Hornet primers

[JeffinNZ]

I have bought a Zastava Hornet for my 11 year old daughter (she shot her
first bunny with it the other evening) and once the factory ammo is gone (no, I
didn't buy it; came with the rifle!!) we will need to load. I have been loading
some 225415s over 2400 the last couple of days with encouraging results and have
tried CCI small pistol and Winchester small rifle primers thus far. There
appears little difference between the primers so far. I still have CCI small
rifle to try also and intend to buy some Remington 7 1/2s this week.

Any experience on the forum regarding primers in the Hornet? It has been
suggested small cases are more susceptible to such variations. I am really
interested to know if it is a factor of the strength of the primer or the powder
it is lighting. IE: does ball powder need 'X' primer whereas Unique doesn't
care?????

[Cleve Branch]

I have been told you should use mag primers with ball powder. But I haven't done any test myself. I think I read that in a loading manual.

[muskeg13]

It's been a while since I loaded for and shot my CZ Hornet, but I remember that the group sizes @50 yards were much smaller when small pistol primers were used, like 1/2 those with small rifle primers. This was particularly true with cast boolit loads in the 1500-2000 fps range. My cast boolits loads were with both 225438 and the LEE-Midsouth Bator molds, using mostly 2400 and Unique. There were no problems or surprises with pressures or hang fires. Several brands of standard small pistol primers were used with similar results. In the future, unless I work up max loads with jacketed bullets, driving up pressures, I intend to stick to small pistol primers in my Hornet.

[farmerjim]

All cast with CCI small pistol.

[Outpost75]

Winchester primers have powdered aluminum added to the mix as a fuel, which scatters hot incandescent particles through the powder charge, which aids ignition of spheroidal propellants and is helpful in cases such as the .45 Colt, using Bullseye powder, where the powder charge occupies 20% or less of the available powder space.

In my experience standard Winchester primers gave more uniform velocities in light smokeless cast bullet loads in cases such as the .303 British, .30-'06 and .45-70 than other popular brands, including their magnum primers. Federal primers also use aluminum fuel in their mix, and they perform similar to Winchester, the only real difference being that Winchester uses "basic" lead styphnate, whereas Federal uses "normal" lead styphnate and their primer cup and anvil point geometry are made to meet commercial sensitivity standards in regard to drop ball height to determine the "all fire" vs. "none fire" limits. Winchester large rifle are more like the 7.62mm NATO military (US M34) primer. CCI sells an M34 primer clone, which less less sensitive than their normal commercial primers, but the primer mix is the same as in their regular primers.

For a small case such as a .22 Hornet, I'm not sure primers are going to make a great deal of difference. Factory loads in the .22 Hornet are assembled with primers resembling the Remington 6-1/2 or Federal 200, which are commercial equivalents of the WW2 era .30 carbine primer in which base metal thickness of the primer cup was 0.018" +0.0015/-0.0000

[fryboy]

I have to admit I've wrung out the primers more with j-words rather than cast ( mine's a Khornet anyways ) my groups do fair with the same mold ,gator checks using #2 or lino have been about 1/4" tighter using r-p 6 1/2's vs. the 7 1/2's
As for ball powders ... Up to around about the 08 case ... I've had great luck with standard, if I experience a hangfire I'll switch but that's only happened once with a fairly slow ball powder

[GabbyM]

Rem 6 1/2 is what they had for the little cases prior to the 1950's. When Remington came out with the big 222 Rem cartridge in 1950 they introduced the 7 1/2 primer for it. That 7 1/2 primer is a magnum primer. The 6 1/2's are more like a pistol or magnum pistol primer. Federal primers are fairly mild and would be the next step up in power from a Rem 6 1/2. I can't imagine needing more heat in a Hornet than a Fed 205. Due to the small case volume.

[M-Tecs]

Rem 6 1/2 or small pistol have worked best for me in the Hornet.

[Ken in Iowa]

It's been many years, but my K Hornet groups suffered with Remington 7 1/2 over 6 1/2. I was using 2400 and 4227 and j-words.

7 1/2 primers are better suited in 222-223 class cartridges and higher pressures.

[Scottyh]

My Hornet likes the Lee Bator over 7 gr. of little gun with a pistol primer.

[richhodg66]

I use small pistol primers, but I load light loads.

I just shot my Stevens 322 the other evening, the Lee Bator bullet, cast very soft, gas checked and in front of about 5.5 grains of 2400 is very accurate in it and should be a great squirrel round, though I haven't used it on game yet.

Is the Zastava the same rifle as the CZ 527?

[JeffinNZ]

Is the Zastava the same rifle as the CZ 527?

Very, very similar. Rather dinky mini Mauser.

[Mk42gunner]

I haven't done a lot of shooting with my current Hornet, a Savage Model 219, but I have not had any problems using Winchester small pistol primers with any powders yet.

Rich, the Zastava (at least the one we get in the States) is the same rifle that was known as the Interarms Mini Mark X, Charles Daly Mini Mauser, Remington Model 799 and maybe a few others. The CZ is a totally different rifle, kind of like comparing a Winchester Model 70 to a Remington Model 700. Both American center fire bolt actions, but made by different companies.

Robert

[kenyerian]

I have always had best results with small pistol primers with the 22 hornet.

[CLAYPOOL]

I have one of those. Scope bases have it where a Burris scope can't go down enough to center. More checking later...

[GabbyM]

I have a CZ-527 in 222. As in my avatar.
It is the finest made rifle I have ever laid hands upon.
Not even made in the same nation as a Zastava. Either rifle is worth every penny of the price.
Zastava cost les so that is what you get.

[flint45]

Iuse only small pistol in my hornet WW&CCI.

[Larry Gibson]

I've velocity and pressure tested numerous combinations of bullet, powder and primers in my 22 Hornets. I've found with jacketed top end loads using 4227, 2400 and Lil'gun that standard SR primers give the best accuracy and internal ballistics, especially with 40 gr bullets. I've found the 7 1/2 and WSRs to both be very consistent. My most consistent and most accurate 22 Hornet load is the 45 gr Hornady Hornet bullet over 13 gr Lil'gun with a WSR primer. It runs 2940 fps out of my Savage M40 with a measured psi of 21,000.

However with lower pressure cast bullet loads I've found SP primers to be the most effective when powders such as Bullseye, Red Dot, Unique and similar are used. With lighter charges of 4227, 2400, 4759 and 5744 with heavier cast bullets it is a toss up between the SP and SR primers with testing determining which is best for a particular rifle. I have three 22 Hornet rifles and 2 prefer the SP primer while the 3rd prefers the SR primer.

Larry Gibson

[Screwbolts]

I use SP primers in my K-Hornets, 4227 has always been my go to powder in the Hornets, K'd or regular. 219 and 322,both K'd, run the BRP 47 hornet boolits very well. NOE offers a clone. My brothers H&R 22 Hornet runs the NOE 225-55 FN great with its 1-9 barrel.

[acoop101]

Even with full tilt loads of lil-gun (13 grains) small PISTOL primers have always offered the best groups with no signs of pressure.

[daniel lawecki]

I have a 22 K Hornet and have used pistol primers with H110, 2400, & IMR 4227. Groups with all these powders and pistol primers are fantastic and 100 yards. ​

[Victor N TN]

When it comes to powder, just remember that all Winchester powders are "ball" powders. That means they control the burn rate by coating the individual powder kernels with chemicals that don't burn or are more difficult to ignite. Just another reason I always thought Winchester powders were a little more nasty or "dirty" than most other powders. But that's just my opinion.

[dudel]

I've only used SPP for 22Hornet. excellent results with 2400. Your daughter may also enjoy primer only rounds with a 22 caliber pellet pushed into the case mouth.

[richhodg66]

Thanks for explaining about the Zastavas, turns out I have one and didn't realize, Charles Daily in 7.62x39.

I shoot different loads through my Savage 219 and my Stevens 322. The 219 is for really light loads (subsonic or thereabouts with plain based) and the 322 is for slightly faster, gas checked loads.

The .22 Hornet is the most fun for the buck a guy can have in my opinion.

[JeffinNZ]

Got some very encouraging results at 50m today using CCI small pistol under H4227. 2400 and Lil Gun not so much. More to follow.

[altheating]

I always use SPP but I get more dramatic results during load development by changing seating length and giving my reloads a little crimp.

[telebasher]

Got some very encouraging results at 50m today using CCI small pistol under H4227. 2400 and Lil Gun not so much. More to follow.

Try AA1680, start with 10 grains. I found what I was looking for at 11.2 gr. YMMV

[Sensai]

I've always had the best performance from the Hornet with Remington 6 1/2 primers and either Lil'Gun or 1680 powder. The Hornet is the only bottleneck (?) cartridge that I have loaded for that gives me better accuracy with a crimp than without.

[atr]

with J's I use CCI small rifle with IMR4227...very tight groups at 100 yds.
I did try CCI small pistol with the same powder/load but could not tell any significant difference in the group size at 100 yds. As usual the rifle/load is more accurate than I am.
atr:?

[JeffinNZ]

Well Lil Gun is certainly picky when it comes to primers. Tried 8gr of powder under a new style Lyman 225415, .2255 diameter, Hornady GC.

I started with CCI small pistol at 50m:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/8gr%20Lil%20Gun%20CCISP_zpslh32lwmj.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JeffinNZ/media/Shooting%20stuff/8gr%20Lil%20Gun%20CCISP_zpslh32lwmj.jpg.html)

Then thought the ball type powder might appreciate a hotter Winchester small rifle powder. It did!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/8gr%20lil%20gun_zpsesk06fd7.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JeffinNZ/media/Shooting%20stuff/8gr%20lil%20gun_zpsesk06fd7.jpg.html)

[BwBrown]

My rather limited experience:
I have two Hornets. My goal in the Hornet is to duplicate .22rf loads. It is cheaper shooting in a day and age of ammo-hoarding and sky high rim fire prices.
If I need more, I get out the 223 or 22-50.
Cast my own pills, and brass lasts forever.
I always use mag primers with ball powder.

The Ruger No. 3 cared little about primers. Individual loads often grouped better with one primer or another.

But the old BRNO really preferred small pistol primers. Always thought it might be due to a weaker firing pin strike on the softer, thinner pistol primer.

[GabbyM]

I am surprised more people don't use the Rem 6 1/2 primer. Since as far as I know it's the only one designed for small capacity CF rifle cases. Federal SR would be my next choice. But those CCI are definitely working for Jeff.

[GooseGestapo]

Exactly what Larry Gibson said. However my best Hornet j-bullet load is 40grn Sierra Varminter over 12.5,Lil'Gun and WSR primer @1.78" oal.

[daniel lawecki]

Well K Hornet %0 grain Hornady Bullet IMR 4227 10.5 grains 14'' barrel 2.5 X 8 Leupold scope first three .325 center to center fourth shot opened the group to .380 Small pistol primers I fire form with this load as well .

[Houndog]

Jeff,
A good friend of mine (Jim Carmichel) did an extensive test series on the Hornet for Outdoor Life magazine a few years ago and came to the conclusion that small pistol primers worked MUCH better than any of the small rifle primers out there. If you can find the old issue that has that writeup in it it'd be worth reading. I don't remember most of the particulars, but I do remember CCI small Pistol primers and lil gun being a good combination along with NOT trying to turn it into a magnum.

[JeffinNZ]

Jeff,
A good friend of mine (Jim Carmichel) did an extensive test series on the Hornet for Outdoor Life magazine a few years ago and came to the conclusion that small pistol primers worked MUCH better than any of the small rifle primers out there. If you can find the old issue that has that writeup in it it'd be worth reading. I don't remember most of the particulars, but I do remember CCI small Pistol primers and lil gun being a good combination along with NOT trying to turn it into a magnum.
I'd like to see that article. The CCI small pistol primers did not do at all well with the Lil Gun though in my tests but did with H4227 which leads me to think the issue is not so much the case volume but the type of powder. I might try some Unique just for a hoot and see how that goes as I understand it is very easy to light.

[GabbyM]

Obviously the best primer to use is dependent upon what powder is used.
Then that is complicated by what you can get where you live in this world.
For the bullet you want to shoot.

Unique lights easy but it ignites slowly, if that makes any sense. Result is IME you can knock the bullet down the bore with a hot primer before the powder gets to burning. I have never used the 22 Hornet but have had that issue in larger cases. 140gr plain base in a 30-30 over 8.0 grains Unique and a Federal LR primer. Bullet makes it out the barrel but gun is full of unburned powder. Happened three or four times in 400 rounds. 30-30 case is not a very large case for a large rifle primer. About the size of a 44 mag revolver case. WE would think it odd to use a large rifle primer in a 44 mag revolver to light Unique.

[BrassFerret]

I have a BRNO (CZ) ZKW 465 made in 1949 chambered for the .22 Hornet. I nearly went bald trying to get it to shoot straight! Everything changed when I switched from small rifle primers to small pistol primers. I am currently using Winchester Small Pistol Primers with S265 (Similar propellant to IMR 4227 and 2400).

Good luck to you, it is a sweet little cartridge!

[daniel lawecki]

Lil Gun will not produce good groups in the hornet period H110 2400 and IMR4227. I've been shooting this caliber for 8 years all the time. This is my 100 handgun I've manage to collect over 700 brass know.

[M-Tecs]

12.7 of Lil Gun with 40 grain V-Maxs will do 5/8 to 3/4" MOA for five shots out of my CZ 527. I get about 1 MOA out of my TC Super 14 for five.

[granville_it]

I have a BRNO (CZ) ZKW 465 made in 1949 chambered for the .22 Hornet. I nearly went bald trying to get it to shoot straight! Everything changed when I switched from small rifle primers to small pistol primers. I am currently using Winchester Small Pistol Primers with S265 (Similar propellant to IMR 4227 and 2400).

Good luck to you, it is a sweet little cartridge!

I have the same model Brno. And yes it can be a pain, almost was traded off, too nice to give away though.

I use 45gn Sierras, AR2205(H4227), Winchester or Remington cases and FERERAL SPP.

ALL cases headspace on the shoulder, NOT the rim.

Very interested in your experiences with cast.

Cheers Mark

[Shiloh]

I don't have a hornet. IIRC, it is the Rem 6 1/2 primer.

Shiloh

[dale2242]

Some time back, Speer did some testing with small pistol primers and found they got better accuracy with them than small rifle primers.
I prefer Winchester SPPs in my Hornet....dale

[Digital Dan]

Two K-Hornets and two of the regular variety over the years, none found harmony with SPP of any brand. Last two have an ongoing love affair with Li'l Gun and Federal SRP for jacketed bullets, 2400 and SRP of most any brand for cast.