Is it easier to load cast with a longer neck?

[mortre]

First off, I have no where near the experience with cast bullets as most on the board. My book knowledge on the subject has me leaning towards the long neck being my best bet, but I want some experience to back up my decision before I drop the money.

I'm thinking of buying either a 9.3x74R or 9.3x62 Ruger No. 1. I don't get to fiddle with loads as often as I would like, so nailing a good load down quickly is more important to me than the difference in price of brass and dies and such. The cartridges are ballistically identical, and I have little to no interest in jacketed bullets for this rifle. The 9.3x62 has very little taper, 17.5 degree shoulder and short .306" neck. The 9.3x74 has a heavy taper, 5.5 degree shoulder and a .520" neck. Would load development most likely be easier in one versus the other?

[Scharfschuetze]

I personally like a long neck such as a 30/30, 30/40 or 30/06. That's so I can cover the lube grooves in my boolits with the neck and I also think that I can control boolit runout better and it's easier to keep a gas check and lube within the neck and out of the powder chamber. The longer neck should support the boolit better when the rifle's action is operated briskly and prevent any induced runout from that. I certainly would opt for the longer necked case if all else was the same.

Now, on the other hand, I get great accuracy with cases with short necks too. I've had no issues with getting accuracy from the 308 Winchester, 7.5 Swiss or the 7.65 Mauser. Yes, the upper lube grooves are generally unprotected by the neck, but with care that's really not an issue if just going to the range or storing the rounds in a dust/dirt proof container if hunting.

Here's the 7.65 Mauser and 7.5 Swiss rifles with 10 shot groups. Both cases have very short necks, but seem to shoot right up there with long necked rounds.

[vzerone]

What Scharfschuetze said. That doesn't mean that a short neck cartridge won't shoot as good. A long neck is also said to lessen throat erosion.

[mortre]

I'm glad I asked, I was under the impression that longer necks made things easier. If neck length doesn't make things easier or harder, it looks like 9.3x62 brass and dies are about half the price and I already have the right shell holder.

[MT Gianni]

While a long neck may not make the loading process easier I believe it add to the stability of the round, probably reducing bullet run out. It is easier to keep lube grooves and checks in the neck as well.

[mortre]

While a long neck may not make the loading process easier I believe it add to the stability of the round, probably reducing bullet run out. It is easier to keep lube grooves and checks in the neck as well.
When I say 'easier", I'm not refer to the process of assembling a round. I'm referring to the number of attempts it takes to find a combination of components that doesn't lead and maintains decent size groups while running fast enough for hunting. Say 1600 to 1800 fps.

I realize every rifle is different and there are no guarantee's. But you can usually stack the odds in your favor. I know the good people on this site recommended a 30-30 for my first cast bullet rifle attempted, and I was quite pleased that my first attempt with was quite fun and successful.

[vzerone]

When I say 'easier", I'm not refer to the process of assembling a round. I'm referring to the number of attempts it takes to find a combination of components that doesn't lead and maintains decent size groups while running fast enough for hunting. Say 1600 to 1800 fps.

I realize every rifle is different and there are no guarantee's. But you can usually stack the odds in your favor. I know the good people on this site recommended a 30-30 for my first cast bullet rifle attempted, and I was quite pleased that my first attempt with was quite fun and successful.

morte...if you had good success with the 30-30 and liked it, you'll love the 30-40 Krag. Yes it's harder to come by a rifle in this caliber cheap, but they are great cast shooters.

You'll find the medium capacity cartridges are easier to get good results with. One of the reasons is take the 30-06 cartridge. Great cast cartridge, but in the lower velocity ranges such as 1800 to 2000 fps it's near impossible to find a suitable powder that fills the case up. None of us like powder that only fills about 1/2 or more of the case and then having to use a filler because the powder is either position sensitive or so minute that it's not up against the primer flash hole. Another one with a longer neck is the 7x57 and it's a good cast shooter too. There are more medium capacity cases with shorter necks then longer necked cases. Don't let that turn you off.

[Wayne Smith]

Not so much 'easier' but more versitile. That is, you have a larger selection of molds with a longer neck. This is because it is problematic to have the base of the boolit below the neck shoulder junction. Thus the longer the neck the longer the boolit one can use.

[nagantguy]

I prefer long necks think 30-30 and 06, for the reasons many above whom are far smarter and more experienced than me, my love affair with the nagant went to a whole new level when I started pouring my own......one thing that might be the great equalizer as far as protecting lube grooves is powder coating. Without a doubt it's the single greatest thing I've learned here especially for rifle caliber cast boolits, doesn't fail, doesn't attract dirt dust or fuzz, won't turn gummy in heat, brittle in cold, won't effect powder, can be used as a way to get a few extra thousandths in diameter for old, worn or unusual bore sizes. The thing I like best is one lube for everything, rifle ,pistol muzzle loader plinker to full house loads and I love that I can color code, blue for training rounds, (idpa ) green for heavy .38, red for 357, black for 30 cal Hunting loads, clear for mouse fart milsurp loads...... a bag of powder from smoke4230 here on this board and a toaster oven and your in business. It's already a long post sorry, but in my testing on pc over the last 3 or 4 years, shooting all above mentioned types of loads in conditions ranging from -25° to 90+° at 100% humidity no discernable point of impact shifts no change in the pc feel or texture and no, zero, none as far as leading goes. Others milage may vary but for me it has been the greatest tool in my arsenal.

[Ricochet]

Theory aside, in a #1 or other single shot I'd go with the 9.3X74R just because it's such a cool old cartridge. Long tapered rimmed cases just look right in a single shot, anyway.

I load long boolits in bottleneck cases with gas checks and lube grooves down in the powder quite often. I have not encountered any problems that I could attribute to that, but I'd prefer to keep it in the neck.

[nagantguy]

Also mortre, I'm very intrigued by your caliber selections. Neither is what one would call common but both suited well for cast and most big game hunting.

[mortre]

My current hunting rifle is a full stocked tang safety Ruger M77 in 7x57mm Mauser. I used to own a No 1 Sporter in 30-06, I liked it well enough, but something about being scoped just ruined the lines of the rifle to my eye. I want to replace it with another that slings a larger, slower, cast bullet with open sights.

When I noticed the local Cabelas had a No. 1 in 9.3x62 that I could cover the cost of with my Cabelas Bucks my mind went into over drive. I did a little research on the caliber (which is where I came across the 9.3x74r) and I thought it would make a nice set with my 7x57. I found that NOE had some 9.3 moulds in stock and started to get excited. Went to look for load data and noticed that the neck on the case was so short that the gas check would be well below the shoulder, which got me worried. Which caused this post.

Maybe that was just a sign to stop the impending impulse buy, and wait for a similar No 1 in 9.3x74R, or another caliber entirely. I'm not sure at this time, but I'm agonizing over going back and buying it or just wait and think it through more before buying something I regret. Come the end of the day, I'd like the No 1 I eventually buy to serve as an open sighted thick woods rifle of large enough caliber for the Roosevelt Elk native to my area.

[Wayne Smith]

In a single shot your real issue is the length of the throat. I'd take a good look at that 9.3x62 with a cartridge and a loosely loaded boolit and see how long the throat is if this is possible. You may get away with it since you don't have to worry about magazine length.

If the gun's throat allows it I'd learn to powder coat and not worry about exposed lube.

[JSnover]

A long neck is also said to lessen throat erosion.
It may.
As a cartridge 'grows' after numerous firings the case mouth gets closer to the end of the chamber, leaving less of a gap between the case and the bore. Some will lengthen to the point that they won't chamber and need to be trimmed back. As this happens, longer necks may just give you more to work with.
The few SAAMI chamber drawings I've seen allow about .010" in front of the case mouth. If your brass comes near to closing this gap, it should reduce erosion regardless of neck length. In a perfect world your cartridge would headspace on the mouth but this can create problems if each case isn't exactly the right length, they get banged up while feeding, they're fired in other chambers, etc.
I prefer a longer neck but I don't have any science to back it up.

[Mk42gunner]

Since you already have a 9.3x62 spotted that makes the choice a lot easier.

Over the years there have been a lot of members casting for the 9.3xwhatever rounds, a search should bring up plenty of threads.

I was going to say the x74R would probably work better in a typical single or double rifle, while the x62 would be better in a bolt action; but I have never had any problems with rimless cases in a Ruger No.1.

Please keep us posted,

Robert

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I have little trouble developing accurate loads in the .300 Savage in my 99's. Under 2" groups at 100 yards shooting 10 shots, much better when I reduce shot count to five or three, so neck length MIGHT make a difference, but not as much as bullet diameter fitting the throat, cartridge straightness, other accuracy stuff. The .308 is considered more accurate than than '06 based on military testing.

[dondiego]

If you could teach a giraffe to load cast boolits we could find the true answer.

[mortre]

If you could teach a giraffe to load cast boolits we could find the true answer.
Now that's funny.

I swung by today to take another look. Of the dozen or so they had(Number 1's), only two had decent looking wood in the stocks. One was the 9.3x62, the other was in 450/400 Nitro Express and had slightly better wood. But neither had nice enough wood to make me spring today, and I'm not to familiar with the 450/400. I'm think I'm going to continue to let things set before I do anything.

[mortre]

Well, here is my update. I walked out of Cabela's this weekend with the No. 1 in 450/400 Nitro Express and a pound of AA-5744. I also ordered a 41 caliber trimmer pilot, 20 Hornady brass and a recoil shield/harness. All for under $1,100 after tax.

I still need a shell holder, dies and a mould, none of which Cabela's carries. But since I covered everything there with my point's I'm not going to complain about the $150 set of dies, and $25 shell holder on my shopping list.