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M-Tecs
01-28-2016, 06:53 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lots-of-cities-have-the-same-lead-pipes-that-poisoned-flint/ar-BBoP7LV?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=edgsp

Just how many lead pipes are there in Flint, Michigan, where the water has been undrinkable because of high lead levels? Nobody knows.

"A lot of work is being done to even understand where the lead services lines fully are, so I would say any numbers you're hearing at this point are still speculation," Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder (R) said Wednesday.

It's a problem that's much bigger than Flint: there are millions of lead pipes all across America, putting children at risk of stunted growth, brain damage and a lifetime of diminished potential. Just this week, residents of Sebring, a town of 8,000 in rural Ohio, were told not to touch their tap water out of lead fears similar to Flint's.

"This is a situation that has the potential to occur in however many places around the country there are lead pipes," Jerry Paulson, emeritus professor of pediatrics and environmental health at George Washington University, said in an interview. "Unless and until those pipes are removed, those communities are at some degree of risk."

There are roughly 7.3 million lead service lines in the U.S., according to an estimate by the Environmental Protection Agency, down from 10.5 million in 1988. Service lines are the pipes connecting water mains to people's houses. They're mostly found in the Midwest and Northeast.

Despite the life-altering consequences of lead poisoning, there is no national plan to get rid of those pipes. A top reason for continuing to use lead service lines instead of immediately digging them up is that utilities can treat water so it forms a coating on the interior of the pipes -- a corrosion barrier that helps prevent lead particles from dislodging and traveling to your faucet. But if the water chemistry changes, the corrosion controls can fail.

That's what happened in Flint after the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality told the Flint Water Treatment Plant not to maintain corrosion controls that had previously been in place before the city switched water sources in 2014.


There is nothing a water utility can do to completely prevent lead leaching from a lead service line.

Yanna Lambrinidou, water safety expert

The federal Safe Drinking Water Act requires water systems and state regulators to monitor lead levels coming out of people's faucets, and if 10 percent of samples have more than 15 parts per billion of lead, then the state has to evaluate its corrosion controls. And if that doesn't reduce the lead levels, then the law requires public water systems to begin replacing 7 percent of their lead service lines every year.

Even replacing the lines can be trouble, however, as the law only requires replacing the lines on public property -- replacing the portion of a lead service line on private property is up to the owner -- and it turns out that replacing just the public portion of a lead service line can cause lead levels to spike in a homeowner's water. That's because the work involved in replacing just part of a lead service line can jostle free lead in the the remaining part of the pipe.

(The Safe Drinking Water Act originally called for utilities to replace the entirety of a lead service line, but lobbying and a lawsuit by the American Water Works Association watered down the rule.)

"There is nothing a water utility can do to completely prevent lead leaching from a lead service line," said Yanna Lambrinidou, a water safety expert who teaches at Virginia Tech.

The EPA is currently considering changes to the Safe Drinking Water Act's lead rules, and an advisory panel has proposed a more proactive approach to replacing lead pipes. Instead of just waiting for higher levels of a deadly neurotoxin to show up in people's tap water, the proposal would encourage public water systems to go ahead and replace the pipes.

Lambrinidou was a member of the working group that crafted the recommendation, but she wound up dissenting because she believed it didn't do enough to force utilities to get lead pipes out of the ground.

"The rule needs to be such that it enforces actual lead service line replacement," Lambrinidou said.

What happened in Flint seems to show a weakness of the rule, since state regulators and the EPA agreed there was some ambiguity about whether Flint should have been required to implement corrosion controls. Snyder eventually admitted that his government had made a terrible mistake, and multiple state officials resigned, as did the EPA's regional administrator.

Flint reconnected to its original water source in October, and officials said yesterday there had been progress in the process of re-coating the interior of the city's aging pipes.

"Longer term, though, I think everyone understands we'd like to see those pipes replaced," Snyder said.

DerekP Houston
01-28-2016, 07:50 PM
time to install a reverse osmosis unit at the house.

1911cherry
01-28-2016, 08:25 PM
I thought the problem was poison water from a polluted river, When did pipe come into the equation?

DCP
01-28-2016, 09:08 PM
I thought the problem was poison water from a polluted river, When did pipe come into the equation?

I think they found the lead pipes later and just threw it in. Lead pipes are all over the nation.
I had to laugh when son guy was holding lead pipes with gloves.

Hardcast416taylor
01-28-2016, 09:22 PM
The latest `bright idea` to come from our GEEK governors office about this problem is to let the new water from Detroit re-coat the inside of the Flint pipes by adding phosphrous into the water. Wonder what that will do to your inards? The latest `guesstamation` to the cost and time frame to replace the pipes throughout Flint Is about $400 Million and up to 10 years! YESSIR! Flint really saved a pile of money by going off Detroit water and sucking up that `clean` river water and not treating it nor testing iot. The GM truck plant went off Flint water shortly after Flint switched over due to the water proved to be corrosive by its contaminants!Robert

historicfirearms
01-28-2016, 09:49 PM
Maybe we can get some of these lead pipes. I've used them before and they make good boolits.

Rick Hodges
01-28-2016, 09:55 PM
The problem was/is the Flint River is acidic. They switched from Detroit water to local Flint river water to save money and treated it themselves. They did not treat the high acidity. Lead water pipes are the norm in most parts of the nation that have had water for more than 60 years or so. They are safe, as calcium and other chemicals form a coating on the lead. It is stable and doesn't leach into the water.....unless exposed to acid, which eats through the calcium and leaches lead into the system. Whew! (Local water main breaks also allow a small amount of lead and gunk to get into the system, hence the run water for a few hours til it runs clear and boil water alerts. The pipes quickly recoat themselves with the calcium in the water.)
The EPA knew that Flint was not treating the water for acid and it would be a problem but said nothing....hence the EPA director for the area resigned. The state people missed it and thought that the few high lead samples taken were from when the water system was changed over from Detroit water system and where local main breaks were repaired and they believed they clear up in a matter of hours. They were wrong. They compounded the problem by trying to cover their asses by attacking the Drs. who were sounding the alarm. I don't know what they were thinking. Maybe they were hoping the problem would just go away. The head of the State Dept of Environmental Quality resigned and more heads will roll.
Currently 93% of the tests are lead free....
So..... the problem isn't lead pipes....it is acid being run through them. People hear "lead pipes" and react like it was the Ebola virus. Lead pipes were the norm for water systems for over a hundred years without problems. The Detroit system that they switched back from is full of lead pipes and mains.

runfiverun
01-28-2016, 11:59 PM
nope it's a crisis.
I get a bunch of lead pipe to melt down every time they fix a water main here in town.
the city shops are right behind my house and someone keeps on dumping the pipe in the wrong place [like right over my fence]
one of these day's I will complain [when they stop]
I have to pound it flat to break all the calcium up that's inside the pipe but we have crazy hard water here and a lot of minerals besides calcium floating around in it.

they don't call this place soda springs for nothing, some of the springs nearby are actually soda water from the natural carbonation in them.
one area Is called sulpher springs and you know why [instantly] when you get there.

starmac
01-29-2016, 03:36 AM
From the sounds of it, the lead pipes are the land or house owners property, between the water meter and the house, so why is this a government problem. If It is really a major health concern for those folks and they belive it, a few sticks of pvc would seem cheap, if I thought my families heath was at stake.
Then again, a few years ogo, you could buy all the two story houses you wanted in flint for 500 bucks a pop on ebay.

Ballistics in Scotland
01-29-2016, 07:50 AM
Clearly there is a problem. But one thing that makes a difference is that water which has been sitting in lead pipes overnight is likely to be more dangerous than water which has only been in them a short time. Advice sometimes given is for householders with lead piping on their own premises, pending replacement, to run the water for a few minutes before filling the kettle in the morning. That would be an argument for lead pipes under the street (which once seemed like a responsible investment in longevity of the system) to be particularly dangerous.

This is guesswork, but a coating of calcium carbonate might well eliminate the danger. But only alkaline water will provide that. You would think some way could be developed of depositing an insoluble coating. But if alkaline or neutral water is to be supplied, it won't be calcium carbonate.

Freightman
01-29-2016, 02:08 PM
Lets see, The generation that put men on the moon grew up with leaded gasoline lead pipes and many other lead products, and they were brain damaged? come on it is an agenda they know it is something that they did so blame lead. This is MHO so beat me up but I don't trust the government or their scientist.

bearcove
01-29-2016, 02:21 PM
I worked the National Labs some as a pipefitter, and the training for lead is like it is gonna kill you. It is bad stuff in paint when you grind or weld on it. It is then a particulate you breathe. That will raise your lead levels. But as a solid it is no biggie, right.

They can't see the difference. I told the guy teaching this training that I cast it, and had about 3000 lbs in my garage, and my highest lead level was a 4. 20 is a worry point if I recall.

They would turn my house into a hazmat site if it was managed by the gov't.

I say we should remove all lead pipe from the public water systems nationwide and recycle it into boolets, since we are among the few who can handle this dangerous material, safely that is.

Ballistics in Scotland
01-29-2016, 02:43 PM
Lets see, The generation that put men on the moon grew up with leaded gasoline lead pipes and many other lead products, and they were brain damaged?.

I don't suppose even the politicians were. They grew up with polio, smallpox and a great many diseases that were far more dangerous than they are today. I was born in an age when thousands died due to smog every winter - not individually identifiable, but a statistic, like leukaemia around Chernobyl. Someday - even today to some extent - people will marvel that we grew up when death from AIDS could result from one act of informal togetherness. But that doesn't mean the people of the mid-21st century will have greater physical or mental health than we do. With every one of those things, doing all we can to remain among the healthy makes good sense.

Iowa Fox
01-29-2016, 08:13 PM
time to install a reverse osmosis unit at the house.

I think you're right!! We have our own well but the farm chemicals are polluting them in this state.

bearcove
01-29-2016, 08:18 PM
RO is good and easy with fresh water. Don't let the "water guys" tell you that its hard. An average guy with basic skills can build a water maker to RO salt water, fresh is MUCH easier.

Beagle333
01-29-2016, 08:19 PM
Pull them pipes out! I'll pay a buck a pound for it!!!

bearcove
01-29-2016, 08:38 PM
NO NO NO! be about 25 cents a lb

runfiverun
01-29-2016, 08:39 PM
after giving this a little thought.
the EPA's 'war on lead' would play right into flint's hands if they do this right.
their entire water delivery system could become a federal superfund sight and be replaced for them.
they just gotta play this whole crisis thing up enough to the media.
too bad the voting in ohio is coming up so soon, their 'plight' errr crisis would get a lot more traction with the media.

bearcove
01-29-2016, 09:08 PM
Yep based on the "GOV'T" standards it is toxic stuff, MUST docon this mess. How much will it cost, OH! just women and children being contaminated, maybe its not that bad....

.45Cole
01-29-2016, 10:44 PM
...I had to laugh when son guy was holding lead pipes with gloves.

"Mr Pansy refuses to touch the pipes without gloves on," is what the reporter said as they held the pipe together with leather gloves. Lead is for the most part absolutely insoluble in water with a pH of 7 and above. My guess is that the pH of the water in the river was below 7 and that dissolved the scale and then the lead. I would have thought that it would be somewhat easy to treat the pH level. Ever wonder where the oil that drips onto the road right next to the river goes? Most plants don't carbon filter water, and those hydrocarbons are minutely soluble in water.

OilyPablo
01-29-2016, 11:01 PM
Obama blamed this on Republicans.

But I'm all about getting the lead pipes out and in the smelting pot.

RogerDat
01-29-2016, 11:48 PM
The one thing I heard different than the other Mich. resident explanation is the federal EPA was trying to get the Mich. DEQ and Flint city officials to take anti-corrosion treatment steps but felt it lacked the legal authority to force them.

Also Detroit cancelled the contract to supply water when Flint decided they would participate in a future water authority that would draw water from lake Huron. This was going to take three years. Detroit Water Authority tried to get the state legislators to bar Flint from joining with other communities and creating a new water authority, it failed to convince the legislators that they should intervene to prevent a "water war". As soon as Flint declined the final offer from Detroit intended to convince Flint not move to the new authority Detroit exercised its one year end of service notification. Since it was going to take three years for the new pipes and system to come online so Flint had no choice but to come up with another source for two years.

This desire to form a water authority separate from Detroit had roots in saving money but they had no choice about changing to Flint river once Detroit cut them off in retaliation. No reason for Detroit to not make the money from supplying Flint for those final three years but I think they were pissed that Flint might end up in a position to become a water provider to the communities north of Detroit that were currently customers of Detroit Water Authority.

Michigan DEQ had no reason that I have ever heard to not do the corrosion prevention they kept arguing they did not need to even as evidence mounted that it was needed. It is almost like once they had not done it they had to insist there was no reason for needing to rather than admit they were mistaken and act to address the problem. Or maybe the city just did not want to spend the money. If issue had been addressed as soon as the Dr. at childrens hospital brought it to their attention the cost of switching back to Detroit Water would not have been required. The Flint water had a more corrosive PH and higher salinity and they just did not deal with it.

freebullet
01-30-2016, 01:29 AM
I love it when plumbers I know call with salvage lead pipes. It's mostly old waste lines and near pure.

starmac
01-30-2016, 05:03 AM
This may sound stupid, but is lead water pipes really widely used in that part of the country? I ask because I have been involved in several water line replacement jobs over the last 40 years, both mains and residential lines. I have seen lead sewer lines, but never ever seen a lead fresh water line, neither a main or even to just a house. I know lots of fittings (small ones) had lead in them, actually up to a year or so ago, but just have never seen an actual lead water line, and have pulled out some antique stuff.

Rick Hodges
01-30-2016, 07:19 AM
My understanding is that lead pipe was used in water systems up until the 50's. Lead solder was used until '85 and all brass is 8% lead (even modern fittings) and it can leach when exposed to acidic water.

jonp
01-30-2016, 07:27 AM
after giving this a little thought.
the EPA's 'war on lead' would play right into flint's hands if they do this right.
their entire water delivery system could become a federal superfund sight and be replaced for them.
they just gotta play this whole crisis thing up enough to the media.
too bad the voting in ohio is coming up so soon, their 'plight' errr crisis would get a lot more traction with the media.

I doubt your the first one to think of this, Run5, and that includes the Mayor and Gov. You know, Never let a crisis go to waste and all that

jonp
01-30-2016, 07:32 AM
The one thing I heard different than the other Mich. resident explanation is the federal EPA was trying to get the Mich. DEQ and Flint city officials to take anti-corrosion treatment steps but felt it lacked the legal authority to force them.

Also Detroit cancelled the contract to supply water when Flint decided they would participate in a future water authority that would draw water from lake Huron. This was going to take three years. Detroit Water Authority tried to get the state legislators to bar Flint from joining with other communities and creating a new water authority, it failed to convince the legislators that they should intervene to prevent a "water war". As soon as Flint declined the final offer from Detroit intended to convince Flint not move to the new authority Detroit exercised its one year end of service notification. Since it was going to take three years for the new pipes and system to come online so Flint had no choice but to come up with another source for two years.

This desire to form a water authority separate from Detroit had roots in saving money but they had no choice about changing to Flint river once Detroit cut them off in retaliation. No reason for Detroit to not make the money from supplying Flint for those final three years but I think they were pissed that Flint might end up in a position to become a water provider to the communities north of Detroit that were currently customers of Detroit Water Authority.

Michigan DEQ had no reason that I have ever heard to not do the corrosion prevention they kept arguing they did not need to even as evidence mounted that it was needed. It is almost like once they had not done it they had to insist there was no reason for needing to rather than admit they were mistaken and act to address the problem. Or maybe the city just did not want to spend the money. If issue had been addressed as soon as the Dr. at childrens hospital brought it to their attention the cost of switching back to Detroit Water would not have been required. The Flint water had a more corrosive PH and higher salinity and they just did not deal with it.

Thanks for the best, concise history of the problem I've read. It doesn't seem to me to be a simple job of just laying a pipe into a river and start pumping water. Wouldn't it have been easier for Flint to get an emergency injunction from a federal judge to stop Detroit from cutting off water to an entire city out of what amounts as spite? Public health was involved in this.

DLCTEX
02-02-2016, 06:01 PM
There are lead water meter loops in Wheeler, Texas. The head of the water dept. told me that there is no threat due to our water being alkaline and they only change them out when they become defective. I have been given them to make boolits.
I had suspected that acidic water was the problem with Flint's water. If a guy in Texas knows acidic water is a problem with lead pipes, why was this missed? Reporters are lazy if they haven't dug deeper to find the cause. There are few real reporters left.

RogerDat
02-02-2016, 07:19 PM
There are lead water meter loops in Wheeler, Texas. The head of the water dept. told me that there is no threat due to our water being alkaline and they only change them out when they become defective. I have been given them to make boolits.
I had suspected that acidic water was the problem with Flint's water. If a guy in Texas knows acidic water is a problem with lead pipes, why was this missed? Reporters are lazy if they haven't dug deeper to find the cause. There are few real reporters left.

That is the major issue. People in EPA, Children's Hospital director, researchers testing the water and even city workers were telling the state agency that the acidic water with higher salinity was a big problem, they (state DEQ) kept insisting it wasn't enough to worry about. To some extent Flint was under state control due to having financial problems. People knew but the state agency with ultimate authority/responsibility stuck their head in the sand or refused to acknowledge past mistakes. Almost like a little boy caught doing something wrong and keeps doubling down on lies trying to avoid admitting first mistake.

I will hope some extra lead flows into the recycling stream for our uses but I would put the probability as low. Disturbing the lines to replace them causes all other lines in the vicinity to experience vibration and jarring that cause the protective coating of sediment and crud to be knocked loose which takes more particles of lead into the water. Essentially have to replace entire run from first piece of lead pipe to the last piece connected to it. Even then some extra filtration would probably be required during the process. May see pipe getting replaced in some of the areas where the houses have extremely high readings for lead if they don't go down into safe levels. But typically as Texas poster pointed out lead pipe is replaced because that section of pipe is being replaced and it happens to be lead.

Geezer in NH
02-02-2016, 07:23 PM
Heck in the city in MA I worked on the FD we still had Wood water mains put in before the war of American Independence. Lead was the newer pipes! The water dept kept the water ph and added calcium or whatever that coated all the lead pipes so none would leach into the water.

That included city pipes and private owned pipes in buildings and the solder that was used in latter installations. But that was departments and politicians that paid attention unlike Flint,

.22-10-45
02-02-2016, 07:28 PM
I work in Flint, but do not live there. Both Grandparents lived in city, in those days, Flint was treating the river water..I hated the tast of the stuff compared to our wellwater..later the city switched over to Detroit water system (lake Huron water). What changed? Right after the city started using river water, I noticed when washing hands at work, there was so much chlorine fumes coming off water, I thought I was at a public pool! I understand they had to add so much to disinfect the polluted water. You see, there were and are countless abadoned homes in Flint.... Water lines left unused for decades with stagnant water sitting in them now had somehow been flushed into regular system. I don't buy the corrosive water from river speil..it wasn't corrosive in the 1950's & 60's when the city was a booming auto industrial power....( and the big auto plants were running their wast water directly into it)... I think it was the need to kill the bacteria using vast amounts of chlorine and other chemicals that started the leaching process.

10-x
02-03-2016, 10:58 AM
First real job I had was at the water department back in the 60's. Not sure, and really don't care what's in the ground there now but if the epa, tree huggers and other environmental ijdits would have seen them they would have fainted, or had a hissy fit. Used to be concrete and tin( lead) layered pipes all over(transite,IIRC) and big ones 16" dia. and just plain old lead pipes. Lots of cast iron pipes with lead wool tamped joints at each bell( special tool and skill to tamp a joint). For crying out loud, wish I could go back and just pick up the scrap pure lead we left in the hole(s) or threw in the trash. Oh well, that was then, we have all the new PVC stuff made from all kinds of chemicals, rather have lead.

quail4jake
02-03-2016, 12:43 PM
Look how well Gov't regulatory agencies work! This, of course, is good reason to expand government and add more regulation...The truth is that within the scope of reason Gov't regulation has an important function but I think we're many years post reason! I would like to get some of that pipe that now will be replaced but I think we should keep that discrete as a lead "witch hunt" is likely to begin from this. Could legislation be passed that prohibits having any lead in private homes? I'll bet a stick of Carnuba Red that some folks would lobby for that and the danger is additive forces of the reactionary uneducated crowd aligned with anti gun groups and self serving bureaucrats creating a firestorm of anti lead panic. The salvation from this sort of thing is often another disaster to garner the attention of the well meaning empty tin cans; a bad storm, an oil spill, large foodborn outbreak or some other cause around which they can rally, all join hands and sing "Koom by yaa". The steady voice of reason offering realistic solutions is frequently inaudible above the din of emotionally charged, entitled activists placing unrealistic demands on failing government services while making no effort to help themselves or others. That's why I like to fly below the radar. I'll buy all the lead pipe I can but no ne needs to know!

Bad Water Bill
02-03-2016, 05:33 PM
"Obama blamed this on Republicans."

So ask him which party has RULED both the City and County he lives in for OVER 100 years?

Guess what kind of pipe is leading into the building he owns in Chiraq?

There must be 99% of the homes in Crook County with lead piping leading into each and every home built since about 1900.


PS

There are inexpensive filtration systems available to eliminate these toxins.

Do your own homework and find one near you.

jonp
02-03-2016, 05:45 PM
Why is the water acidic with a higher salinity? Where does Detroit get it's water from and why is that not acidic. This whole thing seems like one whole bunch of hysteria to me. I even heard one genius screaming that "people are dieing from the water". Odd, must have missed that in the media and lead poisoning unless severe does not kill people.

gwpercle
02-03-2016, 07:39 PM
And we thought it was the peeling lead paint the children were eating....

News media loves an alarmist story...lets spread the hysteria !

RogerDat
02-03-2016, 08:20 PM
Why is the water acidic with a higher salinity? Where does Detroit get it's water from and why is that not acidic. This whole thing seems like one whole bunch of hysteria to me. I even heard one genius screaming that "people are dieing from the water". Odd, must have missed that in the media and lead poisoning unless severe does not kill people.

Detroit gets water from Detroit river which is essentially part of the great lakes. Flint river is an inland river flowing to the great lakes. Eventual source for Flint water supply is going to be Lake Huron which is one of the Great Lakes.

Further Detroit has a well established process to treat the PH of the water it treats so that it does not leech lead from pipes. Some Flint homes are literally getting water that qualifies as toxic waste. E.G 15 parts per billion is cause for remediation. There have been measurements of 5000 parts per billion, this is toxic waste and if you drink it will at the very least have a strong negative impact on your health even if not immediately fatal. Heck at that level taking a shower in it would be probably be more lead absorbed than years worth of casting. Many houses are testing in the 100's of parts per billion.

It was a monumental screw up. The state agency with authority and responsibility for the water quality screwed the pooch. Just as metal will rust quickly if you remove the paint protecting it so will lead leech rapidly if you run water through the pipe with a PH sufficient to remove the coating that seals the lead. The reason the state bears most of the blame is it was a state agency that screwed up, not the city council, not the mayor. The state DEQ (Dept. of Environmental Quality) further the city was being run by an emergency manager appointed by the state governor. When the city tried to go public the initial reaction was it was all "political" this contributed to the delay in fixing the problem.

Lead pipes not the problem. Flint river not the problem. Improperly treated Flint river water run through the lead pipes is the problem.

I don't know about "hysteria" but I'm pretty sure if your kids or grandkids were getting that water you might have at the least "grave concerns". You know the part that pisses me off is a department to monitor and help maintain water quality in the state seems to me a legitimate state agency, with a legitimate purpose. How in the heck did they manage to do such a bloody awful job of it? You know those posters, the ones that say "You had one job".... https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=1024&q=you+had+one+job&oq=you+had+one+job&gs_l=img.3..0l10.1199.3771.0.4670.15.9.0.6.6.0.151 .1055.1j7.8.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..1.14.1136.XcJmW WsfOok#tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACRrBFsSKkUtPIjjW4sEJqCtwA75xPW7DSSZB8bd BTz0htLW7WwDp6kSLYI86k9QFkyhDdeyamBTosSjVR_1z5B53J NCoSCdbiwQmoK3ADEehE7Hibiw-EKhIJvnE9bsNJJkERgBGluWPeTF8qEgnxt0FPPSG0tRG1FxQ1W gA_1SSoSCbtbAOnqRItgEVX8nv5S-QoyKhIJjzqT1AWTKEMR3oWXhPq3HYQqEgl17JqYFOixKBFFoCO srYZAxyoSCdVH_1PkHnck0EbqXgwVlfKBz&q=you%20had%20one%20job&hl=en&imgrc=L8Kc7V9svKFR4M%3A

Rick Hodges
02-04-2016, 08:10 AM
I am sure I would have grave concerns for the health of my family...but I certainly wouldn't be running around saying its it because I am black that this happened. The race baiting is is pure BS. Kildee saying if the city were are "different color" this would never have happened is beyond the pale. DEQ screwed the pooch and EPA acquiesced to their judgement. This needs to be fixed. But I would like to point out that Flint is just a little over 1/2 black, this problem cuts across race and political lines. How does the race baiting help get this fixed?
Turning this into an attack on emergency managers and the state trying to restore solvency to bankrupt city/school district finances is just crazy. Maybe the State should just let them go under. All of them. They run themselves into the ground with inefficient and corrupt leadership and then expect the rest of the state to bail them out.

Hickory
02-04-2016, 08:38 AM
I suspect that many people who consume lead in this manner will suffer from a type of neurological disorder that will cause them to vote democrat the rest of their lives.