.311 bore with .314 cast bullets

[fenman]

Hi All

is it ok to use .314 cast bullets in .311 bore , I think normally .002 up is right ? its for dragunov svd with 13 1/2 twist ,I thinking of getting NOE 314365 sp gc and if necessary resize ?


cheers Mel

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think that should be fine, although I would feel more confident with gas checks. A lot of people would be surprised, after a lot of successful shooting, if they compared a micrometer reading with what is stamped on the mould.

[Wayne Smith]

.311" bore, what's your groove?

[lotech]

I have a Lyman #314299 mould; as-cast wheelweight bullets measure at least .314", maybe larger. When I obtained this mould new fifteen to twenty years ago, I assumed that a radical diameter reduction during the size/lube procedure would adversely affect accuracy. I've done experimentation using several rifles, comparing accuracy results with this bullet sized to .310" and .311". Even at .310", the bullets shoot reasonably well, though .311" has been slightly better in most rifles.

My blind hog cast bullet experience suggests this may not always be the case. It's important to remember that much of what's done with cast bullets is based only on "conventional wisdom" and is not scientifically proven. Give your inclination a try as it might work very well. Good luck-

[Char-Gar]

If it takes a .314 bullet to fill the barrel throat/leade/ball seat then that is what you need. It doesn't matter about the barrel groove size. I have pushed .314 lead bullets down .308 barrels many thousands of times.

[Walter Laich]

I use .314s all in time in my Uberti Remington pocket pistol. Not a problem for me

[Ballistics in Scotland]

.311" bore, what's your groove?

I was assuming that the OP meant a .311 groove diameter, which would be commonplace on a Dragunov and .311 land diameter very unusual. I also assumed that he meant firing them at .314, rather than reducing them from that diameter in the lube/sizing process. Rifles are contrary beasts, but most likely unsized firing would be fine, with gas-checks possibly advantageous, while plain base bullets sized a little closer to groove diameter would work at plain-base velocities.

[fenman]

I have got my bore slugs out and checked the measurements ,bore is .299 and groove Dia .311 ,so I would ask should I buy .314 bullet and then size and lube to .313 which is + .0002 which i believe is recommended ?

thanks to everybody for your imput

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, that sounds perfectly reasonable, but bullets as cast do vary slightly with temperature or alloy. Sizing to .312 would be a little surer of not having some bullets, or parts of the bullet, with swaged surfaces and others as cast.

I hope the fens aren't producing permanently wrinked toes with the weather we have been having.

[lotech]

As long as they will chamber okay, try them unsized first, then sized. Otherwise, you won't know which diameter provides best accuracy. Slugging the bore will only give you bore dimensions, a crude and not a particularly accurate guide for determining best bullet diameter and fit. Refer to response #5 again and good luck.

[vzerone]

This is getting beat around too much. The consensus appears to be .314 and add me to that too. The fattest that fits the chamber is also good.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I am guessing, but I think the Dragunov was most likely broach rifled, which reduces in groove diameter as a tool so expensive it hurts to scrap one is resharpened, but is consistent from end of barrel to the other. Some barrels do tighten or loosen towards the muzzle though, or have tight spots, and a finished slug only shows the smallest it has been.

If I was slugging a barrel with a view to laying out money, I would do several, stopping and returning from various distances from each end, and I would push a well lubed one all the way through, feeling for any variation in tension.

[fenman]

that may explain my 308 saiga it has a loose section in middle when I sluged it !
the dragunov I fired the slug through with LMR primer and 1 grain of bullseye ,so i think do it again by hand ,in the way you said ,it may be difficult to do it from either end as the barrel is low in receiver , but lets have ago all good learning !

cheers



I am guessing, but I think the Dragunov was most likely broach rifled, which reduces in groove diameter as a tool so expensive it hurts to scrap one is resharpened, but is consistent from end of barrel to the other. Some barrels do tighten or loosen towards the muzzle though, or have tight spots, and a finished slug only shows the smallest it has been.

If I was slugging a barrel with a view to laying out money, I would do several, stopping and returning from various distances from each end, and I would push a well lubed one all the way through, feeling for any variation in tension.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It doesn't take much of a constriction to be felt that way. The Saiga could very likely be improved by lapping the rear constriction. As bore erosion occurs primarily at the rear of the barrel, it might be one of those rifles that improve with age, just like people do.

[fenman]

saiga and dragunov both chrome bores so best left alone ,but to be far the 308 shoots amazing for stretch ak 47 (7.62x39) I shoot lead through it 99% or the time as factory 308 is brutal ,but it shoots that fine apart from the bruises lol

[WALLNUTT]

A quick check that seems to work OK and will get you close is to try your unsized bullet in a fired case. If it doesn't slide in with a little resistance reduce the diameter until it does. If it falls in too easily you need a bigger bullet. Buying a .314 mould for a .311 groove rifle should be fine.

[Yodogsandman]

I shoot .314" boolits in a .310 groove diameter bore (7.62x51). The bore riding section on my Lyman 314299 runs .302" with COWW's and 2% Sn, FYI.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

saiga and dragunov both chrome bores so best left alone ,but to be far the 308 shoots amazing for stretch ak 47 (7.62x39) I shoot lead through it 99% or the time as factory 308 is brutal ,but it shoots that fine apart from the bruises lol

Yes, a chromed bore should be left alone, but it seems like it is working all right. It sounds like a classic case of more metal being deposited near the ends, where the solution circulates most freely. I never heard of a successful benchrest competitor using a chromed bore, although nobody is as much concerned about bore erosion. But it seems to work well enough for about everyone else.

[fenman]

Hi just see the the toes comment lol our local issue is webbed feet and six toes ,I have neither lol , luckily the weather has not got to us excess rain has limited effect on us as the water just lays in the fields ,up your way the excess has to get down off the hills and mountains coursing your floods we all feel for all those that have suffered in the flooding !
our danger is the sea and High spring tides & wind - sea surges ,as my house is 16' below sea level it could go very wrong very quickly ,fingers crossed



Yes, that sounds perfectly reasonable, but bullets as cast do vary slightly with temperature or alloy. Sizing to .312 would be a little surer of not having some bullets, or parts of the bullet, with swaged surfaces and others as cast.

I hope the fens aren't producing permanently wrinked toes with the weather we have been having.

[fenman]

hi all
a friend has just dropped in 200 noe 314365 bullets sized .312 for development ,will let you all know how ,they perform in 13 1/2 twist
svd ,am thinking 25 to 28 grains of reloader 7 is good start ?

[Yodogsandman]

If it takes a .314 bullet to fill the barrel throat/leade/ball seat then that is what you need. It doesn't matter about the barrel groove size. I have pushed .314 lead bullets down .308 barrels many thousands of times.

Is your throat size .312" ?

[fenman]

Hi I have not made a cast of chamber ,so I have measured the ID of neck in several fired cases and it clearly reaches .315 ,so what may do is ask my mate for some as cast 314365 lead bullets and load into a dummy round and see if they chamber ?







Is your throat size .312" ?

[Shiloh]

That would be my choice.

Shiloh

[BAGTIC]

I recently read an article on DTIC about an army experiment comparing the penetration of WW2 30-06 FMJ bullets with British .303 bullets. They fired both through the same .308 barrel with no unusual incidents at all.