Getting good boolits reliably

[happy7]

Well, lately, I have taken the recommendation of some here and cranked my RCBS pot to max temp. Then to avoid excessive frosting, a la Richard Lee I use a wet washcloth on the table to cool the mold for a couple seconds between casts. This has led to almost zero rejects after the mold is up to temp and my boolits are less frosted than before. Also rhythm seems to be less important because I can just eliminate or reduce the cooling step if I need to stop to add weights or throw back sprue or take a leak or whatever. I am thinking of trying the dual mold technique next time I cast and see if that works just as well. I have also found that the hardness of the sprue is a useful indication as to timing of the number of seconds to leave the mold on the washcloth.

That and using brake cleaner right before I start heating my mold to get the corrosion inhibiter (Rem Oil) off has made my casting a whole lot more successful lately.

So I am interested in comments and suggestions. I know this is not a new technique, I just wish i had tried it sooner.

[Buckshot]

.................Using a very hot alloy in cooler mould blocks has proven to me that you get very good fillout and about max boolit OD the mould is capable of.

http://www.fototime.com/FC7FB74B506D8FB/standard.jpg

Lee GB 6.5mm Kurtz cast @ 900*. Blocks cooled on damp pad before re-filling.

..............Buckshot

[happy7]

That is interesting about OD, Buckshot. I had wondered how OD would be affected.

Those are some beautiful boolits.

[Three44s]

I reduced my rejects by running my WW alloy twice and tossing Marvelux about as far it would DROP KICK ...... I flux with bullet lube and get more smoke and better boolits.

I have not been bothered by bullets frosting and with Lee Microband bullets the "frost" gives one more surface area for the LLA to adhere to.

Three 44s

[trickyasafox]

I too flux twice- which I think means I'm not fluxing well enough the first time. after I make ingots, when I melt to actually cast I flux again. don't get much out but I think it helps.

I run the pot full out too. I don't get many rejects- but that could just be that I'm not very picky.

[looseprojectile]

I for one, have always wondered how others could get good fillout at the lower temps that they report using. I started out with a campstove and probably had the melt near vaporizing. Who knew? There was no internet in the mid fifties.
I have cast boolits from anything that looked to have some lead in it.
I have also not had any problem with fillout. When I started shooting the .357 magnum the factory loads came with soft lead boolits that left lead wires coming out of the muzzle after only six shots. I realized that to get less/no leading I had to use something to change the alloy to something other than pure lead. At this time I was casting, loading and shooting from one to five hundred rounds a day. Did not have time for anything else. Components were very cheap. By experimenting with various additives to the melt I got to the point where I had no leading and great accuracy.
These were all full house and loads and more. I think my point here is that I dont have the patience to try to run the pot at a lower temperature just to get shiny boolits. More heat is nearly always the answer to casting problems if your mould and melt is clean.
Life is good

[Cherokee]

I cast at high temp using two molds usually. I preheat the molds on a hot plate so that usually the first pour yields good bullets.

[leftiye]

Buckshot,
Concerning boolit diameter and mold temp, my take on your approach (cold mold hot alloy) is that the hotter alloy is the reason for the better fillout. Molds do expand as they are hotter, so there should be larger boolits from hotter molds. Interestingly, the cavities become larger too. The expansion that results is as if the mold expands from the center of the blocks irrespective of the cavity.

Regardless, if your blocks are hot enough to produce frosting, they ain't especially cool! Though frosting results from hot lead as well as it does from hot molds.

[45 2.1]

You need to learn while looking over the shoulder of someone who does get excellent boolits casting on the cold end. This is much like welding, the best welders run on the cold side and make beautifull welds.

[runfiverun]

i do the opposite as buckshot does,
i usually run a fairly hot mold and cooler lead temp. [close to 650 or less]
which usually gives them that flat grey color.
but i only use iron molds.

[Marlin Junky]

Your bullet quality depends greatly on the method of delivering the alloy to the mold. I think it's better to pour cooler metal (circa 700F*) into a mold faster than pouring hotter metal slower. Granted with a full, bottom pouring furnace or a Lyman/RCBS dipper the speed which you can fill the mold is limited by the hole in the nozzle which is why I went to a Rowell#2 ladle. I think two molds in rotation is the best way to prevent over heating. I've tried cooling with a wet towel and it complicates mold clean-up. Not only that, but jerking a mold's temp up and down rapidly can't be good for it. Actually, I think this is the reason I warped a nice brass mold.

*Note: Will depend on alloy, block material/volume, cavity volume, number of grease grooves and even bullet design (e.g., SWC vs. tangent ogive).

MJ

[montana_charlie]

You need to learn while looking over the shoulder of someone who does get excellent boolits casting on the cold end.
Having read the previuos replies, I surmise this was intended for looseprojectile.
He also said...

I for one, have always wondered how others could get good fillout at the lower temps that they report using.

When I started shooting the .357 magnum the factory loads came with soft lead boolits that left lead wires coming out of the muzzle after only six shots.

At this time I was casting, loading and shooting from one to five hundred rounds a day.

These were all full house and loads and more.

I think my point here is that I dont have the patience to try to run the pot at a lower temperature just to get shiny boolits. More heat is nearly always the answer to casting problems if your mould and melt is clean.
To which I would suggest that revolver bullets must perform in an environment unlike that any other bullet sees.
For that reason, I believe it matters little (within certain general parameters) how 'good' they are when cast...making them fine fodder for the impatient.

The slug loaded in the chamber must be free of internal voids, and meet some general size, weight, and hardness requirements.
The revolver will use that raw material to create the 'bullet' which exits the muzzle.

A bullet of mediocre quality can probably provide performance rated as (at least) 'acceptable' when fired from a revolver.

CM

[looseprojectile]

45 2 1
Why?

[looseprojectile]

45 2.1, Please tell me how your boolits cast from cooler metal are in any way better quality than my frosted ones and convince me that I have to learn to cast with cooler metal. I always strive to improve my methods and to improve the quality of the castings. I confess that I use a bottom pour pot, old Lyman #65.
Montana Charlie, I don't see my boolits as being unidentifiable lumps that the gun has to iron out just because the metal was really hot when I cast the boolits. Splain please.
I have many times thought it must be one of the mysteries of the universe as to how a wheel gun can be so accurate considering the trip the boolit makes from the chamber to the muzzle. I do mostly shoot rifles now though.
Happy seven seems to have applied the method I adopted in the mid fifties. I suspect his boolits are much the same as mine. Are they inferior?
Life is good

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/2D536DBA57B9FA1/standard.jpg

..............The above photo shows the Lee 358-158-RF. It's a photo I've posted several times in the past. They were cast out of the same 6 cavity set of blocks, and of WW equivilent alloy. They were all cast with the alloy at the same temp, and that is close to 900 degrees. The difference was block tempurature.

The boolit on the left was cast in cooer cavities, and cast as fast as possible. The proceedure was to fill the mould, then roll the sprueplate across a damp pad. Open the blocks to empty the boolits. On the way back to the pot for re-filling, the base of the blocks was set on the damp rag for about a 3 count then refilled and repeat. Well filled out.

The boolit in the center was cast with just the sprue cooled. The blocks were opened, slugs ejected then the blocks were refilled. The boolit has a dull silver appearance and is well filled out.

The slug on the right was cast in hot blocks. The sprue was allowed to cool normally. There was a slight hesitation to open the blocks after the sprue flashed over. Boolits dumped and refilled. Due to the lack of resolution of my old camera you can't see the surface clear enough. The surface has a well developed crystaline structure yet is quite smooth and it exhibits a bit of reflection. These boolits are exceedingly well filled out with all details sharply defined.

The boolit on the left and the right miked almost exactly the same OD. The one in the middle was measurably smaller in girth, but not unusably so. I used to have the measurements but have forgotten them as this was done several years ago. The fastest to cast was the center, then the left and finally the right one.

It's something that's easy enough to test on your own.

.................Buckshot

[45 2.1]

45 2.1, Please tell me how your boolits cast from cooler metal are in any way better quality than my frosted ones and convince me that I have to learn to cast with cooler metal. I always strive to improve my methods and to improve the quality of the castings. I confess that I use a bottom pour pot, old Lyman #65.
Montana Charlie, I don't see my boolits as being unidentifiable lumps that the gun has to iron out just because the metal was really hot when I cast the boolits. Splain please.
I have many times thought it must be one of the mysteries of the universe as to how a wheel gun can be so accurate considering the trip the boolit makes from the chamber to the muzzle. I do mostly shoot rifles now though.
Happy seven seems to have applied the method I adopted in the mid fifties. I suspect his boolits are much the same as mine. Are they inferior?
Life is good

Regardless of what CM thinks, the reply was directed at happy7, the threads originator, not you. As for your method of casting, if your happy with it, keep doing it. I on the other hand have went thru the entire heat range looking for a simple way of getting not good, but excellent boolits that have little if any weight variation. I found that with lower temperature casting without subjecting the mold to a larger heating/cooling cycle. You will find better, more accurate boolits with a big pot, correct alloy and an appropriate sized dipper for the mold your useing, but again, use what your happy with.

[Down South]

The above photo shows the Lee 358-158-RF.

I have that exact same mould and just used it a few days ago to cast several hundred Boolits. That is one fine Boolit and accurate too.
Thanks for the casting tips. I'm gonna have to try that first one to see how it comes out.

[looseprojectile]

45 2.1;
Looks as though I have erected a wall of ignorance around myself!

:castmine: :drinks::roll: :-D

[45 2.1]

45 2.1;
Looks as though I have erected a wall of ignorance around myself!

:castmine: :drinks::roll: :-D

Nope, you didn't. You asked a question. Try other options out when you cast, there is always the possibility you will find something that works better. Weigh your boolits and see what the spread is. When you can cast them with little or no weight spread, then you will have better boolits.

[runfiverun]

the testing thing also helps to set your technique, take notes on your molds as you go you will be glad you did.
i have some i pour some i force feed, and some that like a nice dribble.
getting to know a mold is like a rifle.... if you dont use it for a year or so and no notes there is a learning curve and you already did all the work...

[happy7]

This is great, getting a lot of good feedback. And I would love to spend an afternoon watching each of you cast! I only wish there were more casters close to me.