 fps if also lubed with a conventional lube....I believe I used 2500+ on them.

[zubrato]

Consensus on power coating vs traditional lube for 223?


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[bpatterson84]

I use the lee 55gr, at 2500fps, powdercoated, gaschecked, and sized to .224. 3moa groups, which is fine for the plinking ammo it is.

[Lloyd Smale]

I wouldn't even fool with conventional lubes especially if shooting them in an AR. Your going to get leading at over 2500fps no matter what alloy or lube your using. I don't have enough experience with pc at those velocitys but the little I did do it I had no leading and the biggest advantage is there are SO MUCH cleaner. Ars get filthy real quick and cast bullet lube makes them filthy in a couple mags.
Consensus on power coating vs traditional lube for 223?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[leadman]

I have used both the LBT Blue Soft made by Veral Smith and Lyman's Moly lube at over 2,700 fps to 3,000 fps in the 223 with no leading. It does start to fail around 3,000 fps by leaving easy to brush out debris in the barrel. In a 16" AR15 if held to around 2,700 fps they work fine.
The bullet needs to be very hard, well over 20bhn for these velocities. Aluminum gas checks don't work well on the 22 caliber bullets if high velocity is the goal. Gator copper gas checks do not work as well as the Hornady copper checks. Might be the more rounded base of the Gator checks but not sure of the cause.

[Sghinds]

I have great luck with the Lee 225-55 using gas checks and powder coating. No buildup that I have noticed in about 300-400 rounds so far.
212601

[bruce drake]

Bruce

No, I have not tried the heavier bullets I cast myself yet. I've had a MP 227-65 for some time but haven't gotten around to it yet.....too many other HV irons in the fire. A couple years back leadman gave me some of his heat treated Hi-tech coated 225438s to test with 4895. They were harder than woodpeckers lips! I found they did very well up to 26-2700 fps if also lubed with a conventional lube....I believe I used 2500+ on them.

So....just a small sample of 225438s were used.... :) LOL!
Bruce

[zubrato]

I had pretty good results with the MP 75gr bullets sized and gas checked at 225 with carnauba red for lube. Worked fine, no leading and decent accuracy, though I did not do any strict accuracy tests, just kept working up with h4895 until I got function in my ar15. Don’t have results in front of me as I’m currently out of state, but it still put a serious wallop on steel, almost indistinguishable from jacketed 55gr on mild steel.
I will be revisiting this sometime in the future with powder coat and now that I’m using the vltor a5 buffer system which will cycle a much wider range of ammo effectively.

Iirc I really hated how quickly h4895 heated up the barrel after one mag it was ridiculous, felt like 4-5 mag dumps of regular 223.



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[fcvan]

I started out casting the Lyman 225-415 and using Carnuba Red from White Label. Running 14.5 grains of 4227 was getting me 2250fps and full cycling of a Ruger 180 model Mini 14. This is a 14" (with a muzzle brake welded and pinned to make it 16") with a 1-10" twist. Then I started powder coating.

I bought an NOE 62gr RN PB mold just for powder coating (no lube groove) and is also shot great from the Mini 14. BTW, the alloy is 50/50 wheel weight/soft lead. I did use straight wheel weight with the Lyman before powder coating. I'm sure straight wheel weight would do better, haven't gone there yet. The softer lead just does so well on tin cans and other such fodder.

I built an AR15 with a 1-9" twist that did not want to cycle at 14.5 grains, but grouped okay (NOE mold). As I increased the powder, the groups spread. I reduced the buffer spring and played with the load. It would cycle but it still would not group. I reconciled the NOE boolit would just be for the Mini 14 and the Lyman would be for the AR15.

Recently, I picked up a NEF single shot .223 which had sat on the shelf at a local shop forever. 24" Bull barrel, 1-12" twist, no sights. I slapped a fixed 4x long eye relief scope and took it out. Loves the NOE boolit, gives 2350fps due to the longer barrel. I am now seriously considering a 1-10" or 1-12" twist barrel for the AR15, just for shooting cast boolits.

I may order a 20" AR15 bbl without threads for a CA only build with a fixed stock and magazine. Sounds silly because I shoot more in OR or CO these days, I just want to thumb my nose at the ****ard's in my former home state whenever I go west to mow the lawn and spoil some grand babies. That, and be able to go shooting with friends who are still stuck in that messed up place that used to be a great state, CA.

[swheeler]

So....just a small sample of 225438s were used.... :) LOL!
Bruce

Bruce 2500+ was the lube he used on the hitech coated bullets IIRC about 100 of the done in red copper.

[bruce drake]

Bruce 2500+ was the lube he used on the hitech coated bullets IIRC about 100 of the done in red copper.

Oh Ok! I've used Lar's X-Lox and their Carnauba Red 2700 in the past on my high velocity cast work and they do work. I've got about 100 of my 69gr polycoated bullets sized and loaded for a trip to the range soon for their first range test also.

[robert12345]

Some guns were never designed for cast bullets, and the 5.56/223 in the AR rifle, is very much one of them.

The AR 15 is at its best with a jacketed bullet, and nothing else.

To shoot cast in the AR, is to turn the gun, into a very expensive, and very very finicky.... 22 magnum.
.
.
A fellow would be better off, to take the 100 bucks invested in setting up to cast, and put the money into a pile of .224 diameter mil surplus bullets from the gun show...Then put them away for the future..
.
In Marlin 30-30 I use the lyman bullet at 1800 fps.
In Marlin 45/70 I use the 330 Gould, at 1500 fps

The remainder of my cast bullets are now used in 38, 357, and 9mm, and be done with the rest.
.
Great cast bullet cartridges are:
30/40
3030
32 win
35 rem .. etc.
AKA: Fat bullets which were designed to shoot at around 1800 to 2200 fps.

Bad cast bullet ctgs are the pretty much rest.
270
223
220 s
22/250 etc.
And in truth, one is better off not to waste his time trying to cast for those.
.
Were I to give advice, I would say, "save the high velocity cartridges, ...for high velocity, and in them, shoot jacketed bullets."

Its a lot less trouble that way..

[35remington]

Funny.....my heavy barrel 22 250 shoots cast extremely well at 1800-2200 fps. As does my 270. Before one believes someone who says they can’t do something, try believing someone who says they can. While not of the same utility as full power loads in these calibers, these reduced velocity loads save barrel life and are suitable for all game below deer size.

I am not wasting my time when accurate and useful loads are assembled at low cost.

[bruce drake]

Bob,

You are only are as good as the challenges you put in front of yourself. 30 caliber cast bullets are easy to get to shoot well in cast, and then you move onto the next challenge. For me, I'm shooting cast bullets in 6.5mm and 223 caliber with a lot of success because of trial and error and attention to detail on the processes. Surprise yourself one day and do a search through the group archives and you would be surprised what can be done in calibers other than the "usual"