Any investors or day traders here?

[pmer]

I've been looking into the idea of trading and was wondering if there are any active traders here on the board? Stocks, options Forex?

[williamwaco]

It is very easy to make a small fortune trading any of those securities.

Allyou need to do is start with a large fortune.

[nekshot]

my brother and my wife were good traders but that market is not free and highly manipulated by the big traders and when they see a newbie doing "real good" on a trade they will knock you out if they choose and they will do it after hours so in my book keep your money or play the lottery. If I was going to turn my wife loose again it would be options only, no contacts!

[opos]

Have watched several men that were in a decent retirement find it necessary to go back to work to try and recover from day trading...it's an amateurs attempt at a quick buck in the world of professionals with all the tools and information....A small day trader can be in and out of a stock and make a couple of bucks now and then...in that same time a commercial computerized day trading giant can be in and out of the stock a hundred times and make pennies at a time but on the thousands or millions of shares the control can make a strong return...they are pros and amateurs are just "dead money" like a novice in a hold em game with real card players.

[mikeyjones]

I currently work as an institutional investor. Started my career day trading and transitioned into longer term. But I worked for a hedge fund and never had to reach into my own pocket for the stake.

If you have specific questions I'd be glad to answer them.

However echoing what people have already said, it's a rigged system for the little guy. Intraday price action is dictated mostly by hfts, very little input from humans. It's pretty fascinating to watch the algos take each other out, fighting for fractions of pennies.

I've had this conversation with several people and unless you have REALLY deep pockets, I'd stay away from day/swing trading.

[koehn,jim]

If you do your research and buy good stocks for the long haul you can do very well, 5-10 percent on your money is realistic. But you also have to consider capital gains tax and brokerage fees. If you just want to do day trades be very careful, as others have said its easy to lose your shirt. In the long run good stocks will grow in value. Consider stocks that pay a good dividend that way you have a certain return. Good luck but be careful.

[dtknowles]

I've been looking into the idea of trading and was wondering if there are any active traders here on the board? Stocks, options Forex?

If you are going to trade, what do you know that the pro's don't? What is your edge? The pro's will have a speed edge on you with their server farms. You have a better algorithm than they use? You have some inside info, (that's illegal), don't get caught?

More than 30 years ago I traded stock options using a version of the Eliot Wave Theory, that was my "Edge". The Theory gave me about 2 trading windows a year for each stock I was tracking. I was graphing the stocks and computing the moving averages on graph paper, no computer then. I think that I actually earned everything I made trading but at a pretty good wage. It was not money for nothing and the chicks were not free. Remember it is a zero sum game, for you to gain you have to make someone else lose, are you better than your competition and the house always wins a cut even if you lose, it is call commission. Only the strong survive. More than half of all traders lose money. Most of the winners are pros.

Tim

[Smoke4320]

The little guy has no chance now in day trading market .. You are out classed with microsecond trading .. big broker houses are close to the market and trade many times before your trade is processed .. they win you lose ..

[Hogtamer]

I was a retail broker for 25 yrs and there's no magic. You can be right medium to long term and still lose your ****. My worst example was shorting CSCO, INTC and MSFT in a big way 3 months before the top in 2001. It was total insanity the way techs were moving up daily. I had to cover my shorts after 2 months and meet margin calls along the way. Lesson: I was absolutely right but markets stayed irrational longer than I could stay solvent. Did hit a few good licks in those years trading but the better strategy is to be patient in this sell off, do some homework in industries you know something about, determine what real value would be in a couple of the best companies and buy 1/2 your position when market prints 25% - 50% BELOW what you think value is. Momentum takes pendulums a looong way in both directions. There's something called the January effect and so far looks like this year could be a wipeout. Good luck and educate yourself somewhere besides CastBoolits!

[pmer]

Thanks everyone for the tips. It seems too easy to get gobbled up and loose. In a way I likened it to reloading and casting with all the possibilities to news, tools, charting etc. But always something seems to be missing, just no sure way to profit in active trading.

Some places let you set up a demo account like a site called Nadex. It's a exchange letting you win and loose from others with accounts there.

I can see where someone can get sucked in, loose and have work in retirement though. It sounds like they are getting the help they need.

[Plate plinker]

Don't know much but my 401 is taking it in the shorts thanks to cheap oil I suspect. Time to buy more!!!!

[GhostHawk]

Forex market 10 years ago had software to let you try your hand at it used real time data.
I did pretty good for a month, was up something like 40 % then guessed wrong and lost like 80% of what I started with.

I don't think the stock market is a great place to invest in right now.

If it was me I'd put it into gold and silver. With a few caveats.

A Never gamble what you can not afford to lose.
B Know when to get in, and out.
C Don't be greedy, if you get a decent rate of return on your time, money take your money and run.
D Do NOT try to break the bank, those guys are PRO's at this, and are big fish. You are a minnow. Stay small, fast and below the radar.

[pmer]

Don't know much but my 401 is taking it in the shorts thanks to cheap oil I suspect. Time to buy more!!!!

Same with my 401K in the last quarter too. That is what made me consider the markets and look around in the financial world.

About all I have done is open a Scottrade account and been learning what I can. My claim to fame in the market was with stock in a company I worked for. I was buying stock in the retirement plan. It seemed like everyone was and the stock would grow and split and go that way again and again. Then the pendulum swung the other way and it dropped and dropped. I was laid off but I left the stock there in the company thinking it would eventually rebound. It did spring back and I rolled it into a IRA and it has continued to grow.

[MtGun44]

I am an investor, but that has nothing to do with day trading, which I wouldn't touch
with a 10 ft pole. IMO, that is a fools errand, but you may make it work, unlike the
thousands who have lost their shirts at it.

A well diversified portfolio of stocks and mutual funds has made me a good return
on investment in my retirement fund. This is not a short term process, it has
taken more than 30 years, good pro advice and a lot of resistance of the temptation to
try to do short term trading. Long term, diversified, pro advice.

Bill

[smokeywolf]

I made a bit of money day and swing trading 15 years ago, but it was small potatoes and I was doing it more for entertainment than to make any kind of serious money. I'm still in the market, but I don't gamble by the hour, day or week anymore.

[Greg S]

I dabbled in the Forex market for awhile. Took alot of work to learn the interactions and specific intricacies of the currencies I traded. I quickley learned that I could only follow the markets while working a regular job and trying to trade while working was an inteferance. In the winters when I was laid off I could focus on the specific markets, NY @ 0300, Asia @ 1500 and the European market at bedtime.

I found the best time to trade was at market opening for an hour to an hour and ahalf with 1-1.5 hours of pre-game news and current conditions and any outside influences or news that might push certain markets. I would spend about 30 min to a hour pot reviewing trends that occurred or didn't occurr and post mortums for about four hours a day on Tuesday through Thursday. I never played on Mondays cause it was Monday, a flat market generally unless big news. After the opening, the market was dead unless there was major news. Fridays could be good on major news but basically flat with false starts. Anytime after lunchtime (EST) and a couple of martinis forget about it. If something would happen, in and out. You have to let it happen, you can't force it from a computer screen 10k away. If it happens, it happens, if it turns on you follow your plan and get out as planned. If you make your cabbage, count your blessing and take the rest of the day and enjoy it. If the market is flat, leave it alone and as before, take the rest of the day and enjoy it.

I worked basically short trades, < 30 min (ADAH) for cash and training and worked at playing, forecasting and studying the long game 7-90 days. In the short game, the speed at which a brokerage firm sells and buys trades can be the difference between winning and loosing, reguardless; they are still getting their cut. The trick is to Have a Work Plan, did I mention that yet. Now, follow the plan, rehearse it, practice it live. Find it shortfalls and ways to strengthen the plan.

Some folks (friends) tried to trade all day on a flat market. The attitude was that they were a day trader and would sit in front of the box market open to close. They felt they weren't being proactive if they didn't trade that day and would buy into a stagnate currency and then get out at the close of day at basically the same point (even +/-) but then the brokerage fee. 5-15X a week eats into the take home pretty good where as I would enter 0-3 maybe 4 a week and sometime 2-3 weeks with no entries when the market was restructuring till I could find something that I new would move in a direction that was advantagious.

I looked at myself as a buzzard cruizing the county roads looking for an easy trouble free meal. Hey, theres a dead snake in the road. Is it in a bljnd corner? Is it just before rush hour. Is there a coyote sitting in the bushes at the edge of the road eyeing the same smooshed, dried out snake that is glued to the road? What are my chances of getting that snake free and clear without 1, getting hit by a car coming around the blind corner, its almost rush hour so when I hear a car how long do I have to unass the ao. I'll check the perimeter for yotes but prey is pretty thin right now so I've got to have eyes in the back of my head while I'm down there and also listening for cars. Food for thought. You need to have a rehearsed plan for the style of trading that plan to use. Train with that plan in live trading and tweek it. Is it good, it fails 20 percent, 50, 80 percent of the time. Figure it out and compare your winners and loosers. I was about 70-80% successful when I was trading good. A market shift and a couple a bad moves and bam, your down to 60% it is time to go to training mode and figure out what you are not seeing and why. On the 20-30 that I lost or didn't reach my 'goal' most I recover some or all my fees and broke even. About 1-10, I had a 3-10 point loss and can count the ten pointers on one hand and have room. Can I trade and make money, i think so. Do I want to live by the news and the comouter screen not knowing when my next payday is coming to make my rent, car, phone ect. I am a conservative trader, it was a big week to make 3 trades, in reality 1-2 trades. Once I triple dipped on a move for 30 points. No, i didn't stay in, I followed the plan and got out @ 10. Re-evaluated the triggers, movers and news and bought in twice more, again, following the 'plan' before and during. I could have easily made i think 20 more but, that wasn't the plan.

There is a saying in trading, Greedy Pigs Get Slaughtered. You freelance and get up to make a pot of coffee and your eating Ramen for the next however bad it is. Take alittle outta da middle and be happy. Big banks/institutions can move a market and battle it out with other big money playing both sides of the fence opening 2 big positions short and long then based on the way the market moves close the loosing position all triggered by news. There is nothing like seeing the action during a jobs report (unemployement/new jobs ect). Were talking 100s of 10 digit positions as they fight it out. When the loosing positions get closed out and the market jumps 20-30 points in seconds. If you trade these, reheare, have pre-bailouts set as a stopgap trust your position based on your best decision and hope your brokerage system honors yours presets if the system is overloaded.

All in all after three years off and on, I figured about 900+ after all expenses. If you want to learn abut the markets it is a great way to spend time as a hobby. If you are retired and looking for something to do and have some disposable income take 5-20K and pay your tuition. Learn a pattern or system that is consistant, set up a trade plan/requirements, review it quicklet before entering and follow the plan, do not deviate. If the market is moving and you forcast the market will move 30 and you plan on taking 10 pionts and you reach the goal, get TFO and count your cabbage. If the market stalls, review your criteria, insure you met your triggers that are going to cause the move. If something in the criteria or set up is wrong, get out an take your lumps. If it is stalled wait it out with your finger on the eject button, maybe somebody went to get coffee and take their morning dump. If your set up is right, your plan is sound it *should happen. After awhile you come to find there is only two things in life that will happen, death and taxes, oh and brokerage fees.

If you fail at the trade do a post mortum and see why it failed. Did you miss a key indicator, did the country hit the rest button (JYN), did you hit a historic ceiling/floor or did you have the financial news off and terrorist in Kum By Ya set off a bomb in a xxxxxx (fill in the blank). You need to be annilititcal, a historian, Ray Man (movie) calm and reserved with an espresso in the left hand (3 am in the morning) a pinch of Cope in the lip and maybe a cigerette in the right hand, tums or rolaids at the fingertip and detail oriented with highly controlled aggression. If you are impolsive, unorganized, lazy feel gooder or aggressive, go to Vegas, find a roulette wheel and throw 20k on red and let it spin.

As I said, is it doable, yes. For me to be succesfull at this point, I wouldn't feel co fortable without a 90-180 day train up/market saturation and pull out the trade notes and plans and dust them off and get the success averages in the 75-80% + range and drop outta money trade if your average drops below 70%. Sometimes the markets get flat and murkey and in abscence of action, real of perceived, you see opertunities and enter that go nowhere (flase trigger in dead flat market) I'd also have to get a BBB (BIG BRASS BALL$) augmentation to get comfortable with throwing a minimum of 3-10 maybe 20 K in the fire1-3 times per week without getting emotional. Have another 20+ in reserves for margin calls in the event you don't follow your plan or the forces of evil play with your data feed, the brokerage lag ect... If you want to play on the forex, you gotta have a high percentage of success, be attentive to damage control and on the loosers the ability to see your/the errors in your plan, exicution or the wild card of outsid influences.

If it gives you the warm fuzzies and your excited for the adventure, maybe forex is not for you. You have to be emotionally detached (labotomy), financially comfortable, organized, record keeping skills & annalititcal (post mortum review cause it died), anneal, perfectionist (to an 80% level otherwise it be cashing in instead of trading), with controlled caculating aggression. Just picture the average banker you talk to about a loan, LOL.

[pmer]

Is there a difference or comparison to selling a stock short and selling a option that you think is going to decline in price? In both cases do margins come into play?

[mikeyjones]

Is there a difference or comparison to selling a stock short and selling a option that you think is going to decline in price? In both cases do margins come into play?
Time decay on the option eats away at the value.

Really do your research before pursuing this....

[Greg S]

I'm not familiar (never heard) of shorting stocks. With commodities and forex either way, long or short, the market goes against you and either preset outs are miscalculated or not set and a move has a stall or cooling off period and back tracks and the money to cover is not in your account, you'll be getting a call. Eletronic, MC, Visa or AE. I think commodities are leveraged 4-1 and forex ranges from 10-500 based on your reserves and track record on file. Supposedly now overseas some are offerring 1000-1 which is nice but, 10 pts @ 100-1 is 1K and you fu like that on 1000-1 its 10K.

A hit like that can be life changing for the gambler. End up burning your reserve and maxing out your CC.

[dtknowles]

Is there a difference or comparison to selling a stock short and selling a option that you think is going to decline in price? In both cases do margins come into play?

Based on the questions you are asking, you should do a lot more homework before you ask anymore questions. It seems you are still weak on the mechanics. You have to understand the mechanics before you can understand strategies.

You don't need tidbits from us yet. You need to study books worth of background.

Tim

[Wis. Tom]

Investing is easy, watch Obama win election the first time and put Clinton in S of S, think nothing good could come of this so, buy 1000 shares of Smith and Wesson, at $3.58 each. Last week, the Monday before EO, sell 1000 shares of Smith and Wesson, at $26.48. See? Pretty easy. LOL

[pmer]

Investing is easy, watch Obama win election the first time and put Clinton in S of S, think nothing good could come of this so, buy 1000 shares of Smith and Wesson, at $3.58 each. Last week, the Monday before EO, sell 1000 shares of Smith and Wesson, at $26.48. See? Pretty easy. LOL

Ooh yeah SWHC! Nobody sells guns like BHO.

[pmer]

Based on the questions you are asking, you should do a lot more homework before you ask anymore questions. It seems you are still weak on the mechanics. You have to understand the mechanics before you can understand strategies.

You don't need tidbits from us yet. You need to study books worth of background.

Tim

Yes I do but is it true that in either case the buyer doesn't literally own what they bought? Except for having to eventually close the short known as covering. Isn't selling short getting stock loaned to you? For example 10 shares at $15; anticipating a decline lets say down to $10 -- this where my reasoning hits a bump because from what I read you can then buy or pay back the shares at $10 while keeping the $50.00. It seems to fall under the category of no free lunch but surely I could be missing something.

Lets say with forex options, if you buy or sell 1 option of EUR/USD aren't you more or less on the hook for thinking it will go up or down without actually owning something? Except maybe the gain or loss of your own currency?

[PB234]

Try something else to make a dollar. Successful traders are some of the fastest,brightest most skilled people around and even then many bust out. My doorman use to be a long time CBOE trader who got destroyed by GS when he was making a market. You realize how experienced and great a market maker is and he busted out? Then you have the machines taking money out of the market making it even harder. I read the qualifications for employment by Citadel for a new trader. It was computer engineering and so on. Went to look at a car. The salesman used to be a floor trader who could not convert to a screen trader.

You don't have much of a chance. If you give it a try it will just be temporary luck if you survive your first few trades.

[Light attack]

You really do need to know what you are doing. Check out www.compoundstockearnings.com for info on trading options.

Good luck,

Gary

[Electric88]

Wow, I'm really glad a lot of people have chimed in on this! The other day I was thinking about it and contemplating jumping into trading, but after reading this I will most assuredly not be jumping in. I work too hard for my money to throw it away on something I don't and probably can't understand. Thank you for all the input on this!

[Smoke4320]

a wiser man you have become Obi wan

[Electric88]

a wiser man you have become Obi wan

Indeed! I have learned alot since joining this forum :D

[Iowa Fox]

Investing is easy, watch Obama win election the first time and put Clinton in S of S, think nothing good could come of this so, buy 1000 shares of Smith and Wesson, at $3.58 each. Last week, the Monday before EO, sell 1000 shares of Smith and Wesson, at $26.48. See? Pretty easy. LOL

That's a pretty good ROI

[dtknowles]

Yes I do but is it true that in either case the buyer doesn't literally own what they bought? Except for having to eventually close the short known as covering. Isn't selling short getting stock loaned to you? For example 10 shares at $15; anticipating a decline lets say down to $10 -- this where my reasoning hits a bump because from what I read you can then buy or pay back the shares at $10 while keeping the $50.00. It seems to fall under the category of no free lunch but surely I could be missing something.

Lets say with forex options, if you buy or sell 1 option of EUR/USD aren't you more or less on the hook for thinking it will go up or down without actually owning something? Except maybe the gain or loss of your own currency?

Nothing wrong with what you posted except it is a layman's oversimplification. Shorting a stock can be done two ways one covered short where you actually already own the stock, this is a hedge or open short where you sell a stock you don't own. With the covered short your stock is the collateral and you only have to pay the commission and if the stock price drops you don't lose any money because you just hedged your current investment and if the price goes up you don't make any money either. You pay the commission so that you are protected against loss but you can't gain either. You do this if you have stock that you can't sell and are worried the price might drop. The open short your collateral is the proceeds of the shares you sold plus your commission and some principal to protect the investment in case the price moves up instead of down and this principal is like margin and will have to be increased to stay in the black or the broker will cover your short and cash you out at a loss. This still is a bit of a simplification and I don't know all the right buzz words, I certainly have some of them wrong.

On the options it is even more complicated with even more variations, puts, calls, expirations dates. You can buy options on margin. That is why I suggest that you get good reference to describe these financial tools, it takes pages and pages of description to do the subject justice.

Tim

[opos]

I've always looked at "investing books" and internet "education dvd's", etc and wondered if the process or system they offer is so perfect...why are they busy selling books and dvd's and not just using the system to get rich?

Sort of like people telling me my money is of no value and no good..but they spend a lot of time and effort trying to get their hands on my money...hmmm!

I have a small portfolio of decent stocks that pay a reasonable dividend...they were stocks my Dad left my Mom when he died back in '78...she drew dividends on the same stocks (once in a while we did make a change if there was a solid reason but our broker never tried to churn our account)...When she died in '04 I just kept things as they were and just rolling along..The profits are way more than 3/4 of the total value of the portfolio...the dividends get stuck right back into the stock where it originated and the beat goes on...it's ridden through all the ups and downs for years and years...effective? Heck I don't know..but it's always paid nice dividents...the stocks have increased in value over the years and it's just good enough for me.

Got a Grandson ....'high tech" sort..tells me to get out of the market...that money is no good...I should be "mining for bit coin"...then it came time for he and his wife to buy a condo..they came to us and asked about borrowing some money to help with the down payment...did he want bit coin? No...wanted good old US Currency...did he redicule our stocks? No...just wanted to get money wherever he could...

Game/Set/ Match to the old guy.

[onceabull]

Lot's of good advice above. I'll add a bit,hoping some of it will be of value..I have been an independent commodity trader,options trader,common & preferred stock/ investor trader,since early 1970's. Entered the stock market in a significant way in fall 1974,borrowing against every thing. available at the time(except home equity) to get required funds for a margin account.. Reasoning was the Dow jones level at the time was low enough that falling further was going to set the country back to 1932...Timing 3 weeks early,but historical info is available to demo that stock investing that fall and early winter turned out to be a easy as throwing darts at pages in the WSJ..So,always,be ready to "play" at the sea change points..Also,beware any specific long or short advice proffered by a retail brokerage house.Find a few independent advisors with above average results over more than one economic cycle..Covered call writing can help protect profits as markets get toppy,and generate income during slow periods. My view is that is the best way to learn in the options markets..Don't bet the rent money, and DON'T LOSE YOUR TAW... Onceabull

[onceabull]

Last post was lengthy,so omitted the following covered call writing example: First a disclaimer: I am not presently in this trade,but do have long term history of round trip trades in this stock: International Paper (IP) closed Y'day @ $36.42,@ that price annual yield on the dividend was 4.90%, April 35 Call option closed @$2.59 bid,$ 2,80 asked..Flat market at April Option close,you have Option premium in hand plus at least one dividend.. & can start over...Trade goes against you, Life happens... Good luck, Onceabull

[koehn,jim]

Many have given very good advice, if you need another reason to be careful look at the market this week.

[Clay M]

I believe we are seeing the beginning of a real Bear market. All signs would indicate this.
If you are good at shorting stocks then you can make money as the market declines, but I would strongly advise against day trading, unless you like getting handed your head on a tray.

[TXGunNut]

I've been using a financial advisor since 2008 and have done very well with him. I don't begrudge him his commission. I have easily made more than enough to cover them in a short period of time. I've learned a lot about finance over the past several years but have no desire or time to play the day trade game or even buy stocks through the discount brokerages. I know there are people out there that understand the game much better than I do and they still get beat on a regular basis. I blame much of today's volatility on day trading, need to take a close look at my investments on a regular basis but I generally only make adjustments.

[onceabull]

Selling naked calls ,or buying puts,in the listed stock options market is a pretty inexpensive way of going short..Does require a margin account of suff.depth to cover exposure if selling the naked calls...Onceabull

[mikeyjones]

Selling naked calls ,or buying puts,in the listed stock options market is a pretty inexpensive way of going short..Does require a margin account of suff.depth to cover exposure if selling the naked calls...Onceabull


VERY different means to get to the same end (being short a stock). You realize that potential loss on naked calls is unlimited, right?

That's a very poor recommendation to people who don't understand the inner workings of the market.

This conversation has veered off to some much more advanced topics. My advice is to read the financial rags (WSJ, FT, seekingalpha.com, etc). Get familiar with the basics. Do some research on invetopedia. Open a paper money account to test some theories. Then when you're comfortable, get into the market. But don't invest more than you can afford to lose. ie: Don't bet your lunch money.

[rondog]

I'd be interested in hearing about training classes available to learn about all this stuff. I know just enough about stocks, options and futures trading to be intrigued to the edge of my seat, yet I also know it's a pool filled with sharks, barracudas, piranhas, crocodiles, and other nasties.

This is a subject I'd really like to learn more about!

[mikeyjones]

Nothing wrong with what you posted except it is a layman's oversimplification. Shorting a stock can be done two ways one covered short where you actually already own the stock, this is a hedge or open short where you sell a stock you don't own. With the covered short your stock is the collateral and you only have to pay the commission and if the stock price drops you don't lose any money because you just hedged your current investment and if the price goes up you don't make any money either. You pay the commission so that you are protected against loss but you can't gain either.

Writing covered calls IS NOT shorting the stock. There does exist something called "short against the box", but not really used, especially at the retail level.

Covered calls are used primarily for downside protection - to give a bit of cushion in event of downturn. Or sometimes used to lock in price for stock at future time.

[mikeyjones]

I'd be interested in hearing about training classes available to learn about all this stuff. I know just enough about stocks, options and futures trading to be intrigued to the edge of my seat, yet I also know it's a pool filled with sharks, barracudas, piranhas, crocodiles, and other nasties.

This is a subject I'd really like to learn more about!

I'd be very careful with the classes. If anyone actually has a strategy that gives them any sort of edge, why would they willingly distribute that to others? One would reason they could keep their edge secret and make more money....

[pmer]

So when a company gets in financial trouble like Chesapeake Energy Corp for example. What happens to their stock, does it go to zero or can it be froze at a certain level? I think they pay dividends is that stopped or reduced by now? Or is it more up to company about how its played out in the market.

[mikeyjones]

So when a company gets in financial trouble like Chesapeake Energy Corp for example. What happens to their stock, does it go to zero or can it be froze at a certain level? I think they pay dividends is that stopped or reduced by now? Or is it more up to company about how its played out in the market.
Too open ended a question to have a simple answer.

Equity will always have some value since it is ownership in the company. Therefore it will never hit 0. Even while a company is going through bankruptcy the stocks still have some value. But equity holders are generally the lowest in the credit stack and will be paid last in bankruptcy.

That said, companies have other options to delist their stock. Usually that's done by going private (commonly through an lbo). Think of Carl icahn .

Stocks can be halted, sometimes indefinitely if there are fraud issues but not because a company's value is plummeting. I'll tell you some of my most butt clenching moments as a trader were waiting out news halts.

[chuckbuster]

Didn't read all the threads so this may already have been expressed

Trading and Investing are 180 degrees from each other......
My opinion, maybe worth what it cost you
Kevin

[onceabull]

Need to clarify a couple of points: It's basically true that equity will always have some value, BUT,often in bankruptcy,there isn't any equity..Stocks in companies in bankruptcy proceedings,but before final judgement, will often be available for trading in otc markets,or the so-called "pink sheets"..For example the last quote a broker got me on Interstate Bakeries common stock was $0.0014/share,about 3 weeks before closing... In final judgement,common shareholders got squat,--That's more common than any alternative. Now,then,for yet another potential money maker,--In the vast pastures of ETF's, you can find a goodly # of equity funds that write covered calls against portfolio holdings and/or indexes..Some have extensive holdings in foreign markets,others minimal..These funds ,properly managed,should really be coining it big time,as flat to down markets are prime time,--things to buy near tops,sell once bull market trends are established,,May be a tad late to buy now,as the "pro's" are likely in there,bigtime... Onceabull

[Clark]

1) I lost 20% per year from 1988 to 1994.
2) I made 19.5% compounded annually from 1994 to 2013.
3) I have made 40% compounded annually since 2013.

1) I lost money by buying all the right stocks; cisco, microsoft, etc. and selling them because they went down 5 months later.
I went over all my investing with my father, who made 20% per year, and he said he held stocks for at least 5 years.
2) I bought microsoft and google and hung on.
3) I bought Amazon and hung on.

I am 64 now and getting too old and ignorant to know what to buy and hang on. I do not understand why Apple is so cheap right now. It makes no sense to me.

The way to calculate the compounded interest rate is to find the ratio of the two numbers in dollars, and then take the number of years root. That number, subtract 1 and multiply by 100 and there is the compounded interest.
You will find that guitars, Gold, guns, and oil go up at 3% compounded over 5 years, 10 years, 50 years, or 100 years. That is background inflation.
Colt Pythons do better, 16 gauge Mossberg bolt action shotguns do worse, but 95% of guns will be on the 3% curve.

[onceabull]

If you are one of those that call selling short "playing the market" then you will find yourself sidelined in flat and down markets..Nothing wrong with that in most cycles,this time a lot diff.from most,because money not in equities isn't earning its keep unless the crash in oil prices extends to deflation in the necessities of daily life. With the ability to sell naked calls or buy puts, one can stay lively in all phases of equity ,commodity,and interest rate cycles. Don't lose your taw.. Onceabull

[ksfowler166]

I've been looking into the idea of trading and was wondering if there are any active traders here on the board? Stocks, options Forex?
Don't do it. Active trading, day trading whatever you call it is just gambling and is not a good fiscal strategy. It is very easy to loss money trading stocks of individual businesses, it is also time consuming researching what sects/businesses might grow/shrink, not to mention you get nickle and dimed to death by fees. Also timing the markets and other tricks have been proven time and time again not to work.

A much better option is mutual funds specifically passive index fund of funds. I would personally recommend Vanguard, with the single mutual fund I have from them I am invested in 3757 US stocks, 7860 US bonds, 6005 International stocks, and 3979 International bonds. This fund is an index fund meaning it is tax friendly and you avoid mangers trying to time the market. It is also very well diversified and if one company goes belly up or they default on their bond payments I am out very little money. Not so with day traders.

I forgot the most important principal kept your investments for the long haul not only do you avoid short term capital gains taxes it also significantly reduces your odds of loosing money. I plan on holding and adding to my investment with Vanguard for 40+ years. It is practically impossible for me to loose any money with this investment give that long of horizon.