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NM156B
01-31-2016, 01:32 AM
I am already casting silver boolits for my 1860 Colt, and am starting this thread looking for individuals who want to help perfect this project.

Current project website is here : https://sites.google.com/site/vwgsilverbullet/home

This can be done at virtually no expense (except for the silver... ;-) ) and without any high-tech equipment (except for the wife's Orek vacuum cleaner and her Foodsaver appliance)

There are already plenty of forum threads regarding why it is stupid to make them, why they are inferior ballistics, why you will injure or kill yourself making them, why you will kill or injure yourself when firing them, why Tonto never probably made them, why werewolves don’t like them, how hard it is to kill a werewolf, etc.,. This thread, however, is simply to see if there are others who for whatever reason want to cast them (and since you clicked the link… grin)

The primary objective is the KISS principle while ensuring that the project continues to be done with simple inexpensive crafting tools like those I use or have already made listed on the website.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnJNwP8JANo

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My cast silver 44cal round next to swaged lead.


And here is a raw silver conical bullet, straight from the fire and quench, cast from a .454 mold

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And now polished.

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For February here, the addition of the Minie-Ball for my 1861 Springfield. Cast from a Lee 500-.575 mold, this first edition casting clocks in at .571, see later post on second page of this thread for details.

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13 April, solved issue of silver shrinkage for caliber sizing. This is a perfect .440 conical. see later post on second page of this thread for details.

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22 April, yes, you can use a sizing die to take a .441 solid casting down to .439 easily. see page 2 for details.

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01 May : 45 Colt. See page 2 for details

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rondog
01-31-2016, 02:45 AM
Mmm, isn't lead, like, a LOT cheaper? I could see casting a couple for a novel addition to a cartridge collection, but I'd never actually shoot one, I'm far too cheap for that.

I LOVE silver, I still grieve over having to sell all of mine. Used to have an Englehard 100oz. bar, it was awesome and beautiful.

NM156B
01-31-2016, 03:05 AM
...Used to have an Englehard 100oz. bar, it was awesome and beautiful.

Heck, you could have made ~250 of the 44cal round ball with that thing! Agreed, when polished, silver is awesome.

hickfu
01-31-2016, 04:05 AM
Yeah I was wondering this myself.... Why would anyone shoot a PM? and if you want to do that then why not shoot a solid gold boolit, its closer to lead then silver.

Tatume
01-31-2016, 08:24 AM
Silver coinage (like we used to have) has the benefit of helping to keep us healthy. Handling silver imparts an antimicrobial effect, helping to ward off sickness. Silver jewelry is good for the same reason.

Shiloh
01-31-2016, 08:39 AM
Gonna shoot this are you??
Might be able to use data for a solid bronze bullet. I'd recommend against it as I have not seen data for silver or gold bullets.

Shiloh

Finster101
01-31-2016, 08:51 AM
One or two silver 44-40s would look really cool in a display case but I don't think I could ever bring myself to shoot them if I had them.

mdi
01-31-2016, 12:51 PM
The primary objective is the KISS principle and ensuring that the project is able to be done with simple crafting tools like those I use or have already made listed on the website. I believe this is the key problem. I don't think many bullet casters have equipment that will melt silver (1600+ degrees F) and not sure how the molds would differ (lead vs. silver). I've cast 1/4 bizillion bullets but own nothing that will melt silver (besides, I'm too cheap to use up my bullion to make shiny boolits)...

NM156B
01-31-2016, 02:15 PM
... I don't think many bullet casters have equipment that will melt silver (1600+ degrees F)

If you have a $20 propane torch (had been sitting in my basement for years left over from a copper pipe plumbing project I had done), then you can melt it, that is how I am doing it. See website and youtube video that is listed there.

Regards!

CastingFool
01-31-2016, 04:40 PM
I had a few pieces of silver left over from the time I cast some rings using the lost wax method, and decided to melt it into one single piece. used my propane torch and an ingot mold made from cast iron, and melted the silver right in it. so a torch will definitely provide enough heat.

David2011
01-31-2016, 05:35 PM
[QUOTE=mdi;3526667]I've cast 1/4 bizillion bullets. . . QUOTE]

Now THAT's just funny. Thanks for the laugh!

David

NM156B
01-31-2016, 07:21 PM
Gonna shoot this are you??


Absolutely! We are going to do a ballistics-gel video :popcorn: of it (gives the added benefit of us being able to retrieve the round). We already know that the performance is going to suck, but it will be one heck of a fun project that at the most will only cost us $7 if we lose the round. And before anyone posts a dire reply to this statement, yes, we will be taking proper safety precautions.

bottomline
01-31-2016, 08:20 PM
The things I read on this site never cease to amaze me. I applaud the out of the box thinking.

DickelDawg
01-31-2016, 08:28 PM
Only guy who had the where with all to reload silver bullets was the Lone Ranger.

BNE
01-31-2016, 10:04 PM
Are you sure the hardness will not damage your barrel?

NM156B
01-31-2016, 10:44 PM
Are you sure the hardness will not damage your barrel?

Hardness is ~ the same as the solid copper Lehigh Defense rounds I have tested. I absolutely do NOT plan on firing these things full time for target practice, but shoving a couple down range shouldn't be too harsh on the steel.

cold1
01-31-2016, 11:41 PM
So, is the plaster of Paris porous enough to let the vacuum suck the liquid silver in?

I love the "make do with what you got" design of the project.

NM156B
02-01-2016, 12:46 AM
So, is the plaster of Paris porous enough to let the vacuum suck the liquid silver in?

I love the "make do with what you got" design of the project.

The DAP brand plaster of paris hasn't failed me yet. It's just porous enough to allow the vacuum to suck the liquid silver in, and just "not porous" enough to keep the liquid metal in the cavity, though a slight silver clouding effect occurs on the surface of the casting (most likely due to an ever so slight leaching or burnoff effect) that then needs to be polished off. This is one of the parts that I need others to brainstorm with me on. Molten silver has a bad trait where it likes to "freeze" as soon as it hits something that will absorb it's heat. I tried adding just a quarter of a Dixie-cup of sand to the mold in order to make the matrix sturdier, but this simply resulted in the liquid silver freezing immediately upon touching the sprue hole and it all simply pooled on the top of the mold instead of going into the cavity. Granted, my molds are at room temperature when I use them, so I made another one with the sand, but left it in the oven at ~300 degrees and only pulled it out when I was ready to pour. "Some" silver made it in to the cavity (about half a bullet worth) but the same freezing occurred at the sprue hole. It is possible that if I "really really" heat the metal up by leaving the torch on it for another 5 minutes or so I might be able to get it to work, but not sure at this point if the plaster can take the extra heat shock. Or maybe I need to try something other than sand. Thanks for the positive feedback!

Three44s
02-05-2016, 01:24 AM
Silver coinage (like we used to have) has the benefit of helping to keep us healthy. Handling silver imparts an antimicrobial effect, helping to ward off sickness. Silver jewelry is good for the same reason.

Ok, so if one is shot with a silver boolit ........ you are gonna not get infected?

........ just kidding!

(I use a silver solution for sore throat every now and then and it helps!)

Best regards

Three 44s

aquarist
02-05-2016, 01:46 AM
I'm excited to see pictures of the gel after you shoot it!

NM156B
02-05-2016, 10:57 PM
Conical Silver Bullet, just pulled from the fire and quench tonight, made from a .454 mold. Just a quick example here on how close the fault tolerances are via this process of casting a silver bullet. Will post final results after sprue cut, cleanup and polish.
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aquarist
02-06-2016, 03:02 AM
That's cool, are you going to shoot that one too? I've a few lead rounds that I've cast and was able to collect but nothing as cool as having a reclaimed silver bullet.

NM156B
02-06-2016, 09:05 PM
That's cool, are you going to shoot that one too?

Here is the above conical after it has been cleaned up. As for shooting this one, it is actually too perfect of a cast for me to shoot! Long story short, the round ball mold I use is an exact .440 that I picked up specifically for this project, I want the round to fit down the cylinder so I don't have to "plunger" it like lead since the silver will be too hard. Also, at this point in time I am not sure if I want the round to actually engage any rifling at all. Alas, for the conical, I used the lead .454 mold (the only conical one I have) which is perfectly sized for lead since it gets plungered down into the cylinder creating a shaving lead ring for perfect seating. Hence, I need to either get a proper .440 conical mold, or I need to get sizing dies to reduce accordingly.
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gusbratz
02-10-2016, 09:05 PM
I think it's cool. guess we are not the only people interested, http://www.apmex.com/category/73323/apmex-ammo-silver-bullets

NM156B
02-11-2016, 02:47 AM
I think it's cool. guess we are not the only people interested...

Ah, the ones at the link you provided are non firing solid casts of the bullet and cartridge profile, not the physical bullet projectile itself. Still, I agree with you, there is an interest but for some reason, nobody at the high end silversmithing is making them.

NM156B
02-18-2016, 01:45 AM
For February here, the addition of the Minie-Ball for my 1861 Springfield. Cast from a Lee 500-.575 mold, this first edition casting clocks in at .571 after the polish. This one nearly destroyed the cast it was in, the bottom of the round was far too close to the bottom of the mold, I'm raiding the medicine cabinet looking for a larger pill bottle (the Ibuprofen one might work...)

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Here it is, immediately after the pour. note how the cast materiel is charred right out to the outside edge of the mold walls! This casting took me an entire 2 ounces of silver to make, the boolit itself only used ~1.2 ounces but I didn't want to take any chances, good thing since when I tipped the crucible to pour, some of the silver ran off the end of the mold. Click to enlarge the images.

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NM156B
04-13-2016, 12:13 AM
SILVER SHRINKAGE : I solved the problem of silver shrinkage. I found that the process of making the wax model in the bullet mold, making the plaster of paris casting, and then pouring the silver resulted in a bullet that was consistently .005 inches smaller (after a 1 hour tumble with steel shot) than a lead round made from the same mold. I subsequently got a hold of a .445 conical mold, made a silver bullet from it, and I am clocked in at my projected target diameter of .440 for my 1860 colt. This bullet will/should perfectly engage the rifling without any excess when in the forcing cone. Any silver fouling should be minimal. This is the round I will use for my video.
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M-Tecs
04-13-2016, 12:41 AM
I was contracted to do some for a display. I cast I lead than had them silver plated.

NM156B
04-22-2016, 10:00 PM
USING SIZING DIE - 22 April : This is a near flawless conical casting that micrometered at .441. With all the threads on how difficult it is to size jacketed bullets, I thought it would be nearly impossible to ram this through my .439 sizing die (was sure it would get stuck “at best”). I placed a thin layer of lanolin on it, and it pushed through in one fluid motion with ease. Note how the sizing process “polished” the sides up, you easily see where the die shaped it down.

The second picture is the round polished to a mirror finish, perfectly sized. I am ready to tackle the .45 Long Colt silver bullet project next.

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snowtigger
04-24-2016, 08:22 AM
A few years ago, I cast some 6% silver bullets. I heated the pot to it's highest setting. According to my RCBS thermometer it was 1070 degrees with 6lbs of wheel weights in it. I added 6oz of .999 silver. It took a while,but, the silver slowly melted into the alloy. I used it to cast the Lee 310 grain 44 bullet. I don't remember what weight they cast , but they shot fine.
I sacrificed one to a rudimentary test( set it on an anvil and hit it with a three pound hammer). It performed well, it expanded and did not fracture.
BTW They shined up real pretty and looked awesome in my gun belt LOL...

NM156B
04-24-2016, 10:17 PM
A few years ago, I cast some 6% silver bullets...
Just curious, what did the 6% do for the patina of the bullet? Pure lead that I cast dulls fairly quickly, would be curious if the silver hinders oxidation.

snowtigger
04-25-2016, 06:48 AM
They would eventually tarnish like any silver, but a quick turn in a cotton cloth made them shine all over again...

GONRA
04-28-2016, 04:59 PM
GONRA's olde memory (?) recalls an article in a late 1950's (I think) GUNS Magazine.
Some joker cast and shot silver boolits, emulating the Lone Ranger's silver bullets.
Nothing spectacular, just usual "cast boolit" type discussion....

johnson1942
04-28-2016, 09:58 PM
ok here is some facts with silver alloy bullets. the old timers who shot paperpatched bullets and hunted buffalo would use pure lead with a couple of silver dimes in the pot when they cast for the next day shooting. they made bullets that formed out better in the mold easier and fell out of the mold easier. nothing else but pure lead and a very small amount of silver. i have tried this and it really works. get the low temp. silver solder for brownells and cut a strip off and throw it in the pot when you cast. you will like the results. its been done for alot of years and works.

Ricochet
04-30-2016, 09:49 AM
Using bullet moulds to cast wax forms for lost wax casting is a brilliant idea! It sure is easier to just use pewter, lead free solder or babbitt in a regular mould for decorative "silver" boolits that will pass. I know, it's not the real thing. But will a werewolf know the difference? I've never shot one that did.

NM156B
05-01-2016, 09:57 PM
...But will a werewolf know the difference? I've never shot one that did.
All depends on how real the werewolf is... ;)

NM156B
05-01-2016, 09:58 PM
45 Colt : And for today, hot off the press (literally) today, a solid silver 45 Colt bullet, sitting on top of 30 grains FFF and a felt wad, all encased in a nickel-plated cartridge.
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gilgsn
05-02-2016, 06:36 AM
Wouldn't gold be easier?

Gil

dondiego
05-02-2016, 10:27 AM
Werewolves prefer gold.

Hueyville
05-02-2016, 02:25 PM
Been away from the site for a while due to busy life and health keeping me busy. I did this about 30 years ago with the help of a now deceased friend who was a custom jeweler. We (as in me doing a lot of watching and holding) used lost wax technique and was a royally huge pain. Ended up with six nice 44 caliber Keith bullets in silver and a pair of 45 acp round nose in 14 carat gold.

All were loaded in cases and live rounds which could have been fired if necessary. All mysteriously disappeared during a party sponsored by ex wife. Current wife of 23 years would have shot someone before they got into my gun room. Ex was likely culpable in disappearance as one of few who knew which display rounds were which. Always wanted to do again, appreciate the thread. Doubt will be any gold bullets but a cylinder full of silver bullets for werewolf season would be nice conversation pieces.

SweetMk
05-02-2016, 03:20 PM
I still have the ring I made out of a silver spoon in high school shop class
It was made with the lost wax process and a centrifuge,,,

When I "fired" the centrifuge,,, the smoke that came out convinced me the process was a failure,,
I opened the mold, the ring was perfect.

That was 1968,,,

About a decade later I visited the business that made lost wax castings commercially.
The owner showed me a large bin of revolver frames,
the frames were the of the same gun that had killed Lee Harvey Oswald,,,

NM156B
05-02-2016, 09:55 PM
...When I "fired" the centrifuge...

Yep, at the onset of this project I watched the videos of those using a centrifuge, scary thought of 2k degree molten metal spewing out horizontally made me a bit nervous (particularly if the centrifuge was home made), hence I went with the home made vacuum table design. I simply make sure that the exhaust from the vacuum cleaner is not pointed in my direction...

NoZombies
07-11-2016, 05:10 PM
I made a bunch of silver bullets up several years ago, I used a commercial vacuum table and flask, and treed the wax bullets so that I could pour a number all at once. The waxes were made using a very small lathe, and they came out ready for cleaning and polishing. They shot fine, but were nothing to write home about.

You're on the right path, but doing the burnout immediately prior to casting will reduce your sprue freezing issues.

mozeppa
07-11-2016, 05:50 PM
my .45 colt boolits

NM156B
07-11-2016, 09:36 PM
Ah, just figured out how to insert the video clip...

Thanks NoZombies and Mozeppa for the feedback, please shoot me any additional pointers you might have!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnJNwP8JANo

Hickok
07-12-2016, 08:39 AM
Perfect "negative reflex shot." The werewolf would have dropped without a quiver!:lol:

Traffer
07-12-2016, 12:30 PM
I used to make jewelry. Silver is investment cast for cheap. We always had a home made centrifuge. Just an arm with a flex joint like an elbow mounted to a wind up spring which was mounted to the middle of a galvanized steel tub about 24" in diameter. I am sure you can find a zillion videos on youtube on how to do it. Then you can make any shape you want with the lost wax method. I would also suggest sliver or gold plated cases. Also pretty easy process to electroplate the brass. Then you're talkin. Gold case with silver bullet. That would be quite beautiful. Make up a magazine full of em, take em to a crowded range and shoot them like it's an every day thing. Then son, yo will be cool.

NM156B
07-12-2016, 12:50 PM
... I would also suggest sliver or gold plated cases.

Ah, you can't tell on the video too well, but the cases are nickel plated, but darn you have me thinking that silver plating my own brass cases would be a hell of a lot cooler... you might have just given me another project! Grin/sigh. As for being cool at the range, yep, it would be... until I would then halt the firing line by running down range with my metal detector for the next hour searching for them... ;) was just lucky that the one in the video was caught in the 4th jug!

popper
07-12-2016, 03:02 PM
Silver is a very good hardening agent for lead. Copper is cheaper. Everyone know the Lone Ranger just shot people in the hand - so he could recover the silver (or was that the guy who drank shots of milk with a human hair and ate 'special roots'?). As a kid I always thought he said 'Hi-Ho Silver' but low and behold it's officially 'Hi-Yo Silver'. Documented by large old billboard poster at Washington on the Brazos. "Gimoozaabi is said to mean "he looks out in secret". Tonto is actually a Canadian, Harold John Smith, child of Mohawk tribal leader. Enough trivia - back to loading ammo. Well, except most Canadian/American native tribes (N.E. to S.W.) appear to have had a common non-written language. That excludes the 'mexican/S.A./Ca. natives.

bottomline
07-15-2016, 10:24 AM
I love this stuff. Wonder if my wife would notice a couple spoons missing. :cbpour:

NM156B
07-15-2016, 11:11 AM
Wonder if my wife would notice a couple spoons missing...

:goodpost:
Bwahaha, you just gave me my next project! I used pure .999+ with the round on the video, but I'll go ahead and melt down a silver "sterling" spoon and let you know how it performs. It will probably enter the mold a lot easier as an alloy. Don't think the wife would notice one spoon missing...

NM156B
08-06-2016, 07:50 PM
And here are the six-pack inside a leather slider by Western Star Leather, they nicely accommodated my request to customize it by doing the central cutouts that lets the nickel plated cartridges show through.

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