PDA

View Full Version : How to tame that beat up old mold



MBTcustom
12-30-2015, 01:15 AM
So here I have a beat up old mold that I traded for here on the forum. I have heard this is a fairly good bullet design, but this mold looks like five miles of bad country road, and casts like it too.
156788
156789
156790
Yeah, it's pretty bad.
Here are the problems that required a solution:
1. The mold blocks were not lined up. This could have been caused by the previous owner's propensity for opening the mold and tapping it on the blocks with a ball peen hammer or equivalent.
2. The bullets dropped were of the old style gas check shank, and thus, were too large to accept a modern crimp-on gas check.
3. The bullets cast of my House alloy were too small.
4. The internal finish of the mold was like the surface of the moon. Undoubtedly the previous owner also was under the common misconception that "smoking" the mold with a match or some such does some earthly good (goes right along with the ball peen hammer IMHO) and when the mold rusted, it was not even, and the soot probably helped hold the moisture longer than usual.
5. The bullets were a bear to get out of the mold when casting.

So I decided to "Leement" (or perhaps Lyment?) the mold by lapping it, and I thought some might find this process helpful. In the following description, you will see me reference my lathe and it's use in this process. The lathe makes it easier, and I use it because it's available, but an enterprising individual will find that a drill press and a file works just as well if you put your mind too it.

I started by getting the mold heated to operating temperature and casting a few bullets that were then measured with a micrometer. The sizes obtained were .4559 X .4581
156791
156792
It is important to measure what you have before you go changing something so that you know how much you changed it.
I also measured the gas check shank and found it was already too big, so I wanted to even it out and make it round but nothing past that. The gas check shank measured .433 while the Hornady checks measured .427 ID.

I took a bullet from the few that I cast, and I put it in the lathe and drilled it with a #7 size drill bit, which is the tap drill size for a 1/4-20 thread. I drilled it about 3/8" deep.
156793
Then, I put the drilled bullet in the mold and clamped tightly in order to hold it while I tapped the hole with a 1/4-20 HSS tap.
156794
Then a 1/4-20 X 2.5" socket head bolt was screwed into the threads, lapping compound was added to the mold, and the bolt was driven with a DeWalt cordless drill till it was spinning freely in the cavity when the mold handles were held firmly.
156795

The mold was then cleaned with carburetor cleaner, heated up by dipping the corner in the molten lead, and cast with till good consistent bullets were falling out of it ( I noticed emediately that problem #5 was corrected, as the bullets fell from the mold when it was opened.)
The bullets were swished in a cup of water with forceps to cool them and measurements were made. I was happy with the roundness of the gas check shank, but the driving bands were still too small, so I made another lap from one of the bullets I just cast, only this time, I turned off the GC shank so that it would not be enlarged any more.
156796

The new lap was prepared in the same way as the previous one and it was used again to lap only the nose and the driving bands.
156797

The mold was cleaned again, and was cast with a third time. This time the smallest diameter of the bullet could be measured at .4575 and the largest was .4587

MBTcustom
12-30-2015, 01:24 AM
Like so:
156798

156799

The bullets were then pushed through my .4580 sizer (groove diameter for my rife is .4570) and I confirmed that I had 99% clean wipe down the driving bands, which I did. Two laps solved problems #1, #3 and #4.

This left only the oversize gas check shank to deal with.
Well they say if you can't bring Mohamed to the mountain, then bring the mountain to Mohamed. I simply made a mandrel that fit in my drill chuck that would swage the checks open and allow them to fit over the GC shank of the bullets.
156800

The rest was history:
156801
156802

aspangler
12-30-2015, 01:32 AM
Ain't it wonderful what you can do with a lathe? LOL Couldn't get along without my old Southbend. Great job and good to see a mold back in use. I would like to have one like that for my 45-70. Thanks for the post and the pics.

Catshooter
12-30-2015, 02:47 AM
Nice write up Tim, thank you.

A tip you might find useful that I learned here is to get the sprue plate out of the way, place a 3/8 nut over the boolit cavity and pour both full. When it cools, you can use a 9/16 socket to turn the lap. Seems to work for me.


Cat

Larry Gibson
12-30-2015, 09:43 AM
Excellent post on bringing an old abused Lyman mould back to life. Excellent way to "customize" a Lyman mould (or any make of mould for that matter) to fit your rifle with the alloy you are using.

Someday someone will find that mould in a pawn shop and cast some bullets with #2 alloy (the alloy it was cut originally for) and probably complain here about Lyman's casting to large........:bigsmyl2:

Larry Gibson

WHITETAIL
12-30-2015, 10:29 AM
Good job, It is surprising what a little care can make.:cbpour:

MrWolf
12-30-2015, 10:53 AM
Nice write up Tim. Interesting to see how folks who know what they are doing tackle problems.

bedbugbilly
12-30-2015, 12:25 PM
Great post and great photos! It's nice when you can bring something back to life that most folks would have "written off".

And I agree . . . it's nice when a person has a lathe and the tools to do it I don't have access to a lather or mill anymore and they would sure come in handy once in a while!

Thanks for sharing! Great job!

MBTcustom
12-30-2015, 12:38 PM
You can do everything I just did with a drill press, and many have done it. Look up Leementing in the stickies. You'll see very well how to do this. I think you could do it with nothing but a hand drill as well.
The last thing I wanted was for people to see the lathe and say "oh well that means I can't do that". This is not true.

toallmy
12-30-2015, 01:01 PM
[smilie=w:I picked up a abused rcbs 158 -150 kt swc a wile back , and with the stickeys got it casting nice 38-357 swc . Cleaned up plate and blocks broke the edges and it is now a pleasure to cast with. With a little TCL you can get a lot fixed up on a abused mold. Thanks for reminding ,and showing US it can be done. Now I am going to find a beat up mold and try lementing it.

Maven
12-30-2015, 01:19 PM
Excellent tutorial, Tim!

longbow
12-30-2015, 01:38 PM
Great post Tim!

I have lapped several moulds successfully and one not very successfully. I find that taking out more than about 0.002" starts to be work. up to that point it is easy going even with an iron mould if you take your time and clean the mould often then check progress. If you are removing more than a couple thou there seems to be a tendency for the mould to go oval which I think is due to lapping grit getting between mould halves holding them open a bit. However, frequent cleaning, checking, lapping as required, repeat works very well and you are right, a lathe is not required at all. A lathe makes things a bit easier but certainly is not required.

We have a really good write up on lapping in CastPics too:

http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/the-library/moulds/23-modifying-molds/254-mold-lapping

This would be the method Catshooter referred to.

I use this method when I am basically Lee-menting or Ly-menting... just removing some minor imperfections.

I go to the drill method when the need is to enlarge diameter a bit. I will also warn that if lapping an aluminum mould that you should go slowly and carefully if using an electric drill. Aluminum removal can be very quick where iron takes some time. You can over shoot with iron moulds too, it is just a little harder.

This is a great way to get a custom fitting boolit from a mould that might otherwise be scrap (to you anyway).

As for Larry's comment about #2 alloy, I certainly won't disagree as Lyman does state that cast size is based on using #2 alloy. However, most of us use wheelweights or range scrap for most shooting and most of us size so if the mould cast a thou or two oversize the boolits could be used as cast for oversize bores or sized down a thou or two to suit dimensionally correct bores, and the mould would be usable with #2 alloy as well as "other" alloys. Just saying.

I am very partial to my Lyman moulds and personally I like iron moulds the best. The ones I have cast to the diameters I want but I do wish Lyman would would offer moulds just a thou or two larger for those that want them.

Longbow

Victor N TN
12-30-2015, 03:38 PM
Tim,

Very good photos and instructions. When I get able, I have a H&G 38 cal 6 or 8 cavity wadcutter mold I need to pay attention to.

Thanks for the help.

kevmc
12-30-2015, 09:53 PM
excellent post Tim!!
Thanks!

Hardcast416taylor
12-30-2015, 11:55 PM
A few years back I became the owner of a RCBS 357-162 GC mold. The previous owner I`ve come to the opinion about didn`t care about what he did to the vent lines on the mold halves. Any suggestions about what I might do to fix this mold?Robert

country gent
12-31-2015, 12:13 AM
The only thing I do diffrent is I drill the hole for 1/8" key stock and glue that in the hole.I can then use a t handle tap handle to hand drive the lap in the back and forth rotating manner. I have laped several moulds and removed dings for severalm members on this site. Its not hard to do and is one of those areas where patientce is king. Great How to GoodSteel

MBTcustom
12-31-2015, 12:45 AM
I actually thought about that country gent, but I didn't want to wait for glue to dry. I dole out my patience very sparingly. LOL!

str8shot426
12-31-2015, 01:10 AM
Agree with the lathe comment. Surprising what you can accomplish with basic tools and ingenuity.
Master the file, and you are 1/2 way there.