The Home Stretch

[Digital Dan]

Well, the adventure with the .30 Sneezer seems to be on course, meeting expectations while administering education aplenty.

Just finished day 4 at the range. Short version is that I have a load, still looking at another possible load and am moving to the 100 yard butt next time around.

A long winded breakdown on what I've found to date, all distances at 50 yards, groups of 5 shots each:

Bullseye was a bust from the first round, delivering average groups of 1.88" for 2 loads.

WW540 served up a couple of sub 1" groups in the 800 fps range (4-4.2 gr) but began shooting patterns with stronger loads. Average group size for the series is 1.88", highest velocity was 886 fps avg. ES of 30 on average.

2400 averaged groups of 1.52" for the series, 4.5-6.1 gr in .2 increments. Best groups around 1.15" w/5.7 gr and 859 fps. Average ES was 44 fps.

IMR4227 was a bust. Average groups of 2.0" and ES avg of 68 over the range of 6-6.4 grains and highest velocity of 756 fps. I suspect it would do better with greater charges but I've plenty of functional options to keep me otherwise occupied.

SR4759 is a tease and the one other powder I think will work. It has presented groups in the 1.1" range in the last two loadings and with an average velocity of ~850 fps. ES numbers are horrid, averaging 50 over the series. Most recently the amount of unburned kernels observed in the bore have diminished greatly as the loads increase and the ES numbers are declining. The last load was the first to fall into the 20s for ES, this with a load density of 70%. Charges have ranged from 5.8-6.8 gr in .2 increments.

WW571......sort of a fizzle. Did its best work with the first charge of 5.5 grains, and ES of 37 and velocity of 961 fps. Downhill from there it was.

Li'l Gun is the Rock Star of this parade. Though I only started working with it during the last two range sessions it has averaged .64" for three groups, ES of 26 and high average velocity of 1038 fps. Can't hardly not like that! Charges have ranged from 6-6.4 gr in .2 increments.

Dupont 800X looked to be the star of this show and in fact could still find use after I use up 10# or so of Li'l Gun. Average of 9 groups was 1.65". Average ES was superior at 21 and the burn was very clean, that being something of note when using a suppressor. Alas, it went a little haywire today and as it crashed thru the 1,000 fps barrier is leaded the bore badly and that is the second time it has done so. That said, .12" groupage at around 950 fps is nothing to sneeze at and it will be a fall back in times of need. Average of 3 groups with 4.2 gr was .95".

This is what 800X did to the bore at the 1000 fps threshold...and tossed in a 3" group for giggles.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/Leading_zps8w9wn30n.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/Leading_zps8w9wn30n.jpg.html)

And this is what happened to one of my bullets when it collided with a wall of dirt.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/Bullet%20meet%20dirt_zpsvy42l3co.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/Bullet%20meet%20dirt_zpsvy42l3co.jpg.html)

Did I tell you I like Li'l Gun?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/LG2_zpshq59nb9c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/LG2_zpshq59nb9c.jpg.html)

[Mk42gunner]

.30 Sneezer? I must have missed it, can you enlighten me?

Robert

[William Yanda]

Makes me wonder what might happen with a magnum pistol primer with 4579

[runfiverun]

long shot and AA#9 might be worth looking at.
your dancing around the right place you just need to find that comfortable load you and the gun are happy with.

[Shiloh]

Good data!!
What is a .30 sneezer??

Shiloh

[Digital Dan]

The Sneezer is a figment of my imagination sprung to life. Long necked .30-357 mostly, intended for cast in the subsonic mode only.

The suggestion re: mag primers and 4759 is well taken. To date I've been minimizing variables to the extent possible. Primers/size diameter etc are things best examined one at a time. Having progressed a fair way with this such things are on the near horizon.

There was another thread on this awhile back. Pictures speak many words, no?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/Dies_zpsefv9sbgq.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/Dies_zpsefv9sbgq.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/Sneezer%205_zpsnfujhrsr.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/Sneezer%205_zpsnfujhrsr.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/4.2%20WW540%2050%20yds_zpsx7otpqan.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/4.2%20WW540%2050%20yds_zpsx7otpqan.jpg.html)

Starline brass, Brooks mould of custom design casting 183.5 grains of 30:1 alloy at .310". Loads to date have all used WW SPP and the aforementioned powders. Barrel is 19"; 1:12" twist from Bullberry, can by Silencerco. In the 950 fps velocity range is sounds much like a suppressed .22 SV LR report.

Much more to examine, but one of the 'goals' has been achieved in the form of max velocity (1050). I'm close to the precision goal set from the beginning of sub MOA @ 100 yards. A few more powders to try and other stuff to tweak. I cannot complement the following too much: Manson Precision Reamers, Hornady, Bullberry and Steve Brooks. The bullet was the first and very critical step, all else revolved around that design.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/Ducks_zpscqr0rx5a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/Ducks_zpscqr0rx5a.jpg.html)

[6622729]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/Ducks_zpscqr0rx5a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/Ducks_zpscqr0rx5a.jpg.html)[/QUOTE]

What alloy are you using? Gorgeous work!

[Gtek]

Case volume close to our little friend the Whisper/Blackout, AA1680?

[Digital Dan]

It is very close to the same capacity as the BO; coincidence not intent. Have many powder varieties but 1680 is not on that list.

[Doc Highwall]

I really like the long neck.

[Gtek]

10-4 on the neck also keeping the tail out of the fire. More twist and more Boolit in future experimental thoughts? Familiar with a little round called the 32 Miller?

[TXGunNut]

Interesting test, results well represented. I'm predicting a few surprises at the 100 yd line but I'll second the suggestion of a magnum primer once you get the herd thinned down a bit. I'm a bit puzzled by your 4227 results, may be worth a try with a magnum (or different) primer as well.

[Nueces]

This is pretty much what Paco Kelly came up with many years ago, as a levergun upgrade for the 32-20. His interest was higher performance. I have his original reamer, which shows a similar long neck. It's a very neat round.

[Digital Dan]

10-4 on the neck also keeping the tail out of the fire. More twist and more Boolit in future experimental thoughts? Familiar with a little round called the 32 Miller?

No more twist, the Brooks bullet is the only one I'll use with this project. I do have familiarity with the .32 Miller. Fella name Jack O. handed me my backside at a competition several years back using one of those little terrors. :bigsmyl2:

I was likewise puzzled about the experience with 4227, but it is what it is. When the project gets a bit further down the road I'll be testing a few other aspects, to include a change in primers among other things. Past experience tells me it should work, but so far it has been disappointing. For that matter, 4759 ought to work as well....as a friend recently said however, the best curve is a learning curve.

To alleviate any potential misconception about my purpose, the ultimate application will be for feral hog eradication programs managed by the Florida Dept of Environmental Protection w/ my Contender with cast bullets at subsonic velocity. No other consideration was given to the application or use of the cartridge. Been doing if for quite a spell with .22 RF due to their concerns about noise. When the state legalized hunting with suppressors last November it opened the door to an upgrade.

Dan

[Digital Dan]

I'm predicting a few surprises at the 100 yd line .

I predict there will be no surprises at the 100 yard line. What I'm seeing at present indicates something in excess of 2" groups without factoring wind effects. It may not be obvious based on the few images posted of targets, but there are plain indications of vertical stringing. In part that is due to velocity variations. There is also a minor hitch in the forearm installation that will require glass bedding before it is resolved. Have been down this road a great many times with other arms and recognize a sign when I see it. I'm fairly muleheaded about dealing with one thing at a time. Sometimes the prize is behind door #1 but usually not.

Even a .12" group of 3 was a vertical string...oh the horrors!

[Digital Dan]

I'm thinking that the bulk of load experiments are concluded for the most part. Day 5 at the range today was another learning experience, not only for what happened, but what did not happen.

Was a clear coolish day by Florida standards. Light frost this morning and it had warmed to the mid 30s by the time I hit the line. Unusually calm of a change, very sunny. Took along the accouterments which included a second chance for IMR4227 and SR4759, including the use of mag primers in a couple of strings. Also did a little change up with the Li'l Gun loads in that I did not size the bullets prior to loading. They cast at .310" and I'd been sizing to .309", but a sage out west suggested I try not sizing, so there you have it. 2 strings of 5 for the Lil Gun, one with the case unsized prior to loading, the other neck sized per previous practice.

2 Loads of SR4759 of the same charge, one w/standard SRP (WW SRP), the other with mag primers (CCI450). 4 loads of IMR4227 in an attempt to rathchet up velocity, with intent to find more consistent ES numbers as well as precision and cleaner burn for both powders. I was successful in both departments.

Mixed results were my reward. The ES number were reduced, but not by use of mag primers. Increasing powder charge did that and I actually had a drop in velocity with the SR4759 using the mag primers. It increased slightly with the 4227, but it was a very small single digit increment, not statistically significant in my book.

In order of firing:

Li'l Gun
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/1_zpsceatjh6y.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/1_zpsceatjh6y.jpg.html)

SR4759
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/3_zps4jojljiu.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/3_zps4jojljiu.jpg.html)

IMR4227
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/7_zpslenuxzyc.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/7_zpslenuxzyc.jpg.html)

These groups are a little bit larger than the previous that I've posted. It was either because I was shivering or maybe because it was on the 100 yard line, who knows? I was parked beside a fellow shooting a full race 6mm PPC and he beat me fair and square. That said, the journey is not quite over, but I'm confident that the pigs are scared. Will be changing sights and do additional load workup on a more leisurely schedule down the road. Li'l Gun for now, zero with the muffler and hit the woods.

Dan

[Digital Dan]

Time to get down to business I guess. Took the Leupold 2.5X compact off and replaced it with a Millet SP-1 red dot, went to the range and zeroed.

I was pleased to see the average group size hold together with the dot sight. Started with a couple of groups at 25 yards, then moved to the 50. About 3/4" with a 3 MOA dot is fairly consistent with other guns I've used them on and that's what I got. At least until I put the can on. It is common to have a shift in POI with one installed but I was a bit surprised by how much for this rig. POI went down 6" and right 1".

Wow....thought I'd missed the entire target board at first. Nonetheless, once the dial was cranked it came back up to where it belonged. Mystery I won't worry about much actually, it isn't likely I will shoot the gun much w/o the suppressor. Load was 6.4 gr. Li'l Gun, Dan's special mystery wax lube, nominal MV of 1025 fps. Two groups @ 50 w/o the suppressor averaged .86" and two with averaged .55", 3 shots each.

I've done a bit of examination with some ballistic software and find the consensus is that the bullet BC is ~.399 at the velocity I'm using. Zeroed 1/2" high at 50 yards gives fair close to dead on at 60 and close enough to .25-.7" high at 10 yard intervals starting at 20 yards. 90% of my shots at critters in this AO are inside of 30 yards, more often less than 20.

For anyone that is interested, the report is very muted. It sounds about like a medium soft cough or a....muffled sneeze. You know I had to say that, right?

A bullet recovered today from damp sand actually gained a 1/2 grain of weight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/Damp%20sand_zpssvbpn50l.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/Damp%20sand_zpssvbpn50l.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/Damp%20Sand2_zps5pq6kyma.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/Damp%20Sand2_zps5pq6kyma.jpg.html)

I'm good to go.