PDA

View Full Version : how far into die should case go?



gusbratz
01-08-2016, 09:53 AM
sort of a stupid question but should it go all the way in until the rim of the brass touches the bottom of the die? i have just been running my krag shells in until they get hard in my lee die(about 1/8" sticking out the bottom). but i bought a .32 rem die to start sizing 30-30 win brass into .32 rem and it is an rcbs die. it says to adjust untill the press is just camming over. i did about 8 genuine .32 rem pieces of brass to get a feel for it and the last one stuck. got me wondering if i should be smashing them in all the way like i am or leaving them stick out like i have been the my other calibers. thanks.

reed1911
01-08-2016, 10:02 AM
It depends on the use. If you are full sizing you need to run the case into the die until the shell holder touches and then cam's over on the press. When you set up the die, with no brass in the shell holder, ram all the way in the top position, screw the die all the way down until it touches the shell holder. Then lower the ram and screw another 1/16 to 1/8 inch turn, raise the ram and ensure you have resistance and then the cam over effect, if it is too hard you'll need to back off the die a little.

If you are just sizing the brass that has previously been fired and will be using it in the same gun, you only need to size enough to support the bullet.

I'm not certain exactly what you have been doing up until now as your description is really not specific enough.

You are using case lube right?

Pipefitter
01-08-2016, 10:08 AM
When I set up a sizing die I lube a case and smoke the neck/shoulder area with a candle. Then I adjust the sizing die to just touch the shoulder of the case. This assumes that the case has been fired in the gun you are reloading for.

If your chamber is cut to the deep side of spec and the die is cut to the short side of spec it will lead to primers backing out with light loads, and head separation with stout loads.

GRUMPA
01-08-2016, 10:30 AM
It's sounding like he's converting 30-30 into 32Rem cases, at least that's what I'm getting out of it.

If that's the case there's kinda more to the story so I'll base the answer on that.

Using 30-30 brass your never going to be doing anything but sizing the body down and slightly expanding the neck. If you got a stuck case it sounds like a lube issue more than anything.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100675&d=1395962456

gusbratz
01-08-2016, 12:21 PM
my longer term plan is to re-size 30-30 win into 32 rem. but to get a feel for everything i wanted to load up a few of my used genuine 32 rem brass cases. for lube i am using pure liquid lanolin rubbed into an rcbs lube pad. i roll the case on that before i put in into the press. I have been loading for my other rifles for a few months now but i just now noted that if i set the die up so it cams over right at the end of the stroke it will push the case all the way into the die. I set it up this way for the 32 rem and right out of the gate got a shell stuck for the first time. this got me wondering if i should be doing that on all my relaods or if i am now doing it wrong now. should it go all the way in when i start re-sizeing the 30-30- brass? i thought it was as easy as cutting the rim off and cutting a new extractor groove on my lathe (that part went great all ready) then running it through the 32 rem die.

EDG
01-08-2016, 01:01 PM
The one size fits all answer is the case should go into the die far enough that the FL sized case should chamber no matter where that case came from.
However sizing more than that with a FL die will reduce the life of your cases.

If you are sizing down 38-55 brass to 32 for example you have to form a shoulder and push it back until the formerly straight case will chamber.

Getting a case stuck in a die is something that many handloaders do now and then and it is due to lack of lubricant and not related to how much sizing is being done.

country gent
01-08-2016, 01:28 PM
Reforming cases can place more force on dies and equipment. A good lube is required here. Sometimes a diffrent lube like Imperial sizing die wax makes a big diffrence. Also forming in steps may help. Sizing cases may be done in several diffrent ways. Setting the die to touch the shell holder and cam over give all the sizing and case shoulder set back the die can provide, this may be more than is actually needed. Ideally you set the die to just "bump the shoulder back .002-.003 and size the neck along with the body. This will extend brass life and fit in the chamber of the rifle. This works well if one rifle is used with the brass or brass is segregated for individual rifles use only.

Hick
01-08-2016, 11:09 PM
This is an aside to the die question-- but If I understand you rightly you are trimming off the 30-30 rim and cutting a deeper extractor groove in the head. You might be opening yourself up to head separation. 30-30 cases headspace on the rim and don't have to withstand some of the force near the base that a rimless cartridge does that headspaces on the shoulder. By converting to rimless you are going to load the brass differently when fired, and by cutting a new groove you are weakening the head. Rimless cartridges are built for this, but maybe not the 30-30 cases. Maybe there is somebody on this forum who can offer an expert opinion on this (its not me).

waksupi
01-09-2016, 02:11 AM
Yesterday I made a batch of 8X57 from .30-06 brass. I had the die making hard contact at cam over, and a few of them still feed a bit hard in the rifle, needing a bit of effort to close the bolt.
As far as recutting the rims, no problem, lots of brass down there to work with.

eagle27
01-09-2016, 04:40 AM
Make the change to Imperial Sizing Wax and all your tight or stuck case problems will disappear. Lanolin is okay as a lube if you aren't trying to do much sizing or forming but it is a bare minimum. There are plenty better with ISW one of the best. Be generous rather than scrimping when using it, there does not seem to be a 'too much' with ISW where too much of other brands sees dents in the case when sizing. Big nitro express cases size easily with ISW and they certainly have a large surface area to stick in any die if a good lube is not used.

It is not such an uncommon practice to convert rimmed cases to rimless but personally if it were me I would section one of your 30-30 cases just to check how much solid brass is in the head to 'take' a rimless extractor groove. The last thing you want is for the front edge of the extractor groove to encroach into the case web area (the junction of the case wall and head). I don't know what rifle you are using in 32 Remington but in anything but a strong bolt action you do not want to experience a case head seperation

gusbratz
01-09-2016, 03:36 PM
I managed to get that stuck case out and tried a couple more. boy they were hard thought I was going to break something again. so Instead of the lube pad I took a gob of liquid lanolin right out of the bottle and put it on the case with my finger and what a difference! slid right in and out of that die. can't believe how easy it is with enought lube. I did 40 more with no problems. I had read a lot of people saying not to use too much lube so I think I was scrimping on the lube. I will be using these 32rem rounds in a model 8 rem and a model 14 rem.

GONRA
02-06-2016, 11:42 PM
GONRA suggests STP Oil Treatment (auto part stores)
or Tri-Flow Synthetic Grease (bike shops) for very best case lubes.

EDG
02-07-2016, 02:00 AM
The most effective case lube I have used is Mystik JT-6 synthetic blend #2 in the black and gold tube.
It works really well and a 14 oz tube of it is about $4. The only problem is, it is water proof and is messy, it is hard to get the stuff off of the brass when you finish. But it is very good for heavy duty forming. With some tapered cases it is so effective that the case will actually eject itself out of the die when you put a little bit of retraction force on the handle.


GOONRA suggests STP Oil Treatment (auto part stores)
or Tri-Flow Synthetic Grease (bike shops) for very best case lubes.

Stewbaby
02-07-2016, 09:21 AM
Make my own spray version and love it.

160188

slim1836
02-07-2016, 10:34 AM
Make my own spray version and love it.

160188

Ditto, works well for me.

Slim