Lil' Gun w/ .357 -& 41 Magnum Heavies

[41special]

Looking for feedback for revolver loadings 170-200 hardcast in .357.

Then 250 & up in the .41 magnum.

At what velocity threshold do gas checks come into the picture?


41special

[Mica_Hiebert]

This is pertinent to my intrest...

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

For Magnum Pistol, I think it's prudent to start using GC's when the chamber pressure of a certain load reaches the maximum limit of a given alloy.

[Scharfschuetze]

I use Lil'gun in my Marlin Cowboy lever action .357 rifle for velocities near 1,800 fps with plain base 180 grain cast boolits. I've never noted any leading in the barrel at these velocities so I've never bothered with getting a GC mould. I sure wish I could get those velocities with 30 calibre plain base boolits in my Springfields, Krags and Winchesters. Accuracy with the cast boolits is the equal of any jacketed boolit in the Marlin. The same load of Lil'gun and the 180 grain boolit out of a 6" Model 28 S&W is also free of leading.

While I have no pressure measuring equipment to prove it, Lil'gun seems to operate at a lower pressure than 296 or H110 at any given velocity. Larry Gibson and I are conspiring to investigate that suposition further later this year.

[tazman]

For Magnum Pistol, I think it's prudent to start using GC's when the chamber pressure of a certain load reaches the maximum limit of a given alloy.

I think that is probably correct. My only question is how do you know when that happens?
Some details or guidelines would be a great help to us poor uneducated souls. Even some imprecise and loose approximations would be helpful.

[Blammer]

I'd fathom a guess at about 1400 fps or faster.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I think that is probably correct. My only question is how do you know when that happens?
Some details or guidelines would be a great help to us poor uneducated souls. Even some imprecise and loose approximations would be helpful.
The Lyman castboolit handbook list pressures with most of it's data, for both starting loads and Max loads. While it's probably not truely linear...if you stay inbetween, you can guesstimate close enough. and as to alloy, see the lasc link at the bottom of the page.

[41special]

While I have no pressure measuring equipment to prove it, Lil'gun seems to operate at a lower pressure than 296 or H110 at any given velocity. Larry Gibson and I are conspiring to investigate that suposition further later this year.

Hodgons data shows this to be true.

From what I'm reading Lil' Gun gives top velocities, good accuracy with a lower operating pressure. But you have find the correct cartridge, bullet weight, primer to get it all coming together.


41

[osteodoc08]

I have had excellent accuracy with near max loadings of Lil Gun and an Accurate 411250V (a WFNGC design) as well as the 265gr WFNGC designs.

I've learned that experimenting with lighter boolits and Lil Gun = really fast forcing cone erosion. Not enough dwell time to burn efficiently and it ends up literally sandblasting the forcing cone. Just dont do it!

Where the Lil Gun really shined was with longer tubes and lever guns.

[44man]

I worked with the powder in an expensive .357, Freedom by the way. 12 shots made the barrel so hot I could solder with it. Not fast shots either. The rest of the powder will go in a .410 to use up.
It does have lower pressure but has almost no flame retardant on it.
Freedom has had many guns returned with damage and says to not use the powder.
It is not sand blasting, it is pure HEAT.
Checks are for a softer lead, PB shoots fine if the alloy is tough.

[floydboy]

I found 14.5 grs of lil gun under a lyman 358429 to be very accurate. I don't like shooting mag loads so don't shoot them for fun. I was wanting a good hunting load if and when I wanted it. I've heard about all the problems with erosion and if I was going to shoot a full mag load all the time I would probably find something else to use just in case it did cause problems. I got some lil gun for free and decided to work up a load after hearing all the wonderful stuff about it. It is accurate and really goes boom.

Floyd

[41special]

I worked with the powder in an expensive .357, Freedom by the way. 12 shots made the barrel so hot I could solder with it. Not fast shots either. It does have lower pressure but has almost no flame retardant on it.

Freedom has had many guns returned with damage and says to not use the powder.

It is not sand blasting, it is pure HEAT.

That is fascinating, I've never heard this before. Have to respect the advice from Freedom Arms, as they make some of the best revolvers in the world.

Any other powders they dislike?


41

[44man]

That is fascinating, I've never heard this before. Have to respect the advice from Freedom Arms, as they make some of the best revolvers in the world.

Any other powders they dislike?


41
Not that I know of. Lil'Gun was the worst problem.
It was accurate of course but it was designed for the .410.
Now 296 can sand blast a cone edge but my SBH has exceeded 81,000 rounds of heavy loads. Only the very edge is stippled and does no harm.
All my .357 shooting long ago was with 2400, still a good powder. For lighter loads it is hard to beat Unique.
I can say the heat of the gun scared me and the worst thing to do is ruin a Freedom.
Mr Baker and I have a history that is not good but I respect his opinion. I heard he will void the warranty if you use Lil'Gun. Not sure of course. Someone will know more about it.
Every gun maker wants you to use factory loads of course but they know darn well we hand load and will still ignore it if work needs done unless you blow up a gun. Yet my friend forgot powder in his BH .41, stuck a boolit and fired another. Cylinder expanded, bent the pin down and bulged the top strap up to ruin his scope but did not crack steel. Ruger sold him a new gun at cost.
We live in a time when our guns are so strong it is crazy to have rifle pressures in revolvers but don't melt steel.

[JoeH]

I tried one can of Lil'Gun 10 or 15 years back. I tried it in 22 K Hornet, 357 Magnum, 357 Maximum and .30 carbine, all long guns. With all of them I had extreme velocity variations and random pressure signs. I sent 5 loaded 357 mag cartridges to Hogdons and got a phone call from a tech who said he had extreme pressure variations as well. He said he couldn't account for it but it was apparent that they didn't intend to do anything about it either. I dumped the last of that can and would never consider trying it again. Some people love it and pretty much call me a liar for reporting my experience but other people have had similar experiences to mine.

[Scharfschuetze]

JoeH,

That is interesting. I wonder if you had a bad lot of the stuff. Perhaps a incompatible primer selection?

My experience with Lil'Gun in the 22 Hornet with 45 grain bullets and the .357 Magnum rifle with 180 grain boolits is that it is the best powder that I've used in those calibres ever. Chronograph results for both of these calibres were very uniform and velocities were in excess of anything that I could get to with 296 while remaining within loads given in the loading manuals. Accuracy was likewise very good out to 300 yards with the Hornet and 200 yards with the 357 rifle.

I might add that I use Lil'Gun mostly in these two applications. While it shoots well in my 357 Model 28, it doesn't give that great a boost to performance in the 6" barrel as it does in the 22" and 26" barrels of my rifles.

[41special]

Humm..

Well, I picked up a few pounds of WW 296 today. So I voted with my wallet.


I'll save the full can of Lil' Gun for that 357 or 41 mag carbine I'm planning on.

Thanks for the heads up gentlemen.


41

[S.B.]

I've never had good luck with GCs but, I'd think when leading becomes a problem?
Steve

[waco]

I use the Lil Gun up in my .221 Fireball!

[GLynn41]

cast boolit success is comes from boolit fit, pressure & alloy--
as to the gas check -- some like say a .416 gc are a little longer and rounded when seated and seem to give, may be, some more resistance-- the .41 thin not so much-- I have a 41/454 - and the.416 are more consistent over the chrony I have -this round really likes a 250 gr bullet -- have not tried anything heavy so far

have never tied Lil Gun- as when it came out -- some of the same comments came out-- so I stayed with H110 etc