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View Full Version : Custom Lee Sizing Stem Needed



newton
01-11-2016, 01:29 PM
The sizing stem I got with my .225" die measures at .220" This leaves too much of the base unsupported and causes a crescent shape in my gas checks. I contacted Lee about it, but they said its supposed to have a .0025" clearance on all sides. I don't understand, but it is what it is.

Anyone here do custom seating stems? I would like to see if a .224" would do the trick. I made a stem of sorts by taking a piece of brass and sanding it down to .224", but it is incredibly hard to get the end of it absolute perpendicular to the rest. Without that the checks seat crooked. I am about to the point where I am going to buy myself a lathe and be done with it all.

Tackleberry41
01-11-2016, 06:24 PM
Try NOE, but they have a 22cal stem, they do not sell ones in increments. As for Lee, well I imagine its a whole lot easier and cheaper for them to have such large tolerances vs machining them closer.

A lathe is the solution, you can make them however you want, its what I do.

Retumbo
01-11-2016, 10:31 PM
If you were closer...

dudel
01-12-2016, 08:45 AM
Try Buckshot. He makes custom Lee push through sizers. His quality is something Lee should strive for.

Tackleberry41
01-12-2016, 09:36 AM
Yea but what does Buckshot charge vs Lee? He probably puts a little more effort into things. I just use the Lee stems from the push thru sizers I already had with the NOE sizer. Just had to make one for 40 cal, the 9mm one I had worked but you could see where it wasn't right on the base of the bullets.

newton
01-12-2016, 02:13 PM
Lee quoted me $30.......redonkulous.....

newton
01-12-2016, 02:16 PM
I'm going to try some copper gas checks first, just to see if its the aluminum being too soft or something. If the same thing happens with the copper gas checks, then I think I might just send it back to Lee. They said to send it in with bullets and gas checks.

It may or may not do me any good, but at least they will have an opportunity to take a look at a product they put out.

I may go with a NOE sizer in the end. I know they are more expensive, but to be able to size the noses might be worth it.

EDG
01-12-2016, 02:50 PM
Try a gauge pin in any diameter you want. They are about $3 for a precision ground pin about 2 inches long. You might be able to use it loose or braze a disk to the base.

newton
01-12-2016, 03:30 PM
Try a gauge pin in any diameter you want. They are about $3 for a precision ground pin about 2 inches long. You might be able to use it loose or braze a disk to the base.

Never thought of that. Good idea. Thanks. Only downside is that I think you would want the stem to be of softer steel than the die itself.

Retumbo
01-12-2016, 06:18 PM
Do you lube you bullets before you put the through the die.

I never got moon shapes but I did get a few checks which looked sheared.

I now put a tiny bit of lube on the check and have had no issue.

I think the dies need a bit of polishing sometimes.

newton
01-12-2016, 08:11 PM
I didn't lube them, but I have polished it to a mirror shine.

I like to seat my gas checks before powder coating. I feel the powder coating gives an extra hold on the checks. May or may not be needed. But if I put any kind of lube on them before then the powder coating will not do good.

i will try powder coating then seating checks. The powder coating is quite slick, so that may help.

The die being rough does seem like it would cause this issue, but I polished it very slick. The boolits slide through with almost no resistance. Maybe there is a small catch in there that is causing a momentary hang up, which causes the stem to press harder in one area than another.

Something is happening for sure. But it doesn't make any sense not to support the whole base of the boolit when sizing.

JWFilips
01-12-2016, 09:01 PM
Place a gas check on your stem and run it through your die: most times it will take up the slack! Works for me

gunwonk
01-13-2016, 02:13 AM
I made a stem of sorts by taking a piece of brass and sanding it down to .224", but it is incredibly hard to get the end of it absolute perpendicular to the rest.

If you can spin your homemade .224" stem in a drill press -- or even a drill -- it should be pretty easy to file the end square.

newton
01-13-2016, 11:51 AM
Place a gas check on your stem and run it through your die: most times it will take up the slack! Works for me


I actually tried that before, it did not work on this though.

newton
01-13-2016, 11:51 AM
If you can spin your homemade .224" stem in a drill press -- or even a drill -- it should be pretty easy to file the end square.

You can get it close, but one slip and its over. lol

newton
01-13-2016, 11:56 AM
With all that said, I took a closer look at the die. I had done the customary polishing of the die and the cut in the picture below really stands out. I can see how a gas check could catch slightly on it and give enough resistance to cause the fining and crescent shape on the bottom.

158024

158025

The gouge is about 1/4 of the total circumference. I sent Lee the pictures, I hope they don't try to jack me around and just send out a die body that they first take a look at.

newton
01-13-2016, 11:57 AM
I still think a larger diameter stem is needed though. But maybe if the die was not jacked it would not matter.

newton
01-13-2016, 02:28 PM
Checked my emails and Lee sent out a new die body. Fantastic customer service if you ask me. I emailed back and asked if they took a look inside the die to make sure it didn't have the same flaw. That would really stink. I assume it was a flaw in the metal as it is only isolated to one area. But I suppose a chip could have been caught by a tool for a fraction of a second to cause the issue. Its just that its so deep.

fredj338
01-13-2016, 08:18 PM
IF you have access to a lathe, you can get a cheap Lee pin & turn it down yourself. Though I think you will run into issues with only 0.001" clearance.

Tackleberry41
01-14-2016, 09:00 AM
There are several reasons Lee has such tolerances, one is its cheaper. And the other is variations in presses. If things were to tight, and things were not perfectly aligned, a bit of use and you would have wear issues. The 40 cal one I made, is tighter than Lee makes them, but I made the base a little smaller so it would be able to move and align itself. I stopped using the Lee sizers, they are not so great at making things the right size. My .430 sizer is actually .429, where my .224 sizer doesn't even touch a cast bullet, its a bit bigger then .224. The NOE ones work perfect. Well worth the money to buy the set and the inserts, also have way more options. Take up a bit less space than a bunch of the lee ones.

dudel
01-14-2016, 10:11 AM
Yea but what does Buckshot charge vs Lee? He probably puts a little more effort into things. I just use the Lee stems from the push thru sizers I already had with the NOE sizer. Just had to make one for 40 cal, the 9mm one I had worked but you could see where it wasn't right on the base of the bullets.

Buckshot's fee for the entire custom sizer and push through was comparable to Lee. Didn't get a bottle of Alox; but that was almost a bonus! Buckshot's delivery time was in days; Lee wasn't even taking more orders, but when they were, delivery was weeks or months. Buckshot also included a sized boolit to verify that the sizer was spot on.

newton
01-14-2016, 10:43 AM
I've thought about turning down a Lee .243 sizer stem. I do understand their tolerance, and the whole press thing. I don't know if its from press alignment, but I have worn every one of my Lee stems. Normally it does not effect anything though. I do not think it was from alignment though because I have used their dies on several different presses, all do the same thing.

One thing that happens when too much tolerance is available is that the stem can move to much. I am not a machinist, but I dare say that tighter tolerances are better than looser ones.

Seeing how they are sending me another die, I took this one and honed it out to the point the gouge was gone. I used steel wool and red rouge. I crimped some gas checks on last night and the same thing is happening. In fact, since the boolits drop from the mold at .225" on the dot, the sizer does not even touch them now. It is slick as a baby's but inside now also. But the stem inevitably moves to one side or the other when sizing leaving at least .005" of one part on the gas check unsupported.

So I am back to thinking its either just a matter of the combination between aluminum gas checks and the size of the boolit plus the size of the stem, or the gas checks themselves are way to soft. I have not had this problem with any other calibers and aluminum checks.

I also do not think the gas checks are too soft. I recovered some from shooting my steel plate and they look great. If they were too soft then I would think there would be more deforming of them.

I did manage to get a small piece of brass rod squared enough to use, but have to push it with the lee stem. Big pain in the rear. However, it does help a lot even though its only .223" in diameter(I went a touch too long with the sand paper).

I think I will go the NOE route next time I need to buy a sizer. The way I see it, once you have the main body the cost of each caliber is the same as Lee dies. You don't get the alox, but I don't use that anyways.

ipijohn
01-17-2016, 10:46 AM
The sizing stem I got with my .225" die measures at .220" This leaves too much of the base unsupported and causes a crescent shape in my gas checks. I contacted Lee about it, but they said its supposed to have a .0025" clearance on all sides. I don't understand, but it is what it is.

Anyone here do custom seating stems? I would like to see if a .224" would do the trick. I made a stem of sorts by taking a piece of brass and sanding it down to .224", but it is incredibly hard to get the end of it absolute perpendicular to the rest. Without that the checks seat crooked. I am about to the point where I am going to buy myself a lathe and be done with it all.


Have you tried pushing the boolit through the die base first to seat the check? Works for me. I have a machine shop in my basement to make my own sizing dies and pushers, tolerance and fit of the pusher to the die is not your problem. Something is causing excessive force to be needed when pushing your boolit through the sizing die..... Try sizing, then put on GC and size again, base first.

Jon
01-17-2016, 06:47 PM
Are you lubricating your bullets before resizing them? Most shouldn't require that much force to push through. I'm planning on making a longer stem once I get my lathe up and running. Having to pull the handle all the way down make more work when all you need is a few inches of handle travel.

newton
01-17-2016, 08:59 PM
I have tried base first. Also tried sizing, then gas check a second pass. I don't lube them first, but have tried powder coating then sizing then gas check installation.

Im getting better results since I took out that bad part by honing. Only problem is it opened up to .226" and my gun doesn't like it. But even still, the bullets just about glide through.

Lube is not the issue, aluminum checks might be, but I'll know for sure once I try copper. A longer stem would be nice, but I still think a larger diameter one would work best. I just have a hard time paying for one as much as I paid for the sizer kit itself.

Ill limp till I either get a lathe myself or find someone local who has one.

gwpercle
01-20-2016, 04:06 PM
Custom fit the punch with a small ball of epoxy putty, it's easy and the putty doesn't run and drip like epoxy glue. Makes a perfect fit and can be removed .

newton
01-20-2016, 05:31 PM
Custom fit the punch with a small ball of epoxy putty, it's easy and the putty doesn't run and drip like epoxy glue. Makes a perfect fit and can be removed .


I've thought of this and am probably going to go down this road. I found the micro lathe I'm gonna get, just have to raise the funds, then I'll be able to do a lot of these kinds of projects myself.

If I would have known how far down this casting/reloading rabbit hole I have gone before - I would have bought one to begin with and might have just about had it paid for itself.

btroj
01-20-2016, 09:25 PM
So you are going to buy a lathe to save money?

newton
01-21-2016, 09:44 AM
So you are going to buy a lathe to save money?

lol. Uh, no. In the long run? Yes, it would save money. But that's relative. Heck, if someone wanted to save money they would just not spend any - period. There are a lot of little things that I have always wanted to tweak and manufacture. They might cost $15-$25 a piece to have someone else do which is not much. But you start adding all them up and it gets up there. If I can get a micro lathe, which is plenty to do small projects on, then after ~20 of said projects it will have paid for itself.

Am I getting a lathe to just turn a new sizing stem? No - but it would not be to far off what a lot of us have done when buying a new mold and deciding we need a gun that will go with it.........


All that said, I received some copper gas checks from a member to try. The sizing stem I currently have did not deform the bottom of them like it was doing the aluminum ones. You can still see where it supports one side of the base more than the other, but I assume because the copper is thicker/stronger it does not indent and holds together through its trip in the sizer.

btroj
01-22-2016, 11:18 AM
Once you get micro lathe and realize what you can make you will want a bigger lathe. That means more expense. You also realize you need more tooling, more expense.

Start down this road and you soon understand why people say the lathe is the cheap part! I could easily spend a grand on stuff I want/need and still not even get started on the list.

Buying a lathe to save money is like starting to cast to save money. You soon understand that it is a false economy.

I wouldn't be without my lathe after just a year with it but I will never call it a money saver.

newton
01-22-2016, 12:07 PM
Once you get micro lathe and realize what you can make you will want a bigger lathe. That means more expense. You also realize you need more tooling, more expense.

Start down this road and you soon understand why people say the lathe is the cheap part! I could easily spend a grand on stuff I want/need and still not even get started on the list.

Buying a lathe to save money is like starting to cast to save money. You soon understand that it is a false economy.

I wouldn't be without my lathe after just a year with it but I will never call it a money saver.


I can see that. However, I HAVE to call it a money saver if I am ever going to be able to get it. In fact, I might have to even call it a money maker if I can think of a new tool that will help us re-loaders. :)


Honestly though, I understand what your saying. But that's what I am saying also. Anything we spend money on other than food and shelter is a "waste" of money. But we are going to spend it anyways. That's what we do.

I remember when I first started hand loading. I figured up the cost, and started with Lee Loaders. I do not remember the figures, but I know that it was going to pay for itself by shooting X amount of boxes, which I had wanted to do anyways. In fact, it was right around the time I bought my nephew his .243 and that gun has never seen a store bought round. I bought the BARE essentials mind you.

Then you dang boolit casters, one of you, convinced me to try lead boolits. Thankfully, I was given enough stuff to start with. But once hooked, it was all down hill. Having the ability to load even cheaper now meant i could save money.....ya right! It meant i could do EXACTLY what everyone said would happen....i could shoot more.

Well, its a slow process to load with lee loaders. So I needed more equipment to ramp up my production. Then, you need even more to make things easier..... Oh, the snowball mountain!

Anyways, in the grand scheme of things, the lathe would actually save money if you are savvy enough to use one. Why? Because, I know that my reloading/casting addiction is going to lead me to buy more things. I hold off as long as I can most of the time till a moment of weakness hits and I buy what I have been wanting. There are a lot of things that can be useful, that eventually I will buy, that can be made with a lathe. A micro lathe at that.

I have held off with the whole lathe thing all this time, for the most part, because I had no idea you could purchase a micro lathe. I thought the mini lathe is all they had and I do not have a whole lot of room in my shop area. A micro lathe would be a perfect fit however.

So, yes, when I buy it I will call it a money saver. And when I get around to putting some ideas to the test I might eventually call it a money maker. :)

Retumbo
01-22-2016, 09:53 PM
Among other things, buying a lathe has been one of the best things I have ever done...use it weekly and have used it to make most of my reloading equipment.

newton
01-23-2016, 05:19 PM
Among other things, buying a lathe has been one of the best things I have ever done...use it weekly and have used it to make most of my reloading equipment.

tried your hand at a mold yet? It's one of those things I've wanted to try.

Retumbo
01-23-2016, 05:34 PM
I'm not that good :)


tried your hand at a mold yet? It's one of those things I've wanted to try.