.223 Wssm & .243 Wssm

[Driller640]

My gun dealer told me today, that Browning as stopped making rifles for these cartridges and that Winchester will be stopping production of the ammo this year. So if you have one of these, maybe stock up, EH.

[bruce drake]

Just goes to show what the gun public won't do. Why buy the newest whizbang cartridge when we have plenty of cartridge already in the system that can do the job or better.

These WSSM cartridges were someone's wildcat that they sold to some gunwriter who decided to be a pusher of the new cartridge so he could have a legacy. Oh, I believe these cartridges have lasted about 10 years in production and now they are going back to Wildcat status. 30-30/30-06 and 220 Swift are over or pushing 100yrs now and 243 Remington is near to 50. Longevity comes from performance.

These cartridges have a lot of overbore and I figure barrels were getting shot out by serious shooters faster than normal. Your occasional shooter who shoots but twice a year should have no problem shooting thier half a box a year to re-zero thier scope. The ammo will just continue to go up in price until they rebarrel that Browning or Remington back to a more sensible cartridge.

Bruce
(Who is glad he didn't buy any of the WSSM series rifles when he had the option)

[DanWalker]

Two of my friends bought 223 WSSMS and sold their regular 223's to fund the purchases.
BOTH now regret doing so.

[Firebird]

The real problem with the WSSM cartridges isn't that they are horribly over-bore; but that they are so "short and fat" that they don't feed well in a typical short-length action that is designed for cartridges 2.8" long with a 4.73" base; not 2.25" long with a .550" base. They really need their own action size to be engineered for just them, and nobody is making one.

[Blammer]

I love my 25 WSSM and just picked up 3 boxes of 120PP and 117gr for $15 a box! :)
I bought all they had!
I'm lovin life!

There were 223 and 243 WSSM ammo there too at $15 a box but I don't have them cals...

[Nrut]

The real problem with the WSSM cartridges isn't that they are horribly over-bore; but that they are so "short and fat" that they don't feed well in a typical short-length action that is designed for cartridges 2.8" long with a 4.73" base; not 2.25" long with a .550" base. They really need their own action size to be engineered for just them, and nobody is making one.

Firebird...
I was under the impression that both Browning and Winchester built a super short action to handle these cart....

Bruce Drake...
As far as being overbored I was under the impression that these WSSM's had roughly the same case cap. as the X57 cases had...ie. .243 WSSM case cap. same as the 6mm Rem. and the .25 WSSM same case cap. as the .257 Roberts which many people think highly of...

Am I wrong on both counts?....anyone?

Blammer...I see you posted as I was writting mine....I kinda have the hots for a .25WSSM myself...Is your action shorter than the regular .308 length action?...Did you get a Browning or Winchester rifle?

[jackley]

The gun companies just needed a new gimmic to sell new rifles. They were trying to cash in on the success of the 6PPC the origional short fat case. They didn't stop to think that brass life was so short. That the performance of the WSSM was hardly any better or if better then something that was already out there. Oh well! Maybe there will be some cheap actions for sale.

Jerry

[Blammer]

here is a pic of my 25 WSSM

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/DSCN5049.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/DSCN5045.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/DSCN5305.jpg

not what you were expecting. :}

[Blammer]

well I can assure you the WSSM's are alive and well in the AR platform, as they readily fit in the AR15 lowers, and give you 25-06 or 257 Roberts performance out of a semi auto.

and they are fairly accurate too. :)

wanna see a target?

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Targets/25WSSM100ydinfo.jpg

and then the same load at 200 yds.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Targets/25WSSM200ydinfo.jpg

[Lloyd Smale]

of all those rediculous short mags i think the only one that interests me is the 25. A guy can push good velocity and have a heavy enough bullet like a 120 to do some good. make mine a stainless model 7 with a 20 inch barrel. I think the 22s and 24s are covered well with old calibers but theres not many guns being produced in 250 and 257 anymore and it actually filled a void.

[Nrut]

Ok, now I get it...Blammmmmmer=:Fire::Fire::Fire:...eh?

[Blammer]

Yep!

:)

[Blammer]

This is partly why I got my handle...

45 XD as fast as I can shoot em up.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/DSC_0078.jpg

[Nrut]

We can have that stuff up here, but to protect society they must be kept locked up and only fired at a approved range...to get to the range we have to have a permit for transport...Our handguns and semi-auto rifles must be less well behaved than the ones down south....An AR would make a great coyote call rifle for the times when pairs come in...Don't see many coyotes at the range...[smilie=1:

[bruce drake]

Blammer,

I've got an AR built on an Essential Arms Lower. Nice people and I got receiver that was in spec. Not like a Colt AR I once had that could only shoot the cheap Colt mags that came with it. Now you just need to ensure you've got a different caliber upper to swap around with. I've got 223, 7.62x39 and 9mm uppers to switch out with. I use the 7.62x39 for hunting in the woods.

Nrut - I measure at the slope of the cartridge's shoulder and the caliber of the round in relation to the diameter of the cartridge to determine overbore. It may have the same capacity as the x57 family but because smokeless powder burns progressively and not explosively like blackpowder, you actually have a longer burn time of flame coming out the neck of the cartridge, and if you load with a slower powder, you could feasibly see burning of the powder within the barrel itself as it projects the bullet out. All that flame may be microseconds longer in duration in comparison to the x57 case, but it will cause barrel erosion and wear. These fatter bullets are loaded with some slow powders if you look in the current reloading books. They are trying for magnum performances from these small cartridges which make the slow powders necessary for the velocity they want.

If a highpower barrel in 223 Remington is usually smoked (for highpower matches - still fine for hunting/plinking) by 3000 rounds, imagine a hotter WSSM round cutting 5-10% off the round count. At the cost of some barrels, that is expense I'd like to hold down for another caliber.

If you can get good cast loads through your WSSM rifles, this argument is moot. But then if you shot cast, WSSM wouldn't be your goto rifle as you'd probably have many more to choose from to meet the need :) WSSM cartridge rifles are a niche just like 300 fireball and 577 T-Rex.

Bruce

[bruce drake]

Blammer,

I'm leaving the Mark Martin ****** T-shirt jokes to someone else. Nice Springfield XD!

Bruce

[Nrut]

Bruce I don't see the WSSM's as a cast bullet rifle or for competion... They were designed for hunting ...."3000+ rounds and barrel life still good for hunting"....sounds good to me....:)
I haven't owned or know anyone who owns a WSSM and maybe there are issues with them...But so far I don't see them...

Driller640...thanks for the heads up...I have found a Winchester 25 WSSM in a blued rifle (close-out prices are great!)....Would rather buy a Winchester in stainless...Do you know of any for sale on your side of the ridge?
thxs...:)

[Blammer]

the springfield pistol is not mine.

It was a nice shooting gun but I really have a dislike for staple gun triggers. This one has it.

[Blammer]

Nrut-that's really too bad about the semi auto guns, only to the range.

[Driller640]

Nrut, no my dealer only stocks flavour of the week, anything else, he will order in, if he can get it. These WSSM's were never a hot seller, so he never stocked them.