Problem with buying precast bullets

[JoeH]

I am not an avid caster, I do some casting but if I can buy a good cast bullet I would just as soon not have to cast my own. I shoot cast because it's cheaper than jacketed, is available in weights and diameters one can't get in jacketed and works generally at least as well. Up here in northwest Montana all the wheel weights and "free lead" seems to be accounted for and to buy lead alloys and pay shipping one might just as well buy the bullets.
I have gotten excellent cast bullets from Dardas, from Rim Rock, and from Oregon Trails. I have very rarely seen a reject from those makers. However, I have recently gotten burned with total junk from Western Bullet Co.
I had previously gotten a couple of hundred .379" gas checked bullet from western and they shot OK and not many makers offer a gas check so I ordered 500 more.
He said he didn't have any sized .379" right then but would have in a week or so. I said OK I can wait a week. He charged the purchase to Pay Pal right then which I thought was not entirely ethical, most venders don't charge your account until the order ships but oh well, no biggie.
A month passed and no bullets so I emailed him to ask if they had shipped and maybe got lost or what? I got no reply so after another week or ten days with no response I contacted Pay Pal to log a complaint. I hated to do that but I also hated to be ignored by a guy who had my money. I still never heard from him but three days later I had a box of bullets in the mail.
I looked them over and was not real impressed. I gave them the old thumbnail test and could easily indent them with my thumbnail. I realize that is not scientific but it does give a vague idea of hardness and these bullets seemed like pure lead.
I thought well OK, I can try them for black powder loads but of course they were not lubed for black powder so I loaded 100 bullets into a pie pan in a 200 degree oven to melt off the lube so I could re-lube with SPG. Once the bullets were free of lube I could really see how crappy they were.
I picked out 20 bullets at random from the bag of 100. Not even one of the 20 was free of very obvious visual defects. I weighed them and the 20 bullets averaged 291 grains. They were labeled as Lyman #375296 which is supposed to run 269 grains so that pretty much confirms that they were pure lead.
I don't know if he sent me his scrap bullets just for spite or if this is how his junk always runs but for sure he'll never get another chance to burn this old hillbilly.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Thanks for the "heads up." I sometimes buy pre-cast bullets if I need a size for which I don't have a mold, and usually get them from Midway. Hunter's Supply brand is usually petty good.

[bangerjim]

For around $40 you can buy a 6 cavity Lee mold and make unlimited numbers of boolits. I bought com-cast boolits years ago, but never again. And now with the advance in powder coating, I would never want greasy boolits made by someone else. And, I have total control of the hardness that way, not what some "expert" thinks my bore size is and what hardness I should be shooting.

I enjoy scrounging lead, casting boolits, PC'ing them, and loading them.
Oh, yes.............AND SHOOTING THEM!:guntootsmiley:

banger

[Hick]

I'm in a similar situation of buying pre-cast. I've got two suppliers I like right now: Hunter's Supply and Meisner. They cost a little more than some but shoot great and are reliable-- and I still save a lot compared to Jacketed bullets.

[swheeler]

OMG, junk! I would want a full refund for something like that.

[JeffinNZ]

My worst bullets never looks that bad. That is disgraceful.

[jugulater]

well... thats just horrible, those have to be rejects. as JeffinNZ said those are a disgrace.

[waksupi]

Let the thread build for a day or two to gather comments, then forward the link to the company. Let them know that sub-par work gets spread around fast in the days of the internet. Trash like that can put a company out of business pretty fast.

[VinceG]

Missouri bullet company. Good results. Good customer service

[Officer29]

That is really bad. When I am casting I usually throw those back into the pot until I get it right. I would never buy bullets that look like that. Email him and attach the picture you have and ask him if he thinks they are quality bullets that someone should buy or him sell and see what he says.

[hickfu]

I think the newest caster on this forum can do better then that! I think mine looked better on my first time casting.
Get your money back!

[tpatterson950]

I didn't even know that there was a market for cast boolits.

[knifemaker]

I pretty well save my lead stash, about 1,400 pounds for times it may get real tight for purchasing reloading bullets. I have about 12 molds for most calibers I shoot most often. I look for the sales that X-treme bullets offer on their plated bullets and can get them near the cost of cast lead bullets from other suppliers. Never had a problem with accuracy or quality control with X-Treme plated bullets and I have shot over 20,000 of their bullets when I was doing IDPA matches. I have also used their hard cast lead bullets and have been 100% pleased with the product and reasonable price. Have not used any of their "cowboy" cast lead bullets.
I will cast some times to develop a good cast load for a new firearm and might keep several hundred loaded rounds on the shelf for that firearm, but most of my pistol shooting in done with X-Treme plated in 45 acp, 41 mag, 44 spec. and 38 special & 357 mag.
Needless to say I also have accumulated a stockpile of brass and primers & powder for both rifle and handguns and still have over 5,000 22 LR ammo. I did this over a period of several years when supplies were plentiful and reasonable in price. Heck the 22LR ammo were purchased for 17-22 dollars per 500 or 350 count bricks. Would buy 2-4 bricks at a time spread over 2 years before Obama drove up the prices.:D

[rototerrier]

They won't be in business long with quality like that! As others have started, those are definitely throw backs and certainly not worth anything you paid for them.

[JoeH]

Let the thread build for a day or two to gather comments, then forward the link to the company. Let them know that sub-par work gets spread around fast in the days of the internet. Trash like that can put a company out of business pretty fast.
Thank you waksupui, I think that is exactly what I will do. Don't know if it will do any good, I think the mere fact that he did ship that junk indicates that he really just doesn't give a damn. Those bullets were a waste of my money, his time, gas checks and lube and to fire them would be a waste of time, primers and powder.

[scattershot]

If I had cast that junk, I would have put them back in the pot. Thanks for the heads up, I'll never do business with that outfit.

[bruce drake]

everyone are rejects. cold mold, unfilled bands, wrinkles from oil in the molds... so many problems with that casting run. It looks like he threw scrap lead into a pot and cast your order in cold molds as soon as the lead was melted and then that was it.

[flyingmonkey35]

those look like a first attempt. In a cold mold.

This is definitely not commercial cast quality.

I totally understand that this is a hobby. And sometimes its not worth the time or money to do something.

For me I shoot less then 100 rounds a year out of my 30-06 and 30-30. Its easier for me to just buy bullets or even loaded ammo.

If it's not fun its not a hobby.

[Bruntson]

I cast my first boolits last weekend and even I know that those are rejects. Was the boss gone for the day and his brother-in-law doing the casting?

[Blackwater]

I haven't ordered from Western in years, but what I did order was excellent. Apparently, from what I've come to understand from various comments and complaints in the past, it's a one-man operation, and the fellow is quite irrascible, and you don't want to offend or tick him off. He's likely to retaliate if things strike him wrong.

I know some old guys like that, and to a man, they seem to produce very good to excellent results if you just don't tick them off. Tick them off, and .... watch out! I also understand that he may have some ongoing health problems. That can affect a fellow's sensitivities, too.

Could it be that you may have somehow unwittingly offended him? That would be my best guess, but it's only a guess, and with the world like it is today, and given a potentially grumpy old fellow, it can happen even when we don't intend to offend sometimes. I'd chalk it up to experience and just buy Oregon Trail or others you've found to work well for you. Still, the only way to really have control over what you shoot is to cast your own, and those 4-6 cav. molds make an awful lot of bullets in a mighty short time.

Things like this are the reason most of us cast our own. We just like having control over what we shoot, so we can have the consistency we're looking for, and results that are predictable and repeatable at will. Today, with factory loads being available only sporadically, it does little good to buy a box of factories and sight in with them, because the next time you go to the store, they may well be out of that specific load, and a different brand, even of the same wt. bullet, may shoot to a different POI because of the differences in the bullet's configuration, use of different powders or amounts, different primers even can affect POI, so you have to re-sight or at least check your rifle with the new box of ammo. With reloads, you can always reproduce what you need at will, and rarely have to check your sighting on your rifle. Consistency! That's why we reload and cast! Along with specialized purpose loadings and the ability to reproduce them at will EXACTLY as our rifles want them to be. And what a great asset that is, too!

[rondog]

You know the more times the name Western Bullet Co. is mentioned in this thread the more times this thread will pop up when people do web searches for Western Bullet Co.

Just sayin', if you really want to spread the word.....

[osteodoc08]

Wow. Those would have ALL BEEN REJECTED and tossed back in the scrap pile for next smelting session. Those are UGLY

[JoeH]

I emailed Western Bullet Co. requesting a refund and linked to this post as recommended. Rather to my surprise this time he did reply and said "send them back and he would refund my $107" so I guess this discussion did put a burr under his saddle. I guess I'll still be out the cost of return shipping but that's better than nothing. I hope that doesn't mean that he will just resell them to someone else. Now I think I'll order that NOE mold and cast my own as I should have in the first place. Thanks for the support of you good folks here.

[osteodoc08]

I emailed Western Bullet Co. requesting a refund and linked to this post as recommended. Rather to my surprise this time he did reply and said "send them back and he would refund my $107" so I guess this discussion did put a burr under his saddle. I guess I'll still be out the cost of return shipping but that's better than nothing. I hope that doesn't mean that he will just resell them to someone else. Now I think I'll order that NOE mold and cast my own as I should have in the first place. Thanks for the support of you good folks here.

Probably about as best that can be expected.

I hope the owner/operator will improve the QC measures and produce better product. I'd prefer for a small company survive and provide a good product for a fair price to increase competition.

[JNG3]

And this right here is why I recently took the advice of many here and bought a RCBS mold, alloy from RotoMetals, and a Lee sizer die instead of buying the 'store bought' bullets. Initial investment may be more but at least I know what I'm getting and have no one to blame but me if something goes awry.

[s1120]

And this right here is why I recently took the advice of many here and bought a RCBS mold, alloy from RotoMetals, and a Lee sizer die instead of buying the 'store bought' bullets. Initial investment may be more but at least I know what I'm getting and have no one to blame but me if something goes awry.

And the more you cast, the lower the investment is....

[DerekP Houston]

I made plenty of those starting out...but I melted them right back down.

[swheeler]

It looks like the guy made it right with you, not much more you could ask for. Hopefully he has learned from this mistake.

[wistlepig1]

Those are not worth the cost of the check. Western Bullet Co needs to learn how to cast from this site!

[TXGunNut]

I threw much better boolits back into the pot this past weekend and I was more than a little out of practice. To be honest, commercial cast bullets led me here a few years back. I spent a few hundred $ on bullets for a BPCR and none worked. I came here, figured out what I needed and ordered a big box full of gear and pretty soon I was casting better boolits than I had bought. Funny thing: 30+ moulds, two furnaces, a dozen or so sizing dies, a couple of 4500 sizers and several hundred pounds of alloy later that Sharps is still an unsolved mystery to me. Had lots of fun and success with other rifles and handguns but this one still keeps me humble.