Mid-level .44 mag powder?

[GrantS]

Well since whatever problems I may have with leading may be the result from a relatively fast powder (AA#5), I am in search of a mid-level powder for my .44 magnum.

My goal is 1,100FPS (What I am currently getting now with 11.6 grains of AA#5) since it has good power and yet easy-shooting enough from a wood-stocked redhawk to make shooting pleasant for long periods.

The upper end magnum powders, 2400, 4227, H110 and AA#9 all run a bit faster than I want, and get dirty (or unsafe) if downloaded to the levels I want.

Likewise, the pop-load powders, bullseye, Unique,etc. don't quite go high enough, 900-950FPS or so.

What has anyone had good luck in that power range? By looking at load tables AA#7 looks promising, along with Bluedot and HS7, the latter two of which are almost as hard to find as 2400.

Any help would be appreciated :) I'm buying a few 1 pounders to try stuff out, but I've found a few loads I like and am planning on purchasing a few 8 pounders so I can sit back and get some savings, along with ease of not running out of powder.

[Maven]

Grant, I can easily achieve 1,100fps with either Unique or Blue Dot with either Lyman #429421 or the RCBS version of it in my SBH, but it has a 10.5" bbl. No signs of excess pressure with either powder, btw.

[Outpost75]

Side-by-Side comparisons fired same day with .44 Magnum “Medium Velocity” loads with Bullseye Powder
fired in two Vaqueros using the same .44 Magnum cylinder, 20" Marlin 1894S for comparison:

Ammunition all assembled in Remington New Factory Primed brass with Remington 2-1/2 primers.

Load Description_________Ruger 5-1/2"______Ruger 7-1/2"____Marlin 20”__Remarks

-----------------------------------Cyl.Gap 0.008"---------Cyl.Gap 0.008"------Solid barrel


43-230G 1:30Sn/Pb 7.2BE_____978, 18Sd__________1044, 21Sd_______1178, 7Sd___1.59” OAL crimped top groove

[nagantguy]

Outpost75 that is a very real apples to apples spot on piece of research there thank.you for sharing that, direct to the heart of the question!

[DougGuy]

I use 2400 and LilGun for slightly more than mid level but less than full magnum loads. Either of these powders is not as finicky when download as say W296/H110. The Lee C430-310-RF runs right at 1200fps with 17.0gr H2400, I could safely go to 16.0gr which would drop velocity to subsonic. However at 16.0gr H2400, velocity slows enough that there isn't enough spin on the big RF boolit and groups opened considerably.

You must also consider the boolit itself, heavier wide meplat boolits may not gather enough spin from a 1:20 twist barrel to stabilize below 1150 ~ 1200 fps. It's very likely that a Keith type LSWC would be more accurate at 1000fps.

I personally will not use Unique for hot loads in a large straight walled case because it can be spiky and unpredictable even though there are published loads that exceed 10.0gr. You may never have an issue and then for no good reason you have an over pressure event.

What boolit weight are you using? This alone makes a big difference. There are a lot of good mid range loads up to 10.0gr Unique, but most posts I have read about this subject say that 9.5gr Unique and a Keith boolit makes a decent load. There is also Herco which is similar to Unique in burn rate but it will get another 100fps with about the same pressure as 1 grain less than Unique. Usually you can substitute 1gr more Herco in the same load data for Unique and be okay.

Another thread with basically the same questions as you are asking here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?169795-Mid-Range-44-Magnum-loads

[Outpost75]

Outpost75 that is a very real apples to apples spot on piece of research there thank.you for sharing that, direct to the heart of the question!

I probably shoot 100 of the "medium velocity" Bullseye loads for each "full charge" in the .44s. Something about getting almost 1000 rounds from a pound of powder appeals to my Scots blood.

[bangerjim]

I use any standard medium fast pistol powder from the charts, depending on load data I have in the books I own. You do own load data books, right?

I have and excellent luck with ETR7 and Titegroup in 44mags for medium loads. Again, rely on the published books, not a forum, for exact load weights.

I use H110 for full house 44mag loads.

Good luck.

bangerjim

[wcp4570]

Grant, I can easily achieve 1,100fps with either Unique or Blue Dot with either Lyman #429421 or the RCBS version of it in my SBH, but it has a 10.5" bbl. No signs of excess pressure with either powder, btw.

I totally agree with Maven. My standard load for the 44mag using 429421 is 10.0 gr. Unique, get around 1000fps with no sign of high pressure.

wcp

[725]

Herco

[boatswainsmate]

I like the 12.0 Gr of HS-6 with a Keith bullet in my 5 inch Smith & Wesson 629.
http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44mag.htm

[.429]

I like 10.0gr of Unique with a 247gr gc boolit. I shoot lots of em in pistol and rifle both.

[MT Gianni]

6.5 gr Red Dot and a 250 Keith bullet will kiss 1000 fps. Cheap easy and accurate.

[waco]

6.5 gr Red Dot and a 250 Keith bullet will kiss 1000 fps. Cheap easy and accurate.

I can't find Redot or Promo around here to save my life......down to one pound.

[375supermag]

Hi...


I vote for 10.0grs of Unique with a 250-255gr LSWC.

I shoot that load in several .44mag revolvers. Adequately powerful, without the heavy recoil of full-power loads using H110/W296.

Accuracy is very good in my S&W29 Classic w/8-3/8" barrel, Dan Wesson w/6" barrel, Virginian Dragoon w/8-3/8" barrel and a Ruger SBH w/8-3/8" barrel.

The S&W shoots that Unique load pretty much exclusively, while the other three .44mag revolvers are mostly shot with full-power loads.

I probably shoot a thousand Unique 10.0gr loads for every hundred full-power loads in .44Mag. That ratio probably holds true for .41Mag and .357Mag loads as well. In fact, I probably shoot 5000 mid-level loads in .357Mag for every hundred full-power loads.

I generally start each shooting season out with a few range days of nothing but mid-level loads in the magnum handguns, just to re-acquaint myself with the revolvers. By the third or fourth range trip, I am ready to shoot a couple hundred full-power loads in .357Mag and then step up to the bigger magnums at full-power the next trip to the range.

I have six .357Mag handguns, 4 .44Mags and two .41Magnums and I like to shoot about 50 full-power loads through each one to feel comfortable with them, so that is quite a few full-power magnum handgun loads every spring on top of all the mid-level loads in those handguns/calibers. By the mid-April mark (depending on weather and work), I am ready to shoot at least 50 rounds of full-power loads through each magnum handgun I take to the range on any given trip.
Some trips I take all .357s, some trips I take a mix of calibers and guns. I always start a given magnum caliber with mid-level loads on any given range session and then break out the full-power loads and the shooting glove. I find I shoot a lot better if I acclimate myself to the magnum calibers by shooting mid-level loads first.
I do the same thing when I shoot full-power loads out of my stainless SBH in .45Colt, as well.

Add in my various .38Spl, .44Spl and .45Colt handguns and I get an awful large number of rounds downrange through my revolvers every spring/summer. That doesn't include the various autoloaders in 9mm, 40S&W and .45ACP and a M1917 .45AutoRim.

[WALLNUTT]

HS 7 is discontinued. Try HS 6. It shoots great in my 44spl which is not too far from what you're looking for.

[jonp]

I can't find Redot or Promo around here to save my life......down to one pound.

Thats because I have 6 8lb kegs of Promo in my closet

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Don't over look 7.0 grains of green dot under a 240ish grain bullet. It is my go to load for 429421 and 429452. Accurate, pleasant, and still quite powerful

[jonp]

It has been some time since I sold my SBH with a Nikon Scope but I always used Unique to get me where I wanted to go.

[GrantS]

Okay guys, some interesting info. I was told in another threat that AA#5 was probably too-fast burning and melting my lead bullet's base (240 grain)

Unique seems a common choice, and it's burn rate is actually faster than AA#5, so I'm thinking that AA#5 shouldn't be a problem at all.


As for a couple of people who asked: Yes, I've looked at load manuals, however their starting loads for 240 grainers run faster than what I'm wanting as my top load, and their "light loads" are slower than what I wanted.

[nvreloader]

Grant S

Check out the post, "A different type of powder chart"
you can find out the info on powder temp, burn rate from the chart etc,
of all the powders you might want to choose from.

HTH,

Tia,
Don





Okay guys, some interesting info. I was told in another threat that AA#5 was probably too-fast burning and melting my lead bullet's base (240 grain)

Unique seems a common choice, and it's burn rate is actually faster than AA#5, so I'm thinking that AA#5 shouldn't be a problem at all.


As for a couple of people who asked: Yes, I've looked at load manuals, however their starting loads for 240 grainers run faster than what I'm wanting as my top load, and their "light loads" are slower than what I wanted.

[wcp4570]

Okay guys, some interesting info. I was told in another threat that AA#5 was probably too-fast burning and melting my lead bullet's base (240 grain)

Unique seems a common choice, and it's burn rate is actually faster than AA#5, so I'm thinking that AA#5 shouldn't be a problem at all.


As for a couple of people who asked: Yes, I've looked at load manuals, however their starting loads for 240 grainers run faster than what I'm wanting as my top load, and their "light loads" are slower than what I wanted.

I've never heard of a powder burning so hot as to melt the base of a cast boolit before especially in a pistol length barrel. I have seen leading in barrels where size of the boolit caused leading. I fought this battle with a 9mm M&P Pro, I bought 3 different sizing dies to get it right. Too small and too large caused the gun to lead, once I hit the size the gun wanted, no more leading.

wcp

[Motor]

Bullet bases can not be melted inside the barrel by any powder or barrel length. That is a total myth. The outer edges of the base can be pressure and flame cut as it escapes around it. This also occurs when the boolit exists the muzzle.

Back on topic, I suggest Unique. :)

Motor

[GrantS]

Thank you guys :) I do have ONE POUND of Unique and I'll use it to load up a batch next time I do some, just to see how I like it.

Maybe if my leading isn't really a problem (as I'm thinking I was a worrywart) I may stick with AA#5 if it turns out that was the deal.

[waco]

Thats because I have 6 8lb kegs of Promo in my closet

I knew there was a reason!

[bangerjim]

Thats because I have 6 8lb kegs of Promo in my closet


Just don't let your local fire marshal know! HA.....ha!

[waco]

I can't find Redot or Promo around here to save my life......down to one pound.

I spoke too soon. Saw an eight pounder today for $170.........and of coarse, no cash.....:(

[umwminer]

Unique

[Uncle R.]

Unique.
10.0 with a 240 gr bullet jacketed or cast will give well over 1000 fps in my Super Blackhawk with moderate pressure and excellent accuracy.
Recoil is stout but notably less than full power loads, and that combination will do almost anything I want done with a handgun, save perhaps IHMSA rams at 200 meters.

Truth is I never actually tried it on rams. I wouldn't be too surprised to find it works there too.
I can tell you that load smacks 100 meter pigs down with authority, and does fine on turkeys.

It's still my favorite load for those rare occasions when I'm inspired to do a little showing off, shooting bowling pins with a single action. That load sweeps 'em all the way off the table every time even if the hit is a little high or low. Medium power loads in the .44 magnum is one of those places where Unique really shines.

Uncle R.

[shtur]

I like 9.2 grains of Clays Universal, because that's what my Little Dandy rotor throws, behind a 240 LSWC bullet. Great practice round for 25 yards. I practice at 25 yds because that is what I might have to shoot a grizzly at. Shooting beyond 25 yds at a grizzly may not be forgiven in court.

[Three44s]

I like the 12.0 Gr of HS-6 with a Keith bullet in my 5 inch Smith & Wesson 629.
http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44mag.htm

+10!

HS-6 is grand in the straight walled revolver cases ......... Hogdgon's #26 manual lists a start of 10.0 and a max of 12.0 gr. for a 250 gr. lead boolit and I just happened to settle on 11.8 gr. and the Fed mag primer and it's my top favorite upper medium field load in my 4in Smith MG and 7.5" RH

Good stuff!

Three 44s

[Lloyd Smale]

Id probably first grab herco and hs6 to try.

[GrantS]

cool, thanks guys, there is HS6 locally, I'll grab a can and try before bulk-purchasing :)

[Blackwater]

Many powders will work for mid range .44's, but if there's a better one than Unique, I haven't found it. I suspect I'll be shooting it in my 4 5/8" Ruger SuperB. Less muzzle blast, and with graduated loads, I should be able to find the sweet spot where the accuracy lies. Not much around my parts won't succumb to a mid level .44 or a Special load. And my ears are a big concern now. Already have tinnitus, and don't want even a dab more of it! That spells milder to mid range loads, or Special equivalents. Will try others, but Unique holds my highest expectations for good power and reduced blast.

[MarkK]

I've recently experimented with accurate #7 using Lee manual data for a 240 lswc. Still too hot for what I was after. I've had better luck with tight group in the past. Based on some of the above posts I think I will try unique.

[Aunegl]

I've always considered Accurate #7 and BlueDot as mid-level powders for 44 magnum. I guess it's relative, like space-time and incest.

[cuzinbruce]

Herco is my choice. 2400 for heavy loads. Bullseye for target loads.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Blue Dot works good for me what little 2400 i have left I'm saving for my hunting loads

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Using H&G #503 I have gotten good grouping with 17 grains of 4227 which is an old Keith load for the 44 special. A slight roll crimp...no leading or unburned powder out of a S&W 29. LLS

[knuckleball]

I use HS-6 and it meters very well.

[GaryN]

I've used the 10 grains of Unique load. I like shooting the Skeeter Skelton load of 8.5 grains of unique with a 429421 in a 44 mag. for general purpose shooting.

[elrotundamundo]

I tried this out during the powder shortage because it was available. It turned out to do a great job with Berry's 240 gr. flat point. I load 11.5 grains for a little over 1200 FPS, but Hodgdon's site lists a starting load of 10.2 gr. with a 240 grain and list the velocity as 1164 FPS from an 8 3/8" barrel. This powder meters extremely well and is always in stock where I buy. The burn rate is very close to HS-6, which was my previous favorite for midrange loads, but seems to be more available where I live (North Idaho).

[MTtimberline]

For me it's 7-7.5 of 231/HP-38 with 429421. Tames the Vaquero to an enjoyable level and has been accurate for me. Using a 200gr rnfp is also nice with this.

[GrantS]

Was busy and didn't have a chance to come back, some interesting loads.

May have to grab a pound of #7 for the heck of it, maybe try some CFE as well. I grabbed a pound of HS6. Sortof think I'll be using either HS6 or Unique in some 38/44 loads.

I shot the grand total of 350 loads I had thought were leading up the barrel and pushed the lewis lead remover through, almost no lead, just the initial buildup I had thought was lead and I'm pretty sure it was possibly unburnt lube.

Thank you again for all the recomendations

[flint45]

Another vote for Herco.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

for 1250-1300 with a 250 kieth, I was thinking I would use either 2400 or h110 or w296 for hunting loads, which is preffered by you all? also, lesoup mentioned 17 gr of 4227, as an old 44spl load. were you saying you used that load in 44 mag cases or you use that in 44spl cases in your 44mag?

[rmcc]

Been loading my Dan Wesson since 82. Two powders stand out for jacketed or hard cast. For heavy loads, W296. For all else, Unique.

[Outpost75]

You guys who are using Herco, how does it meter in the Dillon Measure?

How does its particle size compare to PB, Unique, BE86 or Universal???

[fecmech]

How does its particle size compare to PB, Unique, BE86 or Universal???
Herco looks very much like Unique and meters the same.

[mtgrs737]

10.0 Grs. of Unique is a great load for the 429421 lead bullet. I have shot that for years with excellent results, just be sure to size it to .001" over groove dia.

[OilyPablo]

I would give BE-86 a try.

[Shiloh]

Unique. I don't go any heavier than mid range loads.

Shiloh

[Shuz]

About a year ago, I "discovered" Trail Boss. In 53 years of shooting cast boolits in the .44 mag, I have found it to be the best for mid range loads. 7g behind a 225g LeeRNFP(custom mould) fills the case to the bottom of the boolit. This load gives me great accuracy and around 1050 fps velocity, depending on the length of bbl. What I really like about this powder is how forgiving it is on boolit diameter and hardness. Many of my Smith 629's have .4285" throats, but I have found that .431 boolits that I use for my Rugers and lever carbines also works well in the Smiths WITH NO LEADING. Try it and I think you will like it---just don't try and compress the powder as it was not designed to be compressed.

[Char-Gar]

Okay guys, some interesting info. I was told in another threat that AA#5 was probably too-fast burning and melting my lead bullet's base (240 grain)

Unique seems a common choice, and it's burn rate is actually faster than AA#5, so I'm thinking that AA#5 shouldn't be a problem at all.


As for a couple of people who asked: Yes, I've looked at load manuals, however their starting loads for 240 grainers run faster than what I'm wanting as my top load, and their "light loads" are slower than what I wanted.

I do not believe that AA5 is causing you any problem. AA5 is a hair slower than Unique which has been the go to powder for less than full charge 44 Magnum. I shoot allot of AA5 in various handgun rounds without any such problems.

For your needs, I like the following

11.5/AA5
10/Unique
7/Bullseye

[GrantS]

Been busy being sicker than a dog and calving season ;)

Just wanted to drop in and say thanks for the input and advice.

I decided it was me being paranoid, and it was NOT leading, as I've fired around another 400 rounds since my last post and there is ZERO buildup.

AA#5 seems like a nice powder.

Though....hehehe. I did snag a batch of Unique at $17 a pound so I may get around to using that at some point.

[Lloyd Smale]

like was said it acts similar to unique. For the most part a 10 grain load might be off .2 charge to charge but I never seen it effect accuracy unless your shooting at rocks out 3 or 4 hundred yards.
You guys who are using Herco, how does it meter in the Dillon Measure?

How does its particle size compare to PB, Unique, BE86 or Universal???

[BigMagShooter]

unique is my pick

[GONRA]

BLUE DOT is GONRA's "easy to ignite, no special crimping stuff" standard powder for these semiauto pistols:
.44 Magnum caliber (Desert Eagle),
.44 Auto Mag caliber (TDE Auto Mag North Hollywood Model 180) and
.45 Winchester Magnum caliber (AMT Automag IV pistol, also L.A.R. Grizzly).

[Blackwater]

Well, I'll put my vote in for Unique as well. It bulks up good, which contributes to better ignition, and it'll give good, decent speed. It's rather "unique" in its ability to also burn pretty consistently at differing pressure levells. Most other powders tend to have a narrower range of velocities and pressures where they'll burn well and at least pretty efficiently, which again makes Unique ..... uh ..... "unique." It's as close to an all-around powder as I've ever seen, though ultimate accuracy will often come with another powder at any given velocity level. Unique simply seems to shoot rather well across a pretty wide variety of performance levels from PSI levels of around 15K to 35K or more. That's pretty impressive in a single powder, and the accuracy it produces seems to be uniformly good, or at least it's the best I've seen at such wide variations in pressure levels and velocity variations. If it's not the best, it'll usually not be far off, and it'll do it across a wide range of performance levels from shotgun to cast rifle loads, and almost any handgun you can name. I guess that's how it got its name?