Swabbing between shots

[54bore]

Ok guys I am a TOTAL newbie to black powder/and muzzleloaders so be easy on me! I have reloaded avidly for center fire for nearly 30 years but have never had any experience with muzzle loaders or black powder, ZIP NONE! What do you all use to swab between shots? I did a real dandy a couple weeks ago, I loaded up and headed to the pit to shoot my new to me new englander 54 cal, I ran some dry patches through my gun before leaving to make sure I got the oil out and it was dry, I got to the pit, loaded up my first mini (I casted from a new Lee improved mini ball mold, I went with the .540 mold, you can get it in .533 I believe as well?) anyway I put my powder charge in, 90 grains of goex 2f, went to seat the bullet and it went in extremely easy, little effort to any, almost fell down the barrel! I felt safe to shoot it so took aim from sandbags and let fly, it hit about an inch to the left of the bull at a ranged 80 yards, I was very pleased and hoped the others followed, I loaded it back up with powder and this time I noticed a definate difference in resistance seating the bullet, it wasn't difficult but wasn't near as easy as the first shot, it felt perfect to me, that shot was about 5 or 6 inches low, I loaded back up and that time time the bullet was tough to get down but i was able to get it seated, I knew I wasn't gonna be able to shoot anymore after that unless I could get a patch thru it, I fired that round and it hit right with my first one, I pushed a dry patch down the barrel back n forth a few times and it was a little tough to do but I got it, I loaded up again and it was about like the second time, wasn't bad to seat the bullet and felt good to me, I fired that one and it was a little high, I tried to run another bone dry patch down the barrel so I could shoot again, here's where things headed south in a hurry I was able to get the patch down but no way in Sam h$ll was I getting it back out! I had to head home with a stuck ramrod, I poured a little warm water down the barrel and got it freed up. Now I should have known better but the simple fact is I screwed up! I talked to another member on here and told me he used something called moose milk to swab between shots when shooting conicals, do you all do the same? What recipes for moose milk etc? Thank you guys, I look forward to any criticism lol, and help you might have!

[gnoahhh]

First question: what are you lubing those Minié's with? Crummy lube (or too little, or none at all) won't help keep the fouling soft. Cold dry winter air is a detriment that helps promote hard dry fouling too. I understand that wiping between shots may well be key to maximum accuracy, but you should be able to get off a few (or a bunch) of shots with decent accuracy before needing to swab. The build up of dense fouling is your culprit and a well and truly lubed Minié will go a long way toward alleviating that.

Cutting the powder charge back, and/or switching to FFFg will result in less fouling too (and may well shoot more accurately to boot- or not, who knows?).

[RhodeHunter]

Yeah what he said. And... I made moose milk, but it is a liquid, and I use it for wetting patches for patch and ball shooting, not with conicals. I also use it for wetting a patch as a cleaning patch, such as if you need to clean fouling out. I do a wet patch for a cleaning stroke, followed by a dry patch to dry the barrel out. You don't want to go too wet, or you will get liquid in the breech area and nipple area. You will need some type of non-liquid lube to lube your minie ball.

[RhodeHunter]

You can search the forum to find the exact recipe for moose milk, but the stuff I made is from water, water-soluble cutting oil, and murphy's wood-oil soap, I believe.

[ShooterAZ]

I have been using Windex, or T/C #13 bore cleaner, or Butches Bore Shine for Black Powder to swab between shots. All three work well, followed by dry patches of course.

[Mr Peabody]

Rubbing alcohol works good and it's cheap.

[Whiterabbit]

I might try rubbing alcohol, I use either ballistol water mix, or just plain old spit. Spit always works. And periodically a really wet patch followed by a dry one.

Most of the time it's a damp (but not "wet") patch to clear out the bore and the next powder charge goes right in there. (also I don't have enough spit to make all the patches wet.)

--------------

I've played with the cutting oil and bore butter for cleaning etc, but the fact is that simple works. And that is ballistol/water (pick any ratio you like, like 1:8-ish, doesn't take much ballistol), or plain jane spit.

[54bore]

First question: what are you lubing those Minié's with? Crummy lube (or too little, or none at all) won't help keep the fouling soft. Cold dry winter air is a detriment that helps promote hard dry fouling too. I understand that wiping between shots may well be key to maximum accuracy, but you should be able to get off a few (or a bunch) of shots with decent accuracy before needing to swab. The build up of dense fouling is your culprit and a well and truly lubed Minié will go a long way toward alleviating that.

Cutting the powder charge back, and/or switching to FFFg will result in less fouling too (and may well shoot more accurately to boot- or not, who knows?).

I was lubing the minies with bore butter, just smearing it on with my fingers. It was definately cold out, 12-15 degrees that morning.

[mooman76]

Swabbing with a dry patch is asking to get the ramrod stuck. There are many things you can use. Windex, alcohol, spit and some get a gallon of windshield wiper cleaner. You don't want the patch real wet just damp. Also the cleaning jag and patch should not fit tight. Tight will push the fouling down the bore and cause misfires. If the patch fits so it slides easy, when you pull it back up, it will bunch up some and pull the fouling out instead of pushing in. I have found BB isn't the greatest lube. It works ok but I find accuracy drops off quick without swabbing after.

[fastdadio]

I take a pump spray bottle filled with basic blue windsheild washer solvent in it to the range. Shoot all day swabbing after every two or three shots. I have also added a pint of denatured alcohol to the gallon of solvent to make it evaporate faster and that works well also. Lube my minnes with TC bore butter. Works great.

[Whiterabbit]

if your patch fits loose, I suggest you use BIG patches, because a loose regular sized patch will slip off the jag then you get to go pull it.

[DW475]

I use the T/C Natural Lube on the minis in my 54s and found after several years of use I can extend my shooting sessions before having to swab the barrel. Seems to season the barrel reduce the fowling like claimed so I've stuck with it since the 80s. I've been on several hunts in sub zero temps and it's stood up. Lots of stuff out there that will work, just have to decide which works best for you.

[54bore]

I have the little twisted hook thing that fishes out a patch if one comes off in the barrel, my next trip to the sand pit will consist of a small truck load of gear!

[54bore]

When I got home that day and got the ramrod unstuck I sat down and watched a YouTube video from idahoron on cleaning a traditional muzzleloader, I followed him step by step, it's an easy an effective way to clean the barrel! He just uses dish soap and warm (not hot) water, when it's good and clean, he dries everything out real good and then uses Rem oil to coat the bore, I really enjoyed his video, Ron has a really good YouTube channel! Go check it out

[OverMax]

If your shooting in the extreme cold. (32 or less degrees) One thing you don't need is a barrel cleaner high in water content which moose milk is.
Yup. Major differences seen when shooting & reloading in cold weather verses the warm. I speak with experience sir as I reside in one of the coldest States in the lower 48. >Minnesota.
I would isuggest. If it becomes necessary too swab your barrel every-so-often in the cold. A bronze brush dipped in undiluted Ballistol would be my suggestion. Then dry patch the barrel so to help pick up any oily Ballistol residue before its charging/loading.

As far as lubing bullets in the cold. Most patch & bullet lubes have a wax of some sort used in there formula. Including those home made. Cold waxy Lubes are simply less efficient at softening fouling and difficult to use due to their stiffing hardness.

Trappers Mink Oil Tallow sold by Track of the Wolf was designed as a patch & bullet lubricant especially for cold weather use.
Keep in mind Maxi & Mini balls both require there grease groves to be filled with a proper lubricant dialed in for the weather conditions their intended to be use in.
Some fellows use a push~pull tool that properly fills up the grease groves of a B/P projectile. In & out of the field. I use such a tool myself all year long. Just by changing its lube to match the weather conditions I'm shooting in. Tool works great. No mess. No fuss. Projectile fly straight & true. Powder fouling is soft and easy to either remove or push another bullet past the soften fouling to the bullet bottoming out. Hell I'm tickled about that happening especially in -10 or 15 Below air temp..

Tip: >Leager Mark< your ram rod.

[54bore]

OverMax, I bought a new in the package old stock TC pre luber to lube my maxi's with, it's designed for the TC bore butter tube to screw in to, I have read that they work good but can break if you put to much pressure on them, (trying to use in cold weather) I plan on lubing my bullets at home before going out to target shoot/hunt

[rfd]

it ain't rocket science. lotsa different answers and most will get the job done.

i use a 1:10 (or so) mix of ballistol:water for patch fouling control between either muzzleloading or bpcr shots. water or saliva is all that's needed, but it's some measure of protection to have some water soluble oil present.

some prefer moose milk ...
1 part ballistol (or any water soluble oil)
1 part lestoil or pinesol
2 parts hydrogen peroxide
20 parts tap water

[gnoahhh]

It was definitely cold out, 12-15 degrees that morning.

I think therein lies your problem. Frigid temps like that will harden bore fouling quickly, and as stated will play Billy Hell with water based scrubbing solutions. Wait 'til the weather warms up and try it again, and report back.

[OverMax]

I plan on lubing my bullets at home before going out to target shoot/hunt Good idea. But~~ as I said prior. Cold stiff lube looses allot of its ability to soften powder fouling because it take more time for it to fully liquefy. Do to such a stiffened physical condition. Seldom will a hardened lube coat its barrels bore from breech to muzzle. Thus the need for a bullet lube like Trappers Mink Oil Tallow lubricant. Soft & greasy feeling even in extremely cold temps. Naturally such lube would fully liquefy in less time and with less heat. Unlike T/C Bore Butter or Ox Yoke Wonder Lube which undoubtedly turn hard as candle wax in the mild cold for me and many others. Good luck 54 bore.
P.script; > Don't forget to Leager Mark that Ram rod now.

[54bore]

Good idea. But~~ as I said prior. Cold stiff lube looses allot of its ability to soften powder fouling because it take more time for it to fully liquefy. Do to such a stiffened physical condition. Seldom will a hardened lube coat its barrels bore from breech to muzzle. Thus the need for a bullet lube like Trappers Mink Oil Tallow lubricant. Soft & greasy feeling even in extremely cold temps. Naturally such lube would fully liquefy in less time and with less heat. Unlike T/C Bore Butter or Ox Yoke Wonder Lube which undoubtedly turn hard as candle wax in the mild cold for me and many others. Good luck 54 bore.
P.script; > Don't forget to Leager Mark that Ram rod now.

OverMax, I will definately order up some of that Trappers mink oil tallow lube from track of the wolf, sounds like some really good stuff! I need a few other supplies from there as well so will add this to the list! I like to shoot in the winter time and it's usually cold here in north Idaho. Thank you

[OverMax]

I will definately order up some of that Trappers mink oil tallow lube from track of the wolf, Thank you Your welcome sir.
You'll like Track for ordering stuff you need. Been there many times. As its a 20 minute ride away for me.
As read prior 54bore. I know you already have a Lee mini conical mold. Having a 1-48 twist is the usual for T/C New Englander's. Which shoots everything available that can be push down its barrel reasonably well in accuracy. But nothing exceptional. If you like to shoot distance. Your rifles mediocre twist rate is better suited to bullet use than conical /mini's.
For your consideration: Check out Lee's REAL maxi bullet line up. REALS when shot out of a T/C 54 deliver lots of game stopping wallop along with very good grouping accuracy to boot.

[Skypilot39b]

Is there any reason to use something other than the Trappers mink oil tallow for warmer shooting? I it seems like a good natural product that will accomplish the mission over a wide variety of temps. I too am stupid new at black powder, shot some with my dad as a kid but am just now getting back into it some 40 years later.

[54bore]

Your welcome sir.
You'll like Track for ordering stuff you need. Been there many times. As its a 20 minute ride away for me.
As read prior 54bore. I know you already have a Lee mini conical mold. Having a 1-48 twist is the usual for T/C New Englander's. Which shoots everything available that can be push down its barrel reasonably well in accuracy. But nothing exceptional. If you like to shoot distance. Your rifles mediocre twist rate is better suited to bullet use than conical /mini's.
For your consideration: Check out Lee's REAL maxi bullet line up. REALS when shot out of a T/C 54 deliver lots of game stopping wallop along with very good grouping accuracy to boot.

I recently bought a brand new Lee REAL mold, it's the bigger of the 2, Mine is the 380 grain mold, I've casted a few and they look great! I also have 2 different TC maxi ball molds, And as of this morning I now have 2 TC maxi Hunter molds as well, I bought the Lee mini just because, no specific reason or plans with it, just wanted to play around with it.

[54bore]

I live within 20-30 minutes of buffalo arms, and about an hour from October country, I recently made a visit to buffalo arms and bought a Ted cash capper and a pack of 100 pre lubed ox yoke original wonder wads for over the powder, I will get out soon when it quits snowing and do some more testing.

[mooman76]

Is there any reason to use something other than the Trappers mink oil tallow for warmer shooting? I it seems like a good natural product that will accomplish the mission over a wide variety of temps. I too am stupid new at black powder, shot some with my dad as a kid but am just now getting back into it some 40 years later.

Everyone has his own idea of what works best or best for them. There is almost as many different lubes people use out there as people using them. I prefer good old fashion spit lube myself. I never forget it, cheap to produce and works great for me.

[gnoahhh]

Everyone has his own idea of what works best or best for them. There is almost as many different lubes people use out there as people using them. I prefer good old fashion spit lube myself. I never forget it, cheap to produce and works great for me.

Ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!