.223 lead barrel twist recomendations

[compass will]

Looking at adding a .223 heavy barrel to my H&R buffalo classic.

My 45-70 buffalo classic has to go back to the factory because it keeps popping open, even with trap door loads. So while its there, I figure I might as well have them fit an additional barrel to it.

My question is I am thinking of getting a 223 Rem., 22" Bull barrel.
From what I understand it's a 1 in 9 twist. The jacketed bullet guys say that twist will be great for jacket bullets, but what about for lead boolets?

I was thinking of using this barrel to play with the cast boolet guys, punching paper at 100 and 200 yards. First is 1 in 9 twist OK for cast, and any recommendations on what weight GC bullet and mold i should look at? I understand the H&R will not be my best choice for bench rest stuff, but its cheep enough to allow me to start now instead of waiting until I can afford something different. A lot of the guys are using CPA rifles; way more then I can afford to spend on this sport right now.

thanks in advance for your guidance. :drinks:

[carpetman]

Compass Wiil---Don't know the twist off the top of my head,but my Win Mod 70 in .223 is NOT a cast shooter. Great with jacketed. Different .222's and 22-250 I have do great using the 58 grain RCBS.

[felix]

It looks like they have a 22-250. Get that if it has the 14 twist. That case shoots good. ... felix

[compass will]

Here are the choices:
I removed a couple that were pistol or rim fire.
.204 Ruger 1 in 12"
.22 Hornet 1 n 12"
.223 1 in 12", late models are a mix of 1:9"/1:12", 2007 Marlin produced barrels are 1:9"
.22-250 1 in 14"
.25/06 1 in 10"
.243 1 in 10"
.270 1 in 10"
.280 1 in 10"
.308 1 in 10"
.357 Mag 1 in 18¾"
.357 Maxi 1 in 18¾"
.35 Whelen 1 in 16"
7mm-08 1 in 10"
7.62x39 1 in 9¾"
7x57 1 in 10"
7x64 1 in 10"
7mm Rem Mag 1:9.5"
.30/30 1 in 10"
.30/06 1 in 10"
.300 Win Mag 1:10"
.38/55 1 in 18" (I don't think you can get this one anymore)
.44 Mag 1 in 38"
.450 Marlin 1 in 20"
.500 S&W 1 in 18¾"

[Larry Gibson]

get the 12" twist or a custom barrel with 14" twist (preferred). Both will handle jacketed bullets up through 55 grs (14" twist won't do so well with BTs in cold tepmeratures) with excellent accuracy, especially the SX and Blitz type. The 14" will provide the best accuracy with cast bullets of nominal 50-60 gr weight at 2000+ fps. Less RPM with the 14" twist is the reason.

Larry Gibson

[JIMinPHX]

Did you call NEF to ask them if the current barrels are 1:12 or 1:9? Also, don’t wait around too long. That plant in Gardner is getting closed down soon, now that Remington bought them out.

[compass will]

Did you call NEF to ask them if the current barrels are 1:12 or 1:9? Also, don’t wait around too long. That plant in Gardner is getting closed down soon, now that Remington bought them out.

the operation in Gardner is really moving to NY. Already checked with them on that one. I will be sending it in 2 weeks. I need to use my Moms address so someone will be there when they return it, but Mom and Dad are out in the motor home now.

I will call first to make sure about the 1:12 vrs 1:9, I am being told that marlin started making the barrels for H&R last year, and all the marlin 223's are 1:9

I also need to look into the 22-250 for Felix. That's a pretty large case if I recall, but I guess I could still slow it down for plinking.

[felix]

The 22-250 case is quite unique for a "modern" caliber. It slopes quite well, making reduced loads work better than normally would be expected. This is because the priming action tends to reflect off of the walls of the case down across the powder in a more uniform fashion. ... felix

[Blammer]

so in a cast bullet of 22 caliber, wt of approximately 65gr, what is the optimal twist for it?

[beagle]

I'd go with the 1-12 twist. That shoots pretty good for me./beagle

[felix]

If lino, or more tin than lino, then 12 twist. ... felix

[randyrat]

Compass Will, The 22-250 is a small case like the .223..... The "shock N Aw" is awsome and blistering.

[compass will]

So are we all in agreement that the 22-250 with 1:14 would be a better choice then a .223 with 1:9 for shooting gas checked Lead boolets?

Most of what I will be doing is shooting lead I cast at paper. Every once and while I might splurge and buy some jacked stuff but I tend to be happy just shooting lead. Also, keep in mind this is for a H&R rifle, not a top of the line "insert name here" bench rest target rifle.

Here are my choices:
22-250 22" standard barrel $87.00
22-250 22" Stainless $116.00
22-250 Rem., 24" Bull, Fluted $126.00

223 Rem., 20" $87.00
223 Rem., 22" Standard barrel $87.00
223 Rem., 22" Stainless $116.00
223 Rem., 22" Bull $98.00
223 Rem., 24" Bull $106.00
223 Rem., 24" Bull, Fluted $126.00


Being "thrifty" I tend to look at the lower priced barrels.

I will probably be using a Mueller APV 4.5 X 14 40MM scope since I had one before and was very happy with it (and it's price right for this project @ around $120.00)

I have heard the phrase "optics should cost as much as the gun". That's why I shoot open sights! Am I going to see a benefit from the more expensive barrels if I don't guy a real expensive scope?

Which barrel would you buy?

[felix]

First barrel mentioned should suffice. Thinking about the intentions you have. ... felix

[Gene Perryman]

Based on the Greenhill formula, you need a 1/9 or faster twist to shoot accurately out to two hundred yards. 1/12 is a good short range light bullet twist. My personal recommendation, go with 1/9........
At Camp Perry they're shooting a 1/7 out to 600 yds!!!!

Gene Perryman

[mike in co]

Based on the Greenhill formula, you need a 1/9 or faster twist to shoot accurately out to two hundred yards. 1/12 is a good short range light bullet twist. My personal recommendation, go with 1/9........
At Camp Perry they're shooting a 1/7 out to 600 yds!!!!

Gene Perryman


gene...those are not cast boolits and not cast boolit speed........they actually shoot 223 out to 1000 yards......but again not cast boolits....this is a question on cast boolits.

mike in co

[GabbyM]

They use the 1/7" twist to shoot 80 gr. bullets. Not sure you could make a cast boolit that long and skinny without it bending. Sierra has a 90 grain .22 out but at full power in a 5.56mm they sometimes blow up in flight.

A SP nose cast the length of those 80 grain Sierra with long ogive would be very heavy. The twist rate required is a function of how long the bullet is. Not it's weight. That's why we can shoot heavy short blunt nose boolits at low velocity and low spin RPM in rifles. Where the same weight bullet in a long ogive point would be unstable.

PS
Actually the 80 grain bullets only require a 1/8 twist. Military has the 1/7 to shoot bullets with steel pinned cores which are very long.

[Larry Gibson]

The slower 12 and 14" twist barrel are going to be more accurate at higher velocity with cast bullets regardless of what is done with jacketed bullets in the .223.

Larry Gibson

[andrew375]

I shoot .223, 1 in 9" twist. No problem.

[JIMinPHX]

You didn’t say if the barrels you priced up have sights or scope bases on them. Usually you get one or the other. The barrel that I got with a scope mount had no provisions for mounting sights. The barrel that I got with iron sights was already drilled & tapped for the scope base. Usually the price is the same for the barrel either way. The scope bases can be purchased from H&R separately for reasonable money. Not all barrels are available with sights. You might want to check into that too. The sights appear to be off the shelf Williams WGOS sights, so getting them later should be no problem. But drilling & tapping the holes in the right place, so they line up, without going in too close to the bore at the front, is probably something that you would want to let the factory do.

[JIMinPHX]

My 1:12 handi .223 can shoot 3/8” group with 40 & 50 grain J-word bullets. It shoots horribly with heavier (longer) j-word bullets that a 1:9 semi-auto gun eats for breakfast. For j-word bullets I need to stay with 50-grain or less in that 1:12 gun. Since lead boolits are usually more blunt than J-word bullets, a heavier lead boolit may be acceptable in that twist since it will be shorter than a j-word bullet of the same weight. Greenhill’s formula for selecting the proper bullet at a given twist uses bullet length, not weight as the deciding factor.

I am just starting to work up cast loads for my handi. So far I am having fair results with 55-grain lead slugs. I haven’t gotten better than a 3” group yet. I still haven’t convinced myself that 1:12 is the way to go here. I’m not sure that it isn’t but I’m not yet sure that it is either. I had ordered my new barrel from H&R a few months ago expecting a 1:9 so that I could compare the two side by side, apples to apples, but I got a 1:12 just like my other one from several years ago. Perhaps because I ordered iron sights, I got an old one that had been laying around for a long time.

I just started fooling around with lead in this thing a few months ago, so I have only my limited experience here to offer you. If you find out that they have 1:9 .223 barrels in stock with iron sights, please let me know.

Thanks,
Jim

[JIMinPHX]

PS
Actually the 80 grain bullets only require a 1/8 twist. Military has the 1/7 to shoot bullets with steel pinned cores which are very long.

I thought that the 1:7 was needed for the very-long late-ignition tracers. But hey, I’m no army ammo specialist here. That’s just what I have read in a few places.

[compass will]

I think all the barrels I listed come with the hammer extension and the scope base mount (I will double check before buying since that is my requirements). Should look funny, my buffalo classic straight stock with the tang sight still mounted, and a scope on the barrel.

I think by the time I do send it in, they will have the 22-250 24" bull barrel back in stock, that's what I am leaning towards currently, unless someone speaks out and says "NO, NOT FOR CAST"

I am just confused from all that I read. I hear people saying the .223 barrel will "out last" a 22-250 barrel by 3X or 4X. I read how you need faster twist to shoot heaver bullets. I check out this greenfield calculator and it talks about how 1:14 is only good for a bullet a little longer then 1/2", So I talk to the cast experts (here) and they say for cast, go 1:14.

I bet I will shoot 1000 cast for every 10 jacketed so I assume barrel wear will not be an issue?. But until I get a mold I will at least buy a couple 100 jacketed just to hear it go bang (Unless I find someone here that wants to sell some cast so I have a better idea what mold to buy. )

I Did like the price on that Lee "special order" mold over at Midsouth, but everything I look at for the 22-250 is out of stock (molds, brass, sizers, etc)

That about sums it up?

[leftiye]

My Handi Rifle 22 Hornet Barrel that I got last summer has a 1 in 10 twist FWIW. Am working up loads at present.