A couple questions.

[Cburden]

I'm just starting to make my own boolits and I have 3 questions that I could not find although your forum is massive so they probably were answered before.

1) I shoot mostly 9mm and I want to PC the boolits. The mold I have is 125g LCN from Lee. I would need to lay them flat against the pan to spray them so the base would not be covered. I read in the PC forum that you don't need to worry about the base being coated on Subsonic rounds. The powder I use puts me at 1,100 fps give or take and that is very close to supersonic. Is it okay to not coat the base?

2) My mold is supposed to be 125g but every boolit I check is 121-122g. Is that how dense my metal is or does the extra 3 grains count for the lube that I wouldn't be using since I will be PC?

3) If you have 1 lb of lead at a 10 BHN and you mix it with 1 lb of 20 BHN, do you get 2 lbs of 15 BHN?

I didn't want to make 3 separate posts in 3 forum categories so I just lumped them all in here.

Thanks in advance!

[flyingmonkey35]

I'm just starting to make my own boolits and I have 3 questions that I could not find although your forum is massive so they probably were answered before.

1) I shoot mostly 9mm and I want to PC the boolits. The mold I have is 125g LCN from Lee. I would need to lay them flat against the pan to spray them so the base would not be covered. I read in the PC forum that you don't need to worry about the base being coated on Subsonic rounds. The powder I use puts me at 1,100 fps give or take and that is very close to supersonic. Is it okay to not coat the base?

2) My mold is supposed to be 125g but every boolit I check is 121-122g. Is that how dense my metal is or does the extra 3 grains count for the lube that I wouldn't be using since I will be PC?

3) If you have 1 lb of lead at a 10 BHN and you mix it with 1 lb of 20 BHN, do you get 2 lbs of 15 BHN?

I didn't want to make 3 separate posts in 3 forum categories so I just lumped them all in here.

Thanks in advance!
1 if your pushing to fast you should gas check the bullets.

But a jacketed bullet may have the base exposed.

I never coat the base and don't have issues but I also don't push the bullets that fast.


2. Normal. Some molds may cast light or heavy. Add a little tin and it should help.


3. Yup your math is on.

[Cburden]

I have just been following the recommended powder charge for my powder and that's what it says the fps are, I have no way to actually measure it. Would a different powder slow it down? I use CFE Pistol.

[C. Latch]

As long as the bearing surfaces of the bullet are coated, the base is of no concern. You could go a great deal faster (hypothetically) and still be fine with plain-based powder-coated bullets as long as the bearing surfaces (driving bands, whatever you want to call them) are coated.

[runfiverun]

the tin would make it lighter.

1. put less powder in the case.
2. it is what it is, and it really don't matter [most molds usually pour out heavy]
3. maybe,
is the 10 bhn 4% tin or is it 2.5% antimony and 1% tin.
bhn numbers are misleading, you want to know the alloy's composition.
for instance 5/5/90 and 2/6/92 alloy are both 15 bhn
mixing them with something else 50-50 would sure make a difference in how the alloy behaves under pressure.

[Cburden]

Awesome! Thanks a lot. I was not sure if I would need to buy a new mold since the one I currently have is not shaped for a gas check.

[Cburden]

the tin would make it lighter.

1. put less powder in the case.
2. it is what it is, and it really don't matter [most molds usually pour out heavy]
3. maybe,
is the 10 bhn 4% tin or is it 2.5% antimony and 1% tin.
bhn numbers are misleading, you want to know the alloy's composition.
for instance 5/5/90 and 2/6/92 alloy are both 15 bhn
mixing them with something else 50-50 would sure make a difference in how the alloy behaves under pressure.

The starting load was 4.4 and max was 5.0 grains according the the manufacturer. With 4.4-4.7 grains I would get black smoke coming out the barrel and would cover half the gun in what felt like soot after just 30-40 rounds. I read that it could be caused by the powder not burning correctly and to increase. I went up to 4.8 and 4.9 grains and my accuracy improved and the black smoke disappeared. I haven't changed my powder load since and that was a year ago. I was shooting lead boolits I bought from a local shop and never had a problem with leading and honestly never even saw it. If I go lower with the boolits I make, will the black smoke come back or was something different causing that. I have not went away from manufacturer data since i don't really understand everything about this.

[bangerjim]

Don't concern yourself with the base. Worry about good coating on the drive bands.

PC is ONLY a modern clean alternative to grease. You get NO protection on the base with PC. Or grease. If the velocity dictates a GC.......use a GC! GC'd 9mm molds are not that common. 9mm normally does not need them at the common velocities.

The weight is what it is. I do not worry about a couple grains for pistols and semi's. Some casters sort by weight for high accuracy rifle boolits. Load 'em and shoot 'em! That's what I do!

9mm can be tricky for some to load for due to the extremely small case size. Good luck.

In my several 9's, I found sizing to .358 and using a Lee FCD solved all my chambering/cycling problems. And allowed me 100% performance and increased accuracy. But those are my guns....your mileage may vary.

bangerjim

[Cburden]

I'm also not sure about the lead besides the bhn. It was a mix of wheel weights, lead pipes and lead roofing sheets. I added some tin solder to some of it and kept it separate to what it would do to the hardness. I just checked and the lead store bought boolits were 21-22 bhn. That's the only thing I have to go by so I was trying to match it until I came here.

[Cburden]

Don't concern yourself with the base. Worry about good coating on the drive bands.

PC is ONLY a modern clean alternative to grease. You get NO protection on the base with PC. Or grease. If the velocity dictates a GC.......use a GC! GC'd 9mm molds are not that common. 9mm normally does not need them at the common velocities.

The weight is what it is. I do not worry about a couple grains for pistols and semi's. Some casters sort by weight for high accuracy rifle boolits. Load 'em and shoot 'em! That's what I do!

9mm can be tricky for some to load for due to the extremely small case size. Good luck.

In my several 9's, I found sizing to .358 and using a Lee FCD solved all my chambering/cycling problems. And allowed me 100% performance and increased accuracy. But those are my guns....your mileage may vary.

bangerjim

I honestly don't know what requires a GC, everything I read says subsonic no, supersonic yes. With my speed being very close I didn't want to load a round in the summer and then fire it in the winter after the temperature dropped and now my summer round is supersonic. I don't know what would happen or if I'm over thinking this.

[bangerjim]

21 is way too hard! Com-cast companies make them way too hard so they will not get dinged up in shipping.

Today FIT IS KING......not hardness, as in the olde days.

I cast and shoot 9-12 + PC in everything subsonic.

Get a set of $15 artist pencils and the chart off here (do a search) for a SWAG hardness tester. I use a CabineTree tester. The pencils are close enough for most people.

banger

[bangerjim]

I honestly don't know what requires a GC, everything I read says subsonic no, supersonic yes. With my speed being very close I didn't want to load a round in the summer and then fire it in the winter after the temperature dropped and now my summer round is supersonic. I don't know what would happen or if I'm over thinking this.

Totally overthinking it!

banger

[Cburden]

I never even heard of the SWAG hardness tester. I was drawing one up at work to make my own brinell hardness tester but the pencil one looks like its all I need. Thanks so much!

[C. Latch]

You don't need a hardness tester. Straight wheelweights will be fine (perfect, really) for what you're doing, and if you mix them half and half with your lead pipes or other softer lead, they'll still be hard enough if you are powder-coating them, especially if you add a little (1% or more) tin.

If I were you I'd trade that soft lead pipe and roofing to some muzzleloader shooter for more wheelweights. Wheelweights are wonderful for plinking bullets.

[runfiverun]

I know it's a lot of information flying all at once.
take some time to sort things out a little.

and yes a faster powder would allow you to slow things down without the dirty unburned powder.
I use red-dot in my 9's right now but have used titegroup/231/ and will soon use bulls-eye.
using the faster powder speeds allow me to drop my loads down to 3 grs [about 800 fps] or move up in speed a little if I need the boolit to hit higher or lower on the paper.

the way I work up a cast load is to look for the lower settings [powder amount and oal] that allow 100% functioning of the gun.
after that base line load I can then look for better accuracy or change powders to control speed or recoil feeling.
using a slower powder gives me speed but without the flexibility that a better matched powder [one with a wide range of data for the cartridge] would give.

[Cburden]

You don't need a hardness tester. Straight wheelweights will be fine (perfect, really) for what you're doing, and if you mix them half and half with your lead pipes or other softer lead, they'll still be hard enough if you are powder-coating them, especially if you add a little (1% or more) tin.

If I were you I'd trade that soft lead pipe and roofing to some muzzleloader shooter for more wheelweights. Wheelweights are wonderful for plinking bullets.

I would love to trade some but besides this forum, i don't know a single person that does this. I have over 100lbs of the lead and can get all I can use. I can only find tin/copper/selenium mixed solder. Will that work for hardening or should I buy some tin online?

[bangerjim]

You need Sb for hardening.....like Hardball or SuperHard from RotoMetals. COWW's have some. You only need to mix for around 10-12 hardness + PC for what you are planning.

Sn is added to ~2% normally to give you good mold cavity fill. It lowers the surface tension of lead but does not contribute much to hardness in small quantities like that. And Sn is probably the most expensive metal you will use in your castings. $10-18/# and more on-line.

Keep your pure and use it with Sn and Sb to get to your alloy per the FREE alloy calculator spreadsheet on here. Do a search. Excellent tool. Your 100# will not last long! I go thru sometimes 15# or more per range visit shooting 200-300+gn boolits! And get all of it you can.........while the gettin' is good~~!!!

banger

[C. Latch]

I would love to trade some but besides this forum, i don't know a single person that does this. I have over 100lbs of the lead and can get all I can use. I can only find tin/copper/selenium mixed solder. Will that work for hardening or should I buy some tin online?

If I had soft lead and needed pistol bullets, I'd probably try to buy some linotype on the internet (the S&S forum here) and mix it. You can probably mix it roughly 1 pound for every 3-5 pounds of your soft lead. I'd start with 1:5 and only change if I saw evidence that my bullets weren't hard enough.

Or you might sweeten it and make it go even further by adding a bit of tin to it. Either way, you can make some pretty cheap 9mm bullets that way.

[gwpercle]

I've been shooting 50-50 clip on wheel weight - pure ( maybe not pure but soft scrap ) lead and it does just fine in the 3 different 9 mm's I have tried them in. I do add a bit of tin but just for casting. They also age harden in a week or two.

[Cburden]

For age hardening, is it just time? Like can I keep them in a box or ziplock bag or do I need to lay them in an open tray?

[runfiverun]

it's just time.
the lower the antimony content the longer.

if you have 2-3% 7-10 day's is plenty for air cooling.
if you water drop them from the mold wait a month.
all this does Is let you get ahead in your casting some and you have the same results now and a year from now.