Sizing balls for "new to me" rifle??

[carolina sorillo]

All right first off, I know it'd be easier to just do it right and buy the right sized components from the start. However, I'd really like to try and keep the clutter down in the reloading room and money in my pocket, so I wanna try to use what I've got.

I just bought a used Pedersoli Kentucky rifle in .45 cal. I know they need a .440-.445" ball. I have a Lee .454" mold that drops .460" with my alloy(3ww:1pure). How hard would it be to run these balls through a .439" sizer? I also have a .452" sizer on hand that I could run'em through first, which should help.


Thanks,
C.S.

[docone31]

Should work. You can adjust patch thickness also.

[pietro]

.

I would suggest that it would be problematic to align the sized edges of the ball(s) with the bore, so the rifle would be both easily-loaded and accurate.

I would just suck it up & buy the proper sized mold - most gunshow's usually have a vendor that specializes in used & new boolit casting implements.



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[bubba.50]

go to the top of the site, click on the little Midsouth Shooters Supply logo & buy the correct Lee mould for yer gun for 18 bucks.

[johnson1942]

guess what, i was just talking to a member of cast boolits about that very thing.i have many many diff resizers and the joy of a resizer is you dont have to have a lot of molds, just resizers. i resize 50 cal balls to .451 for my ruger old army. shoots hole in holes. i resize .38 roundballs to .357 my 1871 open top 38 special and man with no name 38 special. both shoot holes in holes. their is no reason you cant line up a resized round ball carefully and make it shoot better in you patched rifle. in fact it would probably shoot better than a round round ball. what i like about resizeing bullets is they all come out the perfect same in diam when you resize them. cant say that for cast and if some one here does, please teach us all how to cast perfect diam bullets. again resizeing keeps the cost of molds down and gives a perfect diam. every time. if the top of your lands diam is .450 try to get close to .445 in the resized ball. a little under or over wont hurt. also you may want to get some 45/70 60 thousands thick fiber wads and not use a patch with a .460 ball. ive done that and just put them down on top of a wad and they dont lead and shoot very very accurate. curator who post here said he heard of that in days gone by and it still works. i even used 60 or 70 grains of powder and they never stripped out and never leaded with that wad to gas seal behind them. i have a very small ribber hammer and just put the was inside the bore and then the ball on the muzzle and tap ontop of the starter untill the ball is in a little. once engraved it goes down even easier than a patched ball. a shooter could even try 30 to one lead for a bare ball. have fun.

[carolina sorillo]

guess what, i was just talking to a member of cast boolits about that very thing.i have many many diff resizers and the joy of a resizer is you dont have to have a lot of molds, just resizers. i resize 50 cal balls to .451 for my ruger old army. shoots hole in holes. i resize .38 roundballs to .357 my 1871 open top 38 special and man with no name 38 special. both shoot holes in holes. their is no reason you cant line up a resized round ball carefully and make it shoot better in you patched rifle. in fact it would probably shoot better than a round round ball. what i like about resizeing bullets is they all come out the perfect same in diam when you resize them. cant say that for cast and if some one here does, please teach us all how to cast perfect diam bullets. again resizeing keeps the cost of molds down and gives a perfect diam. every time. if the top of your lands diam is .450 try to get close to .445 in the resized ball. a little under or over wont hurt. also you may want to get some 45/70 60 thousands thick fiber wads and not use a patch with a .460 ball. ive done that and just put them down on top of a wad and they dont lead and shoot very very accurate. curator who post here said he heard of that in days gone by and it still works. i even used 60 or 70 grains of powder and they never stripped out and never leaded with that wad to gas seal behind them. i have a very small ribber hammer and just put the was inside the bore and then the ball on the muzzle and tap ontop of the starter untill the ball is in a little. once engraved it goes down even easier than a patched ball. a shooter could even try 30 to one lead for a bare ball. have fun.

I knew there had to be somebody else that had tried this!! Thanks for the great info! That's exactly what I was hoping for, experience!!
I have a large sheet of 1/8" felt that I've used or wads in my SASS BP cartridges. I may try it under a rb sized to .452" and see what happens. I figured a "naked" ball would lead the barrel and strip the rifling with the velocities rb's achieve. I guess the slooow twist rates probably help too, not smokeless guns with 1in20 or faster.

Thanks again,
C.S.

[MarkP]

I sized nearly pure Pb balls to 0.575 from 0.600" for a 20 ga. It worked fine, the balls looked like an ellipsoid when finished. Also sized 00 buck for use in my 32 cal squirrel rifle 0.330" to .309". A cap & ball revolver is pretty similar, I have shot 00 buck in a .31 cal revolver just leaves a little ring of lead after seating as some shears as it sizes it down.

[curator]

You might try "bare-ball" loads using your .460 round ball with either a felt or card wad over the powder charge. Your alloy is a bit hard for PRB but would work fine bare-balling. Most .45 caliber round ball barrels are right around .460- .464 groove diameter. Getting the ball started is the difficult part. My T/C Seneca (.450 land/.460 groove) shoots .460 bare round balls with near-precision accuracy out to 50 yards. I use 2 .475 hard felt wads over 65 grains of FFFg black powder. It takes a hard "whack" to get the ball to seat in the rifling at the muzzle, but it goes down easy after that. I do wipe the bore after each shot with a damp patch. Beats PRB loads by half (2" 5-shot groups instead of 4" 5-shot groups with PRB at 50 yards) Just for the heck of it, google "bare ball loads in muzzle-loaders" just to read about others' experiences.

[johnson1942]

again resizers are 31 dollars each and a good mold is much more. its good to have a lot of resizers.

[carolina sorillo]

Thanks for all the replies y'all!!
I just sent the $$ off today when it arrives I'll check out the groove diameter and go from there. Right now I'm seriously leaning toward "bare balling" with it, if it mic's right, I have plenty of wad material on hand.

Thanks again, I'll keep y'all posted,
C.S.

[gnoahhh]

Personally I would buy a proper sized mold and call it a day. I too can see the potential for error when inserting a sized ball precisely in the bore. Sooner or later you'll get one seated off kilter. $20 for a Lee mold to me is money well spent to avoid yet another step in the process anyway.

[Whiterabbit]

yep, buy right mold.

HOWEVER

a roundball doesn't have much bearing surface. And you are casting from very soft lead (RIGHT???). So, sizing .460 to .439? No problem. No problem at all. Even if the ball is too big for the die leade, it'll shave a ring and off you go.

If I were "playing this game", I would not consider shooting unpatched. I mean, go for it if you want, but my expectations would be low, and I would not be "trying for accuracy" or to "find a good recipe" doing it.

It would be pretty simple for me. Size down, load patched, and see if there was merit. go from there. I wouldn't imagine you'll get too far, but it makes for a couple nice days at the range.

--------------

But the real answer is once you have a proper ball mold, use it.

[carolina sorillo]

New question...

I have sized a few of the .460" balls through a .439" die and they come out .440". It takes a good bit of pressure to push the balls through the die and most shave a small ring off. All this excessive pressure caused a flat spot(expected that) on one side of the ball as well as a distinctive "driving band".
My question now is: Do I load them with the "flat" as a bullet base or as a meplat? Or, do I just need to test them to see what the rifle says?!

C.S.

[rfd]

honestly, to save literally a few bucks, think about what yer doing. i see no long term value in taking a .460 ball and via sizing make it into what is now essentially a conical that can't be properly patched, and an inferior conical at that. a lee .440 ball mold is like $25. i'd wanna use pure lead, not an alloy. ymmv.

[sharps4590]

That sounds like a dollar waitin' on a dime.

[Geezer in NH]

STOP!!!! Find a book on ML. Then decide!

Get a ball that fits screw the stupid idea of sizing a RB for patch rifles.

Sorry but 40 years of ML competition this has to be the stupidest idea I have ever seen.

I won many National matches and trust me this will not come out well with a PRB

The correct size is easily affordable, find someone at you range that actually shoots a ML not folks from the net.

[carolina sorillo]

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. As I stated in my opening post, I know the "best" thing to do is buy the right mold and use the right alloy/ball/patch combination. As I also tried to make clear I'd like to keep things simplified and make do with what I have. Not that I don't appreciate you trying to steer me right. I do, I also understand that what I'm attempting to do may or may not work, and I'm fine with that too. Either way I'll report back and let you know how it goes.

That being said, the Pedersoli .45 caliber percussion Kentucky rifle arrived today and I must say, it is a real beauty and handles nicely too!! I have always loved the look of the long guns but never had one other than a .32 Crockett I once had which was VERRRY accurate(I did use the correct .310" balls in it:wink:). I always assumed these were really heavy just because of the full stock and 35" barrel. It is surprisingly light and very well balanced. The first thing I did was run a paper towel "patch" down the bore dampened with olive oil followed by a couple dry ones to absorb any excess. Next I set a "naked .460" rb on the muzzle to see if it could be used without sizing. It almost went in so it probably can be(not sure if I'm going to try that or not). Next I tried one that had been sized to .440". It left plenty of room for a patch and I don't think it will be a problem making sure it's aligned with the bore either. Just for the heck of it I also tried one of the 200gr Lee rnfp's that I use in my .45 acp and Schofield handloads. Since I used to shoot in the BP categories in SASS I used, and still use, SPG on all my bullets just in case I get the urge again. That bullet can be started easily with just thumb pressure.

So, l have some 200gr bullets to test over a .45 felt wad, some sized rb's with .010" and .015" oiled patches and some "naked" rb's in case I don't find a happy place with any of the others. I also have some 255gr bullets from a Lee mold but I figured with the 1:48 twist I better stick with the shortest options I have.

Thanks again,
C.S.

[johnson1942]

ok, this is shareing info not blasting each other. of late it is blasting each other. come to my place out here in the boon docks and lets you and i go nose to nose. i resize all the time for lots of blackpowder guns and when i say they shoot holes in holes thats what they do, shoot holes in holes. the rifle or handgun is a dumb machine and if you do the loading with in the science of the bore size and twist it will do its job. great for you to have won compitions but i bet they were at ranges where the wideopen west country shooters would laugh their behinds off at. ill put it this way. i could put a bullet sideways down a barrel and shoot a deer close up or put it on paper. lets talk about real shooting. all this noise when someone just asked if bullets can be resized and shoot. yes they can but you and some others may be not of the skill or mind to load them properly. ive never heard such a noise and dont ever ever call the rest of us shooters unskilled. 170 yard doe, one shot with a roundball. several at 125 yards as some antelope. the very point hit where i wanted the balllllll to hit not a cast bullet, but a ballll.again this is a information web site, grow up, listen you might even learn something, i, have. picket bullets where very hard to put down the barrel properly until one got skilled at it, and then they really did shoot holes in holes. a slightly oblong roundball would be no different that a picket bullet to put down the barrel.again---------- lets be polite and stop this slamming others and keep this a information and experience shareing site. and when you say you have won matches, lets say with what and the distance. it may mean something or then it may not mean anything at all. ok let the flock of naysayers go at it and let errr rip.