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View Full Version : Here you go boys. Chew on this.



Hogtamer
01-04-2016, 11:12 PM
And please note Valerie Jarret, un-elected, un-confirmed Iranian one of 3 leading advisors on this. Looks like no more sales...back to barter economy!
http://freebeacon.com/issues/obama-executive-order-may-require-those-selling-even-a-single-firearm-become-licensed-dealers/

C. Latch
01-04-2016, 11:14 PM
At this point, all of these articles are just speculating.

runfiverun
01-04-2016, 11:25 PM
woo hoo the back round check system will be open around the clock.
that means I can buy a gun at 3 am right before I commit armed robbery of the local 7-11.

TXGunNut
01-04-2016, 11:58 PM
At this point, all of these articles are just speculating.

These "leaks" are coming from PA Ave in DC and his press lapdogs are lapping it up. They're testing the waters, I don't think we're going to like how this ends.

Pablo 5959
01-05-2016, 12:02 AM
It will never end.
Look at CA. It's just the beginning sorry to say.

MaryB
01-05-2016, 12:07 AM
Obama is playing with fire, he will get burned! Most of this will instantly land in court with an injunction.

TXGunNut
01-05-2016, 12:29 AM
Obama is playing with fire, he will get burned! Most of this will instantly land in court with an injunction.

Quite likely but the BATE will begin enforcing these "rules" at the earliest opportunity and no small business can afford to tangle with a massive bureaucracy. Just remember, the head of the BATFE serves at the whim of the president.

nagantguy
01-05-2016, 12:37 AM
Will the weapons given to isis and the cartels now have to be run through an ffl? Seems like that could get embarrassing rather fast.......nows the time for social disobedience. ...now we will see how's side the police are really on, if even one arrest is made over this now tyrannical fiat by anyone other than atf goons then we will know.

MaryB
01-05-2016, 12:53 AM
Firearms dealers are defined by law. Obama can not arbitrarily change that definition!


[A] person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.2 (http://smartgunlaws.org/federal-law-on-dealer-regulations/#footnote_1_5830)
The Gun Control Act of 1968

JSnover
01-05-2016, 01:14 AM
The Problem as Obama sees it: Too many people have guns.
Solution: Force them all to get FFLs.
:shock:

nagantguy
01-05-2016, 01:16 AM
MaryB ,l hate to disagree with you but, he and they change the meaning or words all the time, the isn't even a pretext at following the "letter" or the law any longer...the Hammonds controlled burning getting a little out of hand is terrorism but the fort hood shootings (2) were work place violence. the arming and fu ding of isis is the last shred of proof I need that laws and rights mean nothing any longer only executive fiat carries the weight of law. And only then on a case by case basis.

shoot-n-lead
01-05-2016, 01:17 AM
I expect they will have a DIFFICULT time enforcing a measure such as was posted by the OP.

nagantguy
01-05-2016, 01:18 AM
The Problem as Obama sees it: Too many people have guns.
Solution: Force them all to get FFLs.
:shock:

Just like we were forced to get insurance, and forced to be fondled by tsa and forced to buy light bulbs filled with mercury.

Artful
01-05-2016, 01:41 AM
Lovely in idea Mary but I remember when I was at a gunshow and quized by ATF, then told that if I sold over half a dozen firearms a year, I should be getting an FFL - then change of presidents and ATF said, your not selling enough guns to really be having an FFL out of your home. This road has been gone down before.

MaryB
01-05-2016, 01:49 AM
Home based FFL's are pretty much a dead thing now. Without a storefront it is next to impossible to get one. That was the reason they used to turn me down. And why I built a shop. I now have a space for a storefront that is NOT my house. Town is fine with me having a business, I am not going to be selling guns, I do laser engraving and I need to be able to have people ship me lowers etc.

bstone5
01-05-2016, 02:22 AM
The home gun smith working out of a garage with a FFL are being forced to surrender their FFL.

Here in Houston the BATF has been at the process of making everyone with a FFL working out of their garage surrender their FFL.

They will eventually get everyone due to deed restrictions where a business can not be ran from a home location.

They got me after 30 years.

jcwit
01-05-2016, 08:26 AM
Firearms dealers are defined by law. Obama can not arbitrarily change that definition!

[A] person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.2 (http://smartgunlaws.org/federal-law-on-dealer-regulations/#footnote_1_5830)

The Gun Control Act of 1968

Inform me as to when Obama started going by the law?

Smoke4320
01-05-2016, 08:50 AM
I think the short game is to declare if you sell so many guns ( they pick a very small number) you need an ffl or go thru an ffl.
Then over time you make so costly to get an ffl you can't sell any guns

jcwit
01-05-2016, 09:17 AM
Just like we were forced to buy light bulbs filled with mercury.

When did that happen? I buy LED bulbs. Much more effeciant and last much longer.

SteveS
01-05-2016, 09:58 AM
If Obama didn't have to follow the law, all firearms would be banned by now. The fact that he is trying to redefine who is "in the business" rather than just issuing an order that all gun sales have to go through a FFL shows he has to follow the law.

Like all lawyers, Obama's legal team is twisting every word and sentence they can to come up with something, anything, they can that will pass the letter of the law.

They will, inevitably, find something. They are lawyers after all. We'll find out soon just what, after three years of searching, they have come up with.

Ickisrulz
01-05-2016, 10:12 AM
When did that happen? I buy LED bulbs. Much more effeciant and last much longer.

It has been hard to keep up with the modern light bulb technology. If I remember, the CFs were the first replacement types and they do have mercury. The LED bulbs are very nice and I hope will last forever as they are not cheap. Halogen bulbs seem to be the replacement type for the old incandescent bulbs. They are expensive, burn hot and don't seem to last any longer. Maybe they use less electricity, but I cannot imagine there is a net gain in energy consumption.

osteodoc08
01-05-2016, 10:53 AM
I'll give you this pristine rifle for free so long as you pay a $500 previous housing and care fee.

You didn't sell a firearm.

Stupid laws typically have stupid loopholes.

C. Latch
01-05-2016, 11:05 AM
These "leaks" are coming from PA Ave in DC and his press lapdogs are lapping it up. They're testing the waters, I don't think we're going to like how this ends.


Agreed on all points.

starmac
01-05-2016, 01:10 PM
Iirc Obummer mentioned some back door gun control, not long after he took over the white house, he is on his way out, I expect him to come up with something we will not like.

JSnover
01-05-2016, 01:21 PM
I'll give you this pristine rifle for free so long as you pay a $500 previous housing and care fee.

You didn't sell a firearm.
No, but you did transfer it. Pretty much the same thing as most of the laws are written: "… may not own or possess…," "… may not buy, sell, or transfer…"
As long as there is no record of the transaction and the serial number hasn't been obscured, reported stolen or linked to a crime and the new owner isn't prohibited and doesn't start committing crimes, you're ok.

Smoke4320
01-05-2016, 01:26 PM
any exchange of goods or money for a gun would constitute a transfer.. I believe this is how the Government and a judge would see it

Lance Boyle
01-05-2016, 01:37 PM
hmm, we still have kitchen table FFL's here.

Heck, I'm eligible to retire from my day job in 5 years. I thought about getting one for a little side gig. I wouldn't make any money though, it'd make it too easy to buy more.

That said, I hope there is a smack down on this nonsense.

freebullet
01-05-2016, 01:53 PM
I am relieved there won't be anymore mass shootings and that we'll all have 24/7 gratis armed security guards. That O sure is lookin out for us. I can't wait till my new Syrian guards show up to protect me.

Prospector Howard
01-05-2016, 04:21 PM
After reading that article, it's quite evident what their intentions are. They're making it as clear as mud on purpose. By saying that you could be charged for selling as few as one gun and say they'll be putting more ATF agents and "investigators" out there, they make people wonder if they might be the next poor slob to be prosecuted just for selling one of your guns. It's all about control. Scare people into taking the firearm to a gun store to sell it instead of a private sale. These new "investigators" will be watching backpage and be at gun shows harassing people. There will be examples made. Exactly the slimy thing you'd expect from these sociopaths. I would expect a lot of people to just not take the chance they'd be caught up in a sting.

montana_charlie
01-05-2016, 04:47 PM
Here is an analysis of the 'new rules' by someone knowledgeable about guns and regulations.
http://bearingarms.com/sound-fury-signifying-nothing-rundown-obamas-executive-orders/?utm_source=thdailypm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl_pm&newsletterad=

leeggen
01-05-2016, 10:15 PM
O is the only one I have ever seen cry one eyed. He always crys from his left eye but not his right, reckon his left eye is demcrat.
CD

tomme boy
01-05-2016, 11:15 PM
As long as you are not in it to make a profit you are not in the business. Simple to me.

MaryB
01-06-2016, 04:14 AM
Obama just redefined that. If I sell a gun in the original box he will label me a dealer. I SAVE the boxes on the off chance I do sell one of my guns! People appreciate having the box, manual, accessory junk...

historicfirearms
01-06-2016, 10:06 AM
If you read the new guidelines on the ATF website, almost anyone can be classified as a dealer. There is no set number of guns a private individual can sell. In fact the ATF says as little as two guns could put you over the "limit". No need to even make a profit from the sale depending on circumstances. Be very careful in the coming days. The regime is looking to make examples out of people like us. Five years prison time and $250000 fine for dealing in firearms without a license. It may be worth applying for an FFL.

Freightman
01-06-2016, 10:45 AM
sad days ahead, but who sells guns? I acquire guns they never seem to leave :bigsmyl2:

bearcove
01-06-2016, 11:40 AM
I guess this will cure my sellers remorse. It seems I always regret it after I sell one.

historicfirearms
01-06-2016, 12:01 PM
I guess this will cure my sellers remorse. It seems I always regret it after I sell one.

Silver lining, thanks for cheering me up.

Prospector Howard
01-06-2016, 12:21 PM
Here it is: "they'll be watching and looking". And still clear as mud on purpose.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/04/ag-lynch-explains-obamas-gun-control-govt-looking-individuals-seek-avoid-registering/

SteveS
01-06-2016, 12:56 PM
The ATF has a good PDF on the subject...

https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

Take a look at the examples at the end.

tomme boy
01-06-2016, 02:16 PM
like I said. If you are trying to make a profit then you are a dealer. Same as it always was. It is all smoke and mirrors to scare everyone so you will go to a dealer to sell everything.

SteveS
01-06-2016, 02:43 PM
like I said. If you are trying to make a profit then you are a dealer. Same as it always was. It is all smoke and mirrors to scare everyone so you will go to a dealer to sell everything.

I do believe you're right. Little has changed. I think they will be a little more diligent in enforcement but the law hasn't changed.

They are pulling the strings like master puppeteers and the people are dancing to their tune.

imashooter2
01-06-2016, 03:48 PM
Firearms dealers are defined by law. Obama can not arbitrarily change that definition!


[A] person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.2 (http://smartgunlaws.org/federal-law-on-dealer-regulations/#footnote_1_5830)
The Gun Control Act of 1968

You're right. You and your lawyers can argue that point for years against the endless taxpayer funded resources of the BATFE.

Smoke4320
01-06-2016, 03:54 PM
You're right. You and your lawyers can argue that point for years against the endless taxpayer funded resources of the BATFE.

You can be dead right and still be locked up for years, bankrupted ....but right !
or worse the can Randy Weaver your as-----
That's the problem we do not have the power as individuals any longer..i
ts not innocent till proven guilty .. its the government can and will do what it wants and you can fight it out as long as you can

MaryB
01-06-2016, 09:58 PM
This will be challenged in court and like the rest of Obama's over reach it will get tossed out.

jcwit
01-06-2016, 10:52 PM
This will be challenged in court and like the rest of Obama's over reach it will get tossed out.

I sincerely hope and pray you are right, but






That 3 letter word right there on the end is the whole problem. And if justice retires or dies and "O" puts in another, our time for hope & change is gone!


Or began depending on how you look at it.

popper
01-07-2016, 12:49 PM
Anyone find a ligit copy of Obama's exec. orders, not just press opinions? I haven't so far.

perotter
01-07-2016, 08:34 PM
Anyone find a ligit copy of Obama's exec. orders, not just press opinions? I haven't so far.

Here is a link to what the BATFE has just issues as a result on Obama's EO. Nothing has changed. Much of it just gives examples of when they would consider someone a dealer and it is the same as before.

https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

MaryB
01-08-2016, 12:46 AM
The we will jail someone for selling 2 guns is pure propaganda! Only happen if you are doing straw sales!

imashooter2
01-08-2016, 08:10 AM
They don't have to get a conviction. They only have to bleed you until you take a plea to avoid financial ruin.

It's not the odds, it's the stakes.

jcwit
01-08-2016, 08:57 AM
Spending all ones cash flow to prove a point while the wife & kids lose a roof over their heads and go hungry is not the way to go!

MaryB
01-09-2016, 02:21 AM
At that point you are living in fear of your government. And that signals a need to make a drastic change! Government should fear the people!

imashooter2
01-09-2016, 11:33 AM
I've been cautiously respectful of the governments ability to destroy my life on a whim for many years. If you wish to call that fear, I won't quibble.

As for the need for drastic changes, you are preaching to the choir. We all agree. But the socialists and leeches living off my taxes have more votes.

dtknowles
01-09-2016, 03:30 PM
At that point you are living in fear of your government. And that signals a need to make a drastic change! Government should fear the people!

Since before I became and adult I live in fear of the government. I first learned it in Middle School. Not knee knocking fear just an understanding that the government intuitions had great power to affect my life and they were not always fair or reasonable. The rebels always suffered and those who told them what they wanted to hear prospered. Maybe that was the conditioning that they intended, maybe they don't care if you agree with them as long as you go along or at least hide you subversive activities. I lost my fear when I learned that if I played the game right I did not need to fear the government institutions, I understood that I have to accommodate them and pretend to respect them but they rarely got my true respect.

Do I want a better government, yes. Do I think we can get a better government, not likely. Is it all going down the toilet, no the toilet is stopped up and the feces is backing up. When the stink get bad enough some small changes will be made.

Would I rather live in todays world or in any other time in history? I would rather live in todays world, things overall have never been better.

Tim