reloading the 311284 in .30-06

[BrentD]

I have an old custom 1903 Sporter in .30-06. it was probably made by Steve Menier in the 1920s. Anyway, I have only loaded for this rifle recently and I'm using the 311284 bullet (~220 gr in Lyman #2), from an NOE mould, and Hornady gas checks. The bullet is lubed with a combination of Liquid Alox and Johnson's Liquid Floor Wax, and the charge has been 28 grs of 5477 powder.

So all of that is pretty normal, I think. However, I have been told that this powder is best with a strong crimp. The problem is where on the bullet to apply that crimp. If I seat the bullet so that the crimp falls in the groove at the top of the first driving band, the OAL of the cartridge will be a long ways off the lands in the throat.

If I load it longer, and seat behind the first driving band, then the bullet has to engrave about 1/2 of that driving band in order to close the bolt. This can take a fair bit of force. Also, accuracy is not great. So, where would one best seat this bullet? Is seating and crimping on top of that first, wide driving band a good idea?

I have little experience with such modern bullets so any help would be appreciated.

Brent

[Vann]

I seat mine to the C.o.a.l. that's listed in the Lyman cast bullet book. I've never tried 5744 in my 30-06, I did try it in the 30-30 and a 308 but didn't care for the unburned powder left in the barrel. So far I've worked up my best loads in all 3 with IMR 4064.

[Scharfschuetze]

Most bolt rifles do not really require a crimp with this boolit. I'd just load to an overall length that feeds reliably from you magazine and then just apply enough crimp to close the bell from your M Die or RCBS belling die.

My personal approach is to use a 308 Winchester taper crimp die as a final and separate step and to apply just enough crimp to the lip of the case onto the first driving band below the scraping groove of the boolit (very top groove) for a firm grip and then and call it good. When sized to .310" and using a .308" diameter expanding plug on the neck I get more than enough boolit tension and crimp without compressing or damaging the boolit.

My overall length (OAL) is determined by the longest OAL that will function through the magazine. I like my boolits to snuggle up to rifling whenever it is possible, but without having to force chamber the round.

My personal favorite powders with this boolit or other heavy boolits are SR 4759 up to 4895. I get my best accuracy at around 1,800 to 1,900 fps with these boolits, particularly if the nose rides the lands of the bore properly.

[BrentD]

I crimp hard with the 5477 on the recommendation of Mike Venturino. He really likes this powder for .30-40s and all other .30cals, but he says it needs a hard crimp to burn cleanly. 4759 seems pointless to chase since it is going out of production. 4895 I have and could try and I have had a few recommendations for 3031.

I would like my bullets loaded so they just begin to engrave the lands, but this is something I picked up from BPC shooting, and perhaps that is not relevant here. Anyway, it seems that there is no decent point to crimp that is at all close to the max overall length that the throat will allow. I'm either way too long or way too short.

I'll have to do some more homework I guess. Or look for a powder that doesn't need much crimp

Brnet

PS. OAL could be MUCH longer and still work in the magazine.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

A mannamed Marshall wrote an article published in one of the Lyman reloading manuals and he advocated the use of 4759 in the 30/06 using Lyman 311284 at around 1900 fps. He marked his mold with a punch so that he could orient the bullet in the same position for each shot.He got excellent grouping, but Lyman got all bent out of shape about marking the molds and got into a rant about it. IIRC the rifle he used was a model 70

[Scharfschuetze]

If you can't find SR 4759, look for IMR 4198. It's burning rate is similar and it performs well enough. It isn't as bulky as 4759, but I've never found that to be an issue.

Don't get too wrapped up in the crimp. I often shoot my Ought-Six rifles (1903, 1917, M1 Garand, Pre-64 Model 70) with no crimp at all. Moderate neck tension is really all you need as long as you have a smidgen (say .003") of neck tension and perhaps a snug boolit to lead fit. Unlike your BP experience, smokeless doesn't need the firm crimp that some BP rounds are wont. The heavy for calibre 311284 will also provide quite a bit of inertia to get the powder burning uniformly.

[BrentD]

BP almost never uses any crimp whatsoever.
I guess, I'll just try crimping in the middle of the first driving band and see what happens.

[lotech]

I don't crimp any rifle cartridges unless absolutely necessary. As for a crimp to facilitate complete powder combustion with 5744, it may be worth a try. I use 5744 in a number of rifle cartridges, including the .30-06. If it burns dirty or incomplete (and I really haven't paid close attention), it hasn't been to the extent of causing concern. Accuracy has been very good using this powder and the Lyman #314299 in the .30-40, .308, and .30-06.

I tried #311284 some years ago in the .30-06 without great success. However, in support of the bullet, I must mention my work was very limited and I believe it was prior to the introduction of 5744. Maybe I need to cast a few and try it again.

[guicksylver]

A lot has been said here all good.
I have 6 03's, everyone loves the 311284.
Mine are sized .311 for both the 4 grouve and 2 grouve (I have a Mark 1 with a 2 grouve).
I seat just shy of engraving the rifling,my loads are 29-30 grs 4064, 12.7 grs Red Dot best 5 shot group with that one was 11/16 ths at 100 yds.
16-17 grs 2400 should give you 1 minute.
.003 neck tension no crimp ever.
Neck size only.
4198 and reloader 7 should give great results at around 20-21 grs.

[guicksylver]

If you want something amazing,
Try the NOE 315 with 18 grs 2400 or 22 grs Reloader 7.
You will never look at cast boolits the same way again.

[RPRNY]

I don't recommend a hard crimp for several reasons. The first is that you run the real risk of resizing the bullet base down and inviting gas cutting. The second is that while 5744, like 4227 (my favorite for cast 30 cal) does burn a little dirty, by seating just an 1/10" or less off the lands with that lovely heavy 311284, hopefully sized to fill the throat, you will get sufficient resistance to ensure a full burn, at least in a 20" plus barrel. It's much more important to get seating length right than a hard crimp, in my opinion.

[boatbum101]

I use the same bullet in my 4 groove 1903 . 26.0gr H4895 , a tuft of dacron , Rem 9 1/2 primer , cast with linotype , LBT Blue lube & seated to just kiss the rifling ( 3.545 in my rifle ) . No crimp , I neck size with Redding bushing die . Yes they feed through the magazine . Am able to get 1 1/4 MOA out to 200yds with this load . 5744 never gave me the accuracy that either 4759 or H4895 has given , regardless of caliber I tried .