1943 FA 45 acp brass

[bigjake]

I don't remember where I got these but does FA mean "federal arms"? they're somewhat corroded esp on the inside. did they use corrosive primers back then?

Does anyone collect WWII cases?

[Scharfschuetze]

That would be Frankford Arsenal.

Yes, most WWII era US ammo was primed with corrosive primers. I think the exception was M1 Carbine ammo, also known as M1 Ball.

[turtlezx]

frankfort arsonal yes corrosive

found 1 recently that had just been fired
still went bang

[Scharfschuetze]

I might add to my previous post that the priming mixture used was very stable for long shelf life, but part of the combustion residue was potassium chloride which, being hygroscopic, attacks the steel of the barrel by rusting it. If your cases are brass and not the often seen steel 45ACP cases, then they should be immune to the salt and the corrosion may be something else. Perhaps what you are seeing is verdigris?

I believe that Frankford Arsenal and all other US Arsenals last used corrosive priming in 1953 or so.

[Char-Gar]

I have fired lots of FA WWII ammo and it all works fine. It should be noted that these cases are no reloadable in that they used an odd ball size primer, smaller than a LP but larger than a SP.

1911s fired with corrosive primed ammo are easy to clean. I remove the barrel, place it in a pan of soapy water on the stove top and bring to a good boil. Remove the barrel with tongs and run hot tap water through the barrel to remove the soapy water. The barrel will be hot enough to dry itself. When cool, just clean as usual.

[Outpost75]

The old FA cases used a .206" diameter primer. If you have a great deal of this brass and WANT to use it, you can use a large size primer pocket reamer and easily correct the primer pocket size to accept modern large pistol primers. I have done this with several thousand old FA .45 ACP cases I got at a yard sale. I recommend first decapping them and then washing in water with Lemi-Shine and stainless steel media to remove any of the old chlorate primer residue and any corrosion so that you can perform a careful visual inspection.

I have found that the stuff reloads fine and lasts a long time for many reloads.

158868

[bigjake]

The reason I thought it could be corrosive was there is greenish corrosion down deep inside the cases. I've never seen this in any other brass.

[Big Boomer]

Some of this information posted above has me wondering. I have a # of FA '42 and RA '42 and '43, plus some WCC '42 pieces of brass that take regular large pistol primers just fine. This is brass I picked up at the range. Unless someone has gone to the trouble of enlarging the primer pockets (not me!) then none of my picked-up brass fits the description. Did things change by WW II when my brass was loaded? Big Boomer

[Outpost75]

It my me possible that the primer and primer pocket dimensions were changed during the war, but I have no drawings or specs to confirm that. I have reloaded some WW2-era .45 brass of WRA, Rem-UMC, EC and others which did not require reaming, but all wartime FA .45 brass I have took the. 206" primer and required reaming.

[alamogunr]

Several years ago I bought some .45ACP brass that was represented as "nickle plated match brass" w/inert primer". This brass did have the inert primers and was nickle plated. It didn't take long to find out that the primer was undersize and the brass was brittle. I managed to prime a few(luckily, none of the new primers went off) and load with a hardball. Several split during seating and most of the rest split when fired. All this brass now resides in my scrap bucket. The headstamp was FA 42 or 43.

[Scharfschuetze]

The reason I thought it could be corrosive was there is greenish corrosion down deep inside the cases. I've never seen this in any other brass.

Green crud on brass often means verdigris which is what brass does with age or some chemicals. Back in the day, a lot of police found their 38 Special brass developing verdigris (Latin for green or verde in Spanish) when held in their 12 round bullet loops on their gun belt. Often that leather was tanned in Mexico and the chemicals used really brought out the green. That is why most duty police ammo ended up getting nickel plated thinks I.

[Bigslug]

I believe that Frankford Arsenal and all other US Arsenals last used corrosive priming in 1953 or so.

Yep. I forget the twist of fate that made it so, but as I recall, M1 Carbine ammo was pretty much non-corrosive from day one. Don't know the why - only that it's a lot easier to find carbines with their original tubes than Garands as a result.

[Bullwolf]

Here's a few more, some 1943 45ACP steel cases.

Not from the Frankford Arsenal, but the Evansville Ordnance Plant.

E.C. Head Stamp, was from the Evansville Ordnance Plant .
E.C.S. is from the Evansville Ordnance Plant, Sunbeam Refrigeration Company.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67530&d=1366008636

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67531&d=1366008637

I've noticed if you don't clean up the corrosive primer residue inside the cases promptly after firing, they will rust inside soon after. I've reloaded them before, and a light coat of automotive wax helps keep the steel cases from rusting on the outside as well.

I'm a big fan of adding a cap full of auto wax to the media in a vibratory tumbler. It really helps to retard oxidation if you reload steel cases.


- Bullwolf

[Sekatoa]

Not an FA, but. REM UMC. This one my Dad had, and is almost a hundred years old. It is from 1917, with the cupronickel coating used at the time.


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160124/57ffba25a897303a98c0aa5ac2f7a4fa.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160124/4da4ec13ca700c3f1c611c87d46c0a46.jpg

[Outpost75]

Here some more old .45 ACPs

158955158956158957158958158959

[Dale53]

I have used, literally, THOUSANDS, of military .45 ACP brass. However, all of mine were from later lots of non-corrosive primers. I DID have to swage the primer pockets as they were crimped. However, that's just a one time thing and no problem. I actually prefer military brass for reloading as I have had excellent results compared to some commercial brass which comes up short (Remington, as an example).

FWIW
Dale53

[w5pv]

I use a 45 cal reamer to cut the swage ridge works fine on the brass that I have.

[Shiloh]

I always thought the rounded primers were interesting.

Shiloh

[Scharfschuetze]

During my LE career, while on the shooting team, I shot against a lot of various LE agency teams. At the time, the Bureau of Indian affairs chief of police of a large reservation near my city was an avid marksman and we often shared marksmanship and tactical training with them. They had a few Thompson M1s in their inventory and Chief often brought those out with M2A ammo cans full of GI 45 ammo just for fun. After blasting away with them, we divided up all the empty brass and got to keep it. I'm still using that brass in my 45s and as noted by Dale53, I prefer it to most any other brass. It was for the most part WCC brass made in the 60s.

I enjoy seeing photos of all the old 45 ACP ammo with headstamps that I didn't even know existed. Going the other way in time, the last issues of 45 ACP ammo that I had in the Army were usually headstamped TZZ. It was pretty good ammo but through our rack grade 1911A1 it's hard to say if it was better or worse than the old mainstream arsenal ammo. I used the 1911A1 with the TZZ ammo as late as a 2005 deployment in the GWOT.

[Big Boomer]

Scharfschuetze: Speaking of TZZ .45 brass, a brass dealer in the Fla. Keys said he was going out of business back in the early to mid-1990s and had an ad in Shotgun News. A bud and I responded to his ad and bought the remainder of his .45 ACP TZZ '90 plus all he had left of other mixed headstamp brass plus all the .38 Spl. and .357 Mag. brass he had. He made us a really great deal. My bud took all the mixed headstamp .45 brass and I took all the TZZ '90 brass. Deprimed, cleaned and removed the primer crimp on the several thousand I have and have used it ever since. Very nice brass. Have not had a problem with it, though I am using it less and less as I come by range brass that I pick up and process when I visit the range, being a brass scrounger by nature. Big Boomer

[bedbugbilly]

A number of years ago, I inherited some things from a local World War I veteran. He had been in the Veterinary Corps. during the war. Among the things was a cloth sack that had about forty rounds of WW I issue 45 ACP. It actually looked very good considering it was probably 80 years old at the time. At the time, I had a nice Colt 1911A1 that had been brought back by a Navy pilot after WWII. I loaded up some of the old WWI issue ammo in a magazine and gave it a try. Surprisingly, all but one round went off. What was left of the ammo, I gave to a guy I knew who had a kid that was starting a cartridge collection. I wish I had saved a couple but he was thrilled to death to get them so it all worked out fine. If I remember correctly, the head stamps were marked "17" for 1917. Knowing the primers were corrosive, the 45 got a extra good cleaning.

[Outpost75]

Here are some practice targets I shot with old .45 ACP ammo:

159044159045

[Scharfschuetze]

Knowing the primers were corrosive, the 45 got a extra good cleaning.

Years ago while I was with the 101st Airborne up in Thua Thien Province in I Corps, we decided to take some target practice out on the perimeter. I had a couple of magazines of 45 tracer ammo that I decided to use up. Those 45 tracers look like pumpkins flying through the air and were fun to shoot. I cleaned the 1911A1 (Remington Rand) well, but as we didn't have any RBC or other solvent, I just scrubbed the bore well with the old LSA and left a film of it in the bore. I had no idea that the ammo was corrosive, so I reassembled the 1911A1, put it in my holster and forgot about it. About a week later I gave it a pre op check and found that the barrel was so rusted that I couldn't make out the rifling. Sucked to be me, but as my primary weapon was an M60, I soldiered on and replaced the barrel once the supply sergeant could find a new one.

My DCM (Now the CMP) 1911A1 actually has a chrome lined barrel and would have precluded that little embarrassment.

[Ironnewt]

I came across a large number of .45 ACP brass marked "FA 42". I ended up scapping all of it. The primers were copper color and standard large pistol primers would not fit. The cases seemed to all have shallow primer pockets. Pain in the butt as I did not realize the issues with this brass until after it was in the case feeder of the Dillon 650 I was using. Live and learn.

[lightman]

I've got some FA cases from the 30's in m collection.

[ioon44]

Scharfschuetze: Speaking of TZZ .45 brass, a brass dealer in the Fla. Keys said he was going out of business back in the early to mid-1990s and had an ad in Shotgun News. A bud and I responded to his ad and bought the remainder of his .45 ACP TZZ '90 plus all he had left of other mixed headstamp brass plus all the .38 Spl. and .357 Mag. brass he had. He made us a really great deal. My bud took all the mixed headstamp .45 brass and I took all the TZZ '90 brass. Deprimed, cleaned and removed the primer crimp on the several thousand I have and have used it ever since. Very nice brass. Have not had a problem with it, though I am using it less and less as I come by range brass that I pick up and process when I visit the range, being a brass scrounger by nature. Big Boomer


The TZZ 90 brass is Israeli Mil Surplus made in 1990, and is really good brass for loading.

[elk hunter]

I don't know why Frankford Arsenal made 45 acp ammunition with the odd size primer but you do still find some around today. I have about 1000 of those special size primers, I think they were made in the 1930's, the packages are marked "100 primers NO 27 for cartridges cal .45 primer composition FA 70". Even though there is no reason to keep them I just can't bring myself to throw them away.