Rifle broken by UPS. What is the procedure now?

[corbinace]

Well, after many packages throughout my lifetime, I finally have something of significant value damaged in shipping.

My "new to me" Remington Rolling Block carbine arrived with the stock broken at the grip.

I called UPS within 10 minutes of picking it up at the depot to tell them that my package contained broken contents. They said, no problem come down in the morning and we will get the shipper to ship out another one. When I mentioned that it was antique and there would be no more from this shipper, he said to come down and start a claim.

The box had many fragile stickers all over it and seemed to be packaged well. The box did not appear to be smashed or I would have opened it at the facility.

So, what happens now? I would like to be prepared when I show up at the counter. Can I unpack it from the carton? I could tell it was not a continuous piece as soon as I started slipping it out. I slipped it out of the carton about 12-16 inches and tore away the packing to see if the shipper had maybe shipped it with the stock disconnected from the rifle. Totally shattered.

I have not been in contact with the seller yet as he is sleeping now on the east coast.

If they pay an insurance claim on it can I buy the salvage and restock it? Or, will they pay to restock it? I have never dealt with a shipping damage issue.

I just feel sick about this. It is/was a pretty rifle and I have been wanting one for a long time. Now to have it snatched away as I reached out to grasp it really hurts.

Any help or ideas are welcome.

Tim

[starmac]

Hope you get satisfactory results, but I have my doubts, or think it may be a long time.
I had a friend that paid to have a frozen beef shipped up overnight express. He was getting smelly boxes two months later, and still fighting them for the insurance two years later, don't know if they ever made it right or not. This was Fed X though, hopefully you will have better luck.

[Taylor]

Maybe wrong,but if they pay..they keep.

[Geezer in NH]

If it was not in a hard case you will not get paid. the shipper is the one to make the claim you must keep all the packaging for inspection. I think it is going to need a new stock.

For the "if they pay they keep" sure, when they provide their FFL signed copy. BTDT with them before when I had the gun shop.

[Handloader109]

I would like to suggest that anyone shipping an antique, no any gun, long or otherwise, should put it in a well padded gun case and then inside a corrugated box. Sure, it might be an added cost to have them go buy a decent case that you might not need if you have a safe, but you might want to ship latter. Sorry, I expect that you are wasting your time. Btw, did shipper add additional insurance? Std insurance is $100 with FedEx and ups.

[elk hunter]

UPS broke the stock of a nice collector grade Mauser 98 that a friend had bought. They said they would pay the claim but he had to give them the gun. He told them he couldn't give them the gun because he had an FFL and they didn't. They paid him for a replacement stock. So there appears to be some hope they will do the right thing.

[NSB]

Never ship a gun using UPS. They've broken more stocks at the wrist than anyone on the planet. I received two new High Walls that arrived in undamaged boxes and both were broke in this spot. UPS moves everything around on conveyor belts. One belt will drop a box onto another, and another, etc to get to the correct shipping location truck. Rifles aren't designed to be dropped this way. The wrist is the most fragile part of the gun when it comes to doing this. I worked for a company that built and sold automotive climate control products....radiators, condensers, etc. We gave up on shipping product in single boxes via UPS. Just too many of them arriving damaged. Oddly enough though we had one returned to us from a customer who ordered the wrong part. He threw the box away before finding he had the wrong part and shipped it back via UPS in a clear plastic bag. After traveling a thousand miles in a clear bag the radiator arrived back totally undamaged in any way. They probably didn't know what to do with it and hand carried it to every transfer location. Concerning the gun, if the box is undamaged they'll claim it was put in the box damaged. There's actually a certain amount of logic to this on their part. How can you prove they broke the stock? You're better off receiving a damaged box.....or at least showing them a damaged box.

[Blackwater]

It's been some years back now, but a friend who was heavily into assault type rifles bought a very rare one that would be worth close to $10K now, and it got stolen in transit. Seems his was one of the cases that discovered and prosecuted and convicted a ring of UPS employees, gang banger types mostly, who'd been very regularly stealing firearms from shipments. Never learned just how they were doing it, but he was absolutely sick about it. He really had a passion for getting this rare gun, but .... the best laid plans, etc., etc., etc. So he filed a claim and got his cash back, but he was one who could see this would be a very rare and most likely valuable gun, and he liked to trade for profit. That incident still churns his stomach to this day, 20 years later!

There's just no way to eliminate all risk, unfortunately, and in accord with Murphy's Law, when it strikes, it'll likely be on the gun you most anticipate loving. C'est la' vie, I guess? Sorry to hear of your loss.

[bedbugbilly]

I think Taylor is right on this. It would be no different than if you had a car, were in an accident and the car was stalled out by the insurance company - they pay you off and have "salvage rights" on the totaled car to sell for scrap and recover something, even if minimal.

I may be wrong on this . . . but I purchased a set of Lyman 310 dies that were shipped in a SFRB. When I got it, there were no dies - just a flat box - the seller's fault as they used NO tape on the box. The SFRB has the $50 insurance. In that case, the seller had to file the claim. UPS? Not sure how they work it.

Another time, I bought a rifle from a member here. Same thing as you. Shipped by UPS and when it arrived, the wrist of the stock was broken. I notified the seller and in the end, rather than go through the hassle of a claim, etc. - we mutually agreed to a compromise between us and he refunded a portion of what I paid him. Not every deal would work out that way though.

Before going to the UPS, I'd contact the seller and talk with them first and then proceed from there. In the end, you want the RB even though you'd have to repair it - which certainly will cost money. If a claim is filed and paid, you may loose the RB and some one at UPS will end up with it. Anyway you cut it, it's a hassle. I hope it works out for you so you are able to keep the RB and get it in to shooting shape.

[Blackwater]

Another problem arose in shipping with a friend who sold an item on the S&S section here. He shipped the item, and it was damaged in shipment, and he called me, concerned about who was responsible for the damages. I asked if it had been insured. He said no. I asked if the buyer had requested it be insured. He said no. Then I told him that they were equally responsible for not thinking ahead, since these things DO happen. It'll never replace rare items like the OP's and my friend with the rare assault rifle, but at least it keeps the money straight, which is all that can be done in some instances.

As long as bad people still walk the earth, there's going to be thieves, and some of them will seek out folks like the carriers so they can "score" bigger. And then there are the incopetents, and the "I don't care" types. If I don't request something I buy be shipped insured, and it gets damaged or lost in shipment, I figure it's on me for my neglect. Have had that happen once. The seller hadn't erred in anything he did, so I figured if I'd not thought about asking for insurance, and elevating the price in doing so, it was my fault, ultimately, so just wrote it off to experience. Rules don't change just because it's us who gets burned. Not pleasant, but sure taught me a lesson!

[M-Tecs]

You may have coverage under your NRA membership. About 20 years ago they paid for a replacement stock when a buddy slipped and fell on it while hunting.

[shooter93]

I help out at a Gun maker's shop who is also the local FFL shipper and receiver. We box guns extremely well and have shipped guns valued at 50k or more....but never through UPS. We quit using them when something was damaged in shipping ( a broken stock on a collector gun) and it was a fight to get paid. All were insured and documented. We never got paid without going to court and then they paid quickly. Since then he has used USPS and never had a problem. The only packages that ever got damaged by them....and there have been but 2 with small items.....claims were settled quickly.

[.22-10-45]

Against my better judgement, I had a dealer friend ship a valuable single shot target rifle to me right before Christmas...I usually wait until the rush is over...gun was in hard plastic case inside 2 heavy cardboard outer boxes. when I recieved package, first thing I noticed was black skid marks on one side of box..but box intact. When I opened up hard case stock was broken thru wrist. Case must have become wedged sideways on track & weight of packages flexed case just enough to do the job. I was heartsick!..called my friend..he offered full refund...I really wanted this gun..so he asked what I thought would be reasonable discount due to damage? We settled on $600.00...he said he would get it back from UPS..and after many weeks, he finally did. Professional stockmaker friend repaired for far less than discount & break is nearly invisible unless you know where to look.

[Stewbaby]

Good luck, I had to argue with them for two months over a Turk Mauser stock they broke. I did finally get replacement stock funds out of them but it took continuous badgering.

Keep everything as original as you can for the inspection

159493

[MaryB]

Last time UPS got balky on a claim I filed I took them to small claims court where they paid up plus some extra to cover my day off work.

[corbinace]

This is where we stand today;

I spoke with the seller/shipper this morning and he is committed to making it right. He said to go ahead and submit the claim through UPS. So, I called UPS and they sent me an email detailing the seven pictures that they want me to send along with a detailed description of the packaging and box.

They said that after I send the information, I will be out of the loop and that I should contact shipper because they will only deal with him. Kind of odd I thought.

Once the photos and info are received, they will respond to the shipper by the end of the next business day.

Hopefully this goes smoother than some of the horror stories I see referenced here. I am lucky in that this firearm is not in the same tax bracket as some mentioned. Although, it would have been the most valuable firearm I own and a significant amount of money for me. I am trying to keep it in perspective, life will go on and I will not be sleeping under a bridge.

The end result is that I have learned a valuable lesson here. I had been very fortunate and never had anything damaged in shipping that I can remember. Pretty fortunate for my age. A gun case would have been cheap and easy to acquire for this relatively short rifle, it just did not cross my mind. I will be a bigger participant in the shipping process in the future. None of this is to say that the shipper did anything wrong or poorly, but rather that I left it up to him and put him in a tight spot of having to make all of the decisions.

The shipper is a standup guy and has agreed to participate in the reparations. Neither of us will likely end up whole here. If UPS helps any and we share the pain, we will both survive.

Thank you one and all for the information, admonishments and advice. I appreciate it all, and will endeavor to avoid this in the future.

Tim

[historicfirearms]

One of the local dealers that I do a lot of business with said that UPS is the worst when it comes to damaging rifles. He told of one box that arrived with tire tracks over it, gun stock broken in several pieces.
I work at a small airport and help unload the UPS airplane sometimes. Most of the pilots are really good about carefully unloading. One day a substitute pilot was flying and he literally threw the boxes out the airplane cargo door onto the ramp. That's about a five foot drop onto asphalt. I had to holler at him for that bs.

[OilyPablo]

It's actually excellent that the seller stepped up. As transactions should be. Leave it in his hands for now.

My horror story? I shipped just a stock to someone a good while back. Packed boolitproof. I own two companies and set up shipping for both, trained people, purchase packing materials, the whole 9 yards, ship some heavy heavy stuff. I know how to package items. UPS somehow broke this otherwise pristine stock. Box was not tweaked or otherwise dented. The box would have had to be absolutely crunched to put force on the stock. I gave the buyer a full refund, he kept the broken stock. UPS remains a mystery to me. For all it's warts, USPS damages less items.

[Taylor]

I know that if the Postal Service pays a claim,they normally keep what is damaged.Eventually it ends up in the dumpster.Guns? Straight up don't know.The FFL thing sounds right to me. I also know the shipper,the one who spent the money for mailing,has to be the one to file the claim.The only thing I sent through UPS was broken,a antique cake dish to the wife's aunt,and UPS packed it.She got to keep the broken pieces,and I got reimbursed for the shipping and cost of dish.Took about 2 months.Still no cake dish,one of kind thing.

[w5pv]

Never had any dealings with either delievery service but small claims court seem the way to go,thanks for the post Mary.

[TreeKiller]

My brother stalked a 223 for my from a stack blank i sent him. he put it in a normal cardboard rife box and insured it for $600.00 with UPS. When i got it the stock was broken. UPS claimed it was improperly packaged. He would not fight them so I sent him another stock blank and he made a completely new stock. When he sent that gun to me he made a 3/4 wooden box to ship it in. There was a boot print in the middle of the wooden box when I got it but the rifle was ok.

[tygar]

When I was a dealer I shipped a lot of very expensive guns & never had one broken by the USPS. Had a good 6 or 8 damaged by UPS & a couple by FEDEX.

I "always" insured for full retail + a little. I always got my full insurance amount on damaged firearms & never took longer than 30 days, usually less.

I also "bought back" several from UPS & always made good money doing it. They once broke a double rifle (stock), bought it back, sent it to the manufacturer, & they replaced the stock for a nominal fee. When all was said & done, I received what I sold it for, less the buy back which if I remember was about 25% of the value, then got a new stock for peanuts & sold it again for more than I sold it the first time. Made over 6K on that double.

Another time a Colt Sauer Grand African Grade IV .458 had the stock broken by UPS & sent it back to Colt & then they put a new stock on it for free. Same deal, bought it back & re-sold it.

Now yours is an antique so replacement of the stock may be difficult, but unless things have changed, you should be able to buy it back. Hope so, as I had great success on my deals.