Indoor range outrage

[Thumbcocker]

:mad:

Went to the indoor range near the wife's parents house in the metro east today. For the past few years the agreement has been that she gets an extended visit and I get to burn powder and tranquility rules at the home stead.

I always take my own ammo (loaded with boolits of course) and my prefferred targets; paper plates with target spots on them. Cheap, visable, and room to write load data on them if you get a good one. In the past I bought one of the ranges cardboard squarish silhouette targets to staple my plates onto. I usually then gave the cardboard target to another shooter at the end of my session.

Today I arrived with my own 2'x2' square of cardboard to staple my plates to. I always bring my own stapel gun too. The clerk asked if I needed targets and I told him I was good. After two hours of the zen of Ruger single actions and a nice visit with a fellow handloader it was time to go. ($18 per hour but what the heck).

When I went to settle up I was told that I could not hang cardboard from the target hangers in the future and that my paper plates were gasp NOT APPROVED TARGETS gasp. I pointed out that I was not competing in any match so it shouldn't matter what my target was. I was informed that insurance required that only approved targets be used to avoid people shooting out lights or shooting the cables in two.

I was asked to not bring cardboard or plates in the future. It was ponted out that they had approved targets for sale. This is really a moot point since I won't be going back.

I could see a problem if I were putting up breakable targets, pictures of religoius leaders, obscene pictures, or otherwise dangerous or offensive items but I have shot at paper plates for several years and on other occassions at this
range. The clerk did say that the range owner had seen my plates and gotten on the clerks case about it.

In short it shouldn't matter if a paying customer uses his own targets on a slot he is renting at a more than fair hourly rate. To say that I am annoyed is an understatement.

Has anybody else had similar bad experiences at indoor ranges?

[dmftoy1]

The reason he was annoyed was probably because he couldn't SELL you his more expensive targets and make more money . . . . . .at least that's my take on it.

[sundog]

just buy some of his targets, just a few, and use lots pasters all over them for POAs. @$18/hr, who cares, and wifey is happy, you are happy, the world is good....



added for emphasis: IOWs, make FULL use of all the paper!

[rugerdude]

I have been (ONCE) to an indoor range near my wife's parents place that has a sign by the entrance door that specifically forbids bringing in targets or handloaded ammo. So you have to buy their targets and either be able to prove any ammo you bring in is factory or else buy ammo from the range. And it AIN'T cheap! On top of that, it is handguns only and the ceiling is .44 Magnum. Plus, Contenders and Encores are not allowed regardless of caliber! Like I said, I have been once. There won't be a second trip.

[imashooter2]

Huh! There's one around here that makes you buy your ammunition from them. Not just no reloads, factory ammo from Wal-Mart is no good either. There's another that won't let you shoot Winchester white box nine. Dangerous, don't you know...

I don't know how they stay in business. They certainly don't get any from me!

[S.R.Custom]

Sounds like a range run by the bunch at 1911.org. They have lots of rules that don't make sense either.

[35remington]

"Sounds like a range run by the bunch at 1911.org. They have lots of rules that don't make sense either."

Like what? Curious, I am.

[S.R.Custom]

"Sounds like a range run by the bunch at 1911.org. They have lots of rules that don't make sense either."

Like what? Curious, I am.

About 6 months ago a guy was selling WWI vintage magazines on GunBroker for 99¢, no reserve. So I posted a link in the Collector's forum. You know, as a heads up for the collector crowd. Well, the powers that be took umbrage, deleted the post, and banned me. Not my kind of hang-out...

[HeavyMetal]

Had a like problem at an indoor here in L.A. Range had always allowed cast boolits and steel shooting. they provided the steel and lead was cool. I mostly shoot outside and it can be a few years between indoor range trips. Fast forward to my company moving a little more local to this guys range, now I can stop on the way home and shoot!

One of my guys at work went with me first time, Rules were simple buy our "lead free ammo only, all brass belongs to them, they'll tell me if I'm "qualified" to use the range!

Seems the original owner sold out to someone "new". I told them I wasn't prepared to deal with these issues and I'd find another place to shoot. They suggested I'd crawl back to them in a week as all the other indoor ranges were doing the same thing.

I suggested they'd be out of business before I 'd be back!

6 months ago I saw a for sale sign on the property, never even stopped in to ask what happened.

[ktw]

The indoor range I visit once a year or so near my parents house requires you to buy targets and ammo from them. I only go to spend some time with my dad. I only shoot rimfires there.

-ktw

[imashooter2]

One of my guys at work went with me first time, Rules were simple buy our "lead free ammo only, all brass belongs to them, they'll tell me if I'm "qualified" to use the range!


Great stuff... first they rape you on the lead free ammo then finish it off by stealing your brass!

[LET-CA]

Don't have that problem at our local indoor range in Sacramento, California. All handgun calibers are okay, and they're happy to have you bring your own ammunition. Their only rule is that if you're renting one of their firearms, that you buy the ammo from them - which seems pretty reasonable. They'll even allow my Winchester 94's since they're chambered in 357 and 44 magnum. People bring in their own targets, and they've got some fun ones for purchase too. I routinely buy targets from them to use at the outdoor range close to my office. They're doing well enough that there is usually a short wait to get on one of the 25 shooting lanes. Nice to do business with guys who seem to have it figured out.

[MT Gianni]

Our local range sits in the middle of a coolie and has 2 wooden benchs. No cost to shoot and 100, 200 aand 300 yard target bases. The wind is such that you better be off of it by 10:00 AM. I see others on it near deer season but not the rest of the year. Gianni

[jhrosier]

"Sounds like a range run by the bunch at 1911.org. They have lots of rules that don't make sense either."

Like what? Curious, I am.
They seem to make the rules up as they go.
I asked for help with the value of a Colt Delta and they deleted the post and threatened to ban me???
Strange bunch & life is too short to squander it dealing with fools.
Sure hope that incident doesn't go on my permanent record....[smilie=l:

Jack

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Yes, it will....And you're on double secret probation:drinks:
Morgan

[Bigscot]

I guess I can't complain about the local indoor range I go to when I can't get to my regular outdoor range.
It is owned by the county and when open to the public, is run by one of the local gun clubs. The range is open Sat and Sun afternoons and Tue/Thur evenings. The cost is $10/hr. You can shoot 50yd standing, 50yd bench and 100 yd bench. Can shoot any handgun, shotgun, muzzel loader and center fire rifle except 50 BMG. You can use your targets and they provide the stands and staple guns. Only restrictions ammo I believe is not tracer or ap. There is a training class you have to go through and pass a written test before you can use the range.
The only problem I have with it is some of the people that work the range have personalities of an empty casing and monitor you like a hawk and makes sure you don't go over your time limit and you don't do this and don't do that.
Others are nice and friendly. Can tell when someone has shooting experience and leaves them alone and if they are not busy and will let go over your time limit.

Like I say it's convenient and close but I have not been in over a year, preferring my outdoor range.

Bigscot

[Lloyd Smale]

I got booted off there a long time ago. There was a poster that made some jokes about retarded people and i kind of told him what i thought. The worse language i had used was to call the guy a jerk. the moderator came on and told me i could do that. I told him i was just calling a spade a spade and he booted me off for using a predudice statement. Kind of got a kick out of it. I refernce a playing card ;) and the other guy bashes learning disabled children and i get booted off and he gets consoled and told that i was just being a jerk. NO PLACE FOR ME!! there a borish bunch of no nothing 19 year old wanabes. Experts on the art of self defense and self defense weapons but i never found a single one of them that had actually been in combat or were police officers that had fired a round on duty.
Sounds like a range run by the bunch at 1911.org. They have lots of rules that don't make sense either.

[DLCTEX]

An indoor range in our area required ammo to be bought from them at high prices, and you could not pick up brass. With our wide open spaces they didn't stay in business long. DALE

[Boerrancher]

I am glad that I don't have to put up with looking for a range, and then a bunch of horses tails that run and operate it. I have a couple of ranges that I have set up on my place. I have a 75 yrd range that I sit on my deck and shoot during bad weather. I also have a maximum distance of 200 yd range that I use on nice days.

I also have within a 5 mile drive a very nice public range that is operated by the Mo Dept of Conservation. They provide the paper targets, and a place to hang them. The range is set up with a skeet and trap shooting area, 100 yard rifle range with 12 shooting stations, 25 yd pistol range with 15 shooting stations, 50 yard rifle/pistol range with 15 shooting stations, and a 75 yard rifle/pistol range with 15 shooting stations. There is no limits on Cal or ammo, except no tracers because of the fire hazard. If you want to pick up brass have at it. The only things you need to bring are your firearms, ammo, and a staple gun or push pin tacks to hang your targets.

Best wishes,

CPT T.

[hotwheelz]

Well almost all the indoor ranges around here have a "NO LEAD BOOLITS" policy and one of them charges you a fee to use your own ammo. I quit going to any indoor ranges b/c of this b.s. .. I think alot of this crap is just plain greed on the range owners part

[Dale53]

I belong to a local club where I have been a member for over fifty years. I, literally, helped build it. We have a fifteen station pistol range (outdoors) at 25 and 50 yards with turning targets.

We have a 18 station rifle range at 50 and 100 yards. We have 7 concrete benches (and room for a couple more). We also have a trap range with a voice activated trap.

Our indoor range is 50 feet and we have 9 booths. We have 720 members.

My biggest problem is watching out that "Range Nazi's" don't make life insufferable for the rest of us. We have, so far, been pretty successful in keeping the "Rule Delight" types from damaging the wonderful resource we have for the area.

Eternal vigilance is the key!

Dale53

[Scrounger]

Sadly, its the EPA and local ordinances that require the NO Lead Rule. The insurance companies and local ordinances also force the rules on targets, noise, pollution, and other things you probably object to. The NO Reloads Rule also has to do with liability in case of an accident, and with mixing company owned brass with what the customer brings in. Brass costs money and he don't want to lose his anymore than you want to lose yours. And there is always the fact that the owner wants to make money; if he doesn't, the store closes.

[jlb300]

NO LEAD rule.HAHAHAHA Unless you are shooting barnes bullets all others are jacketed lead bullets. Whats up with that?
I see the thinking that if someone who reloads a double charge is shooting next to someone that it blows up and others get injured or worse, kinda makes sense but even factory loads are not fulproof.
Maybe it is just me but I dont go to public ranges and I choose to live where I dont have to either. I truely feel for those who need to have that kind of range to work out on.

[montana_charlie]

I told him i was just calling a spade a spade and he booted me off for using a predudice statement. Kind of got a kick out of it. I refernce a playing card ;)
In case you care to know...

That 'calling a spade a spade' thing refers to using the correct term for different digging tools. A spade is used to 'dig' packed earth...a shovel is used to 'scoop' up loose stuff.

So, if you ask for a shovel, but you need a spade, you have yourself to blame for not being able to dig a ditch.
And, if you grab a spade to unload a grain truck, it will take you six times as long.
CM

[jackley]

Indoor range whats that? Around here its BLM or state land. Bring your own bench and target stand. Pick up your trash when you leave. No gun or ammo restrickions. Put your target at any range you can pace off. Get to know your wind flags. (tall grass) But above all don't shoot a cow that may be grazing through. Shoot all the prairie dogs you can. And if your real lucky a dumb coyote maybe sneaking by. We do have 2 clubs around here. The big one every body is leaving, powers to be are a PITA. The small one has no place to grow. But just buy a membership for $15 you get a key and ulimited time.

Jerry

[45 2.1]

In case you care to know... Hmmm........

That 'calling a spade a spade' thing refers to using the correct term for different digging tools. A spade is used to 'dig' packed earth Sort of, its actually called a tile spade (or a sharpshooter), used to dig "trenches" for putting in tile or utility lines in undisturbed earth hopefully....a shovel is used to 'scoop' up loose stuff. Flat nosed yes, but round nosed dig well, especially when old and thin or sharpened properly.

So, if you ask for a shovel, but you need a spade, you have yourself to blame for not being able to dig a ditch. Depends on what you get.
And, if you grab a spade to unload a grain truck That calls for a scoop shovel BTW, it will take you six times as long. Or longer.
CM

[mwohlenhaus]

that just floors me that you can't have your brass back, if I was hurting for a place to shoot, and it was the only range available, I would make dang sure none of it touched the ground, and also only take mine when I left. fortunately we are not restricted like that yet here in SE MN.

[Cherokee]

Do we have any indoor range owners that want to defend some of the practices mentioned above ?

[carpetman]

Thumbcocker---The audacity of you to use paper plates. Emily Post will tell you it requires fine china.

[eljefe]

Do we have any indoor range owners that want to defend some of the practices mentioned above ?


Not on your life!:)

[10-x]

[SIZE="3"]eljefe,
Bet your hound and mine have better sense!
Way back in the 70's I managed an indoor shooting range, no anal rules, we sold reloads and rented hand held boolit launchers.
Only problem we had was the idiots..er I mean customers shooting the floor or ceiling. Had a Caswell system and bullet trap, worked great.
Man those were the good ole days...........the practical jokes we played...........:Fire:/SIZE]

[TAWILDCATT]

its a funny thing[smilie=1:but in Mass where the laws are strict the clubs are many and the rules are sensable .I belong to one $35 a year open 24/7 and you have your on card to get in.PLUS they have a reloading room with cast bullet molds and presses.8 positions.
we always marked our auto pistols brass.I use a blue marker.and wipe the base.and when every one is done they pick up all the brass and pass the marked cases back.:coffee:[smilie=1::Fire:

[surveyor]

After reading these posts I feel real lucky. I live less than 3 miles from my local gun club. Dues are $105 per year and that enables the full use, with no additional charges of the indoor and outdoor ranges. The outdoor range is open during daylight hours, 7 days per week, the range has target stands at 25 yds, 50 yds, 100 yds, 200 yds and 300 yds. Outdoor range has approx. 30 stations, 8 of which are in an enclosed HEATED building with windows to shoot out of during the winter. The indoor range is only 50' but every member has a key and can use it 24/7/365. Been a member there for 25 years and I have never seen a time when there were not open lanes both indoors and outdoors.

Bring your own ammo and targets and pick up your own brass. Outdoor range is open to anything except tracers, even 50 BMG and full automatics. Indoor range allows any handgun/ any ammunition, but rifles are limited to 22 rimfire.

[MT Gianni]

Surveyor, Could you please send me a PM about your indoor range's fan systems? Any one else feel free also as we are trying to set up a new range here. General idea is fans and filtration at the far end with heat at the shooters end. Filter the outgoing air and forced air heating the clubhouse with 35% going to the line. Gianni

[imashooter2]

Gianni, I'm sure the NRA will send you mucho authoritative information on the subject. Give them a call.

[DanM]

Doesn't the NRA have an insurance program for shooting ranges? I wonder what they say about allowing reloads? Our local range is pistol only, no reloads, and brass that hits the floor is theirs. You can only pick up your brass if it stays in your station. Also, it is only 30' max. I only went to this range once, during mid-winter, and left as soon as I found that I could not shoot my reloads. I am blessed with a good shooting area on my property. Only 135yds, but lots of steel targets, plate rack, and pin table. For a longer shot I can shoot from my back deck and stretch it to 250yds, but at about a 30 degree down angle.

[MT Gianni]

Gianni, I'm sure the NRA will send you mucho authoritative information on the subject. Give them a call.

We have their brochure and some Pittman-Robinson money to match but it tells us to build it so it works and gives a list of "Reccommended Contractors". Not what a bunch of cowboys and miners want to hear. Gianni

[imashooter2]

We have their brochure and some Pittman-Robinson money to match but it tells us to build it so it works and gives a list of "Reccommended Contractors". Not what a bunch of cowboys and miners want to hear. Gianni

Huh! I would have expected a lot more than that. I'm disappointed and I'm not even the guy that needs the info. :(

[LeadThrower]

My local indoor range has no silly rules, and anything from a 22 to a 30-06 is fair game. The only drawback is only 5 lanes and 25 yards. They even allow shotguns, which is great since the shot makes it into the buckets of scrap I buy and use for casting -- good for the hardening elements.

I did mention to the owner he should sell me scrap for less, since I'll bring it back in value-added form and send it downrange again... I just can't figure why he nearly tossed me out that day! [smilie=l:

[Old Ironsights]

Getting your brass back is one of the main reasons I'm off Autoloaders...

They can't keep me from pocketing an empty cylinder...

[Gussy]

A thread like this makes me really appreciate the "disadvantages" of living in the boonies.
Gus

[Jim]

Indoor range? Isn't that an oxymoron like outdoor loading room? [smilie=1:

[Patrick L]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here, so don't tar and feather me too bad, OK.

Many ranges, mine included, have operational rules aimed at the lowest common denominator. For example, our outdoor 100 yd rifle range has had problems with rounds escaping over the berms. Since it is located in a heavily populated suburban area, that's no good. Upon studying the problem, we found that shooting offhand at ranges LESS than 100 yds, especially by a very tall guy who posted his targets on the low side of the target holder, could cause bullets to impact the ground between the target and the sand berms and have the bullet "bounce/ricochet" over the berms. Not good. So, on our range all rounds must be fired from the bench at ANY range less than 100 yds. Offhand, prone, sitting and kneeling are allowed at 100 yds only.

Lots of people don't like that. Lots of people, it is argued, can safely shoot offhand at 50 yds. This is true. But once you start getting into "well, its OK for THIS guy, but" rules become pretty meaningless. So, at our club its simple. These are the rules. Following them is not optional. You don't have to like them, but you do need to follow them. We could easily be closed down, and we are doing everything possible to make sure that that doesn't happen. Avoiding putting bullet hole in someone's vinyl siding seems like a good idea, even if it slightly inconveniences me.

The people the run shooting facilities (and they're not always a for profit businesses. Ours isn't) have the right to set up any rules they feel they need to in order to survive, stay safe, not get sued, whatever. Since I'm not in charge, and therefore not responsible, I don't second guess them. I make it a point to just follow the rules wherever I happen to be shooting. If I can't live with a certain set of rules, I don't shoot there.

[Patrick L]

As an aside, our indoor range is restricted to lead bullets only at 1000 fps max, because that's about all the backstop system can handle. Despite the billboard style posted warnings, and the fact that the indoor range is restricted card access, we still manage to get one or two idiots a year firing their 9mm FMJ Walmart specials inside.

[kjg]

i'm so glad i have a place to shoot in my back yard, I have been to indoor ranges that would not let me shoot my ammo but thier own ammo, and I haven't been back, I have memberships on to different ranges one has a 100 yard maximum, (black powder only) and I gets my lead thier too. and my high power range out to 350 yards that place is coooool, machine guns are not a problem,ll the brass you can find and lead is yours. kjg