pedersoli 1886 sporting rifle

[RICKLANDES]

I took delivery of this rifle after a six month building period I ordered it in June). I believe it is one of ten now in the US. It is a beautiful piece. I am trying some 405 rcbs gc some Lyman 457643 lever action bullets, some lee 350's and some Gould's 457122. I am just playing with what worked in my CB or Sharps rifle. My initial impressions are this will be a wonderful rifle. I am trying fun loads at 50 yards and a few at 100; nothing too much at this time. Loads have been with unique from 12 to about 18 grains. The rcbs gc seems the tightest groups, which is not too surprising.

The barrel is much thicker than the CB and will unless I am all wet, be a better shooter. I have yet to run a jacketed or BP load through it but these tests are on the docket. I really am just after a nice familiarization period before getting down to the business at hand.

I tried the 457643 for deer, but none showed up to co-operate with my tests. :(

I am considering changing the sights as the buckhorn ramped rear and the brass front are large compared to my bulls-eyes, but nevertheless will prove great for hunting. I have looked at the original flip up Winchester style. I am not too willing to drill and tap the tang nor barrel. I may just fabricate a dovetail setup of my own making using a thinner coin silver blade on the front.

I am having a bit of key-holing with the 457643. I am thinking it is a low speed issue in that the base may not be upsetting enough to give a good seal. Other bullets have worked just fine. I have tried no 3031, 5477, RL7 etc but that will come in time. I also have not chronyed anything yet.

I am trying some as cast bullets coated with the Johnson's one step and Alox mix. These seem to be working well.

I thought folks might appreciate a quick over view of the rifle and what is up thus far. Happy New Year to all.

[NSB]

What's the difference between this gun and the Pedersoli 86/71 Cabela's has been selling for the last five years or so?

[RICKLANDES]

rather than me repeat the info, check here http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_91/rifles-model-1886-lever-action.html

I have not compared them.

[salvadore]

Wow RICKLANDES that's a purty shooter. Is yours as nice as the one on the website? Smith Interprise use to make nice ladder sight

[RICKLANDES]

Yes it really is a nice piece of eye candy. Mine has a stock that looks like tiger eye stripes. I was most impressed with the checkering. It is perfect, and I am fussy about that. I thought I came across a smith ladder in my searches, but now have forgotten where. The web site shows no 1886 sights (that I saw). Here was the smith
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,231.html

[salvadore]

I got mine from Brownells a while back.

[NSB]

rather than me repeat the info, check here http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_91/rifles-model-1886-lever-action.html

I have not compared them.
Looks to be the same gun with the differences being oct barrel vs round and checkering vs no checkering. I had two of them and neither one would cycle or work. I hope the version you have is an improved quality model. I was lucky that Cabela's took them both back and gave me a full refund. At that time, two years ago, the only North American repair center was in Kansas and the only authorized repair person lived in Missouri and went there a couple of times a year to work on them. I hope Pedersoli has gotten their act together since then. They look great though.

[bigbore52]

Ricklandes.

Had the same rifle for 6 months now and put numerous loads in it as well.....might be difficult to give you powder weights I use due to only using ADI powders here in Oz .....but I found the rifle prefers a 430 gn FN from a CBE mould here's the link to David's site http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/bullet-moulds/rifle/458-calibre?Page=3&Items=12 - I cast mine 20:1 and they weigh out at 419 gns with a BHN of 14...

Depending on how fast you want to fling the lead out as to whether you need to use the checked or plain base mould. For plinking or BP then the plain base cast is all you need.

Early on I did try for speed with my plain base casts and got some leading which was easy enough to remove but that gave me a reference point to work from - since then I've put many rounds of the plain base with AR2207 starting at 28 gns and keeping it less than 1500fps and found it to be consistent right out of the box - the only issue I had being the grouping 4" to the right at 100 yards with the sights so I moved the front sight to suit me and now it's spot on. Like you, I may change the sights at some stage as I find them hard to use with my poor eyesight these days....not withstanding, it is extremely accurate and easy to use but take care with the ejected cases as you've probably found the top ejection gives them a tendency to drop down open shirts and singe our well honed 6 packs a tad :)

I occasionally use Trail Boss with good accuracy.....its a mild load and you can shoot it all day without effort.....

I lube all my casts irrespective of how fast I am driving them and it handles BP just as well but given it's action does take more of an effort to clean - I tend not to use BP in it as much but that's just me being lazy....as yet I have not used jacketed pills over BP but could see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Of the jacketed projectiles I have tried in it and that would be some 5 different types ....I think it prefers weights of around the 410 gns as they seemed more consistent to me....again I qualify that by adding I only use ADI powders in it aside from occasional BP


A word of caution though, be careful using Hornady LE cases on the reload due to them being shorter than normal 45/70 brass - they feed and chamber OK but reloading them is an issue with the shorter cases...my preference is Starline,...enjoy it.... it's a great rifle........ Lee

[RICKLANDES]

BigBore52...I think your bullet weight is interesting as I am hovering around 413 gr with the rcbs gc and about 422 with the lyman 457643. I do not see me using this as anything fast and loud, but rather a fun target shooter. 1100 to about 1300 is probably about where I will settle in with this.
I do have a Marlin CB that loves 500 grain round "nosers" (single loaded). I may try those with this rifle. I agree with the BP clean-up. I hardly have time to shoot and cleaning up for an extended period is not high on the list.

I have had no operational issues. I tend to single load or run just a few while developing loads anyway. If this rifle is as most I will develop some sound loads and move to a new task. The week this new "Ped" came in I had just finished rebuilding an Ithaca Model 49r 22 and the week after was a going thru of a colt Anaconda...

With your rifle did you find any keyholing issues with softer alloys at your high velocities? I experienced a bit of that with the Lyman 457643 at straight WW hardness levels.

Thanks for the personal overview. You velocity data and bullet wts may save me some effort for which I am grateful. :)

I tend to not use any of the Hornaday cases. I do use their products, they have been a good company to work with, but I personally really dislike having a slightly shorter case or cases along with regular lengths in my possession. Same goes for the 500 smith cases that are shortened. I was not about to cut full length cases to a shorter length to try hand crafting a load for a given bullet. Just not my cup of tea. Probably because I am a card carrying professional tightwad...cannot see those cases changed to unusable for any other bullet...(Dad used to say I squeeked when I walk...)

I use starline too. They are a great company and have excellent customer service. I had an issue with 500 45-70 cases I had gotten that were splitting on first or second loading (with a mid-range load). Starline fixed the problem immediately.

[bigbore52]

Ricklandes....I mentioned I have tried several different weighted projectiles - all basically at trapdoor loads but never experienced any key holing through my Pedersoli.... It's an issue I have encountered unfortunately in other calibers such as 224 when trying to work up cast loads for Francotte and BSA barrels actions so from my experience, I would suggest you try several things first off to see if you can nail the cause without stressing too much.

I think you can discount the rifling as Pedersoli cut them all to the same specs......but I'd recommend you get one of those bore cameras off Fleabay for less that $10...they are a great asset and will let you check your rifling...they come in various sizes and will even fit 224 barrels...well worth getting.......I wouldn't be at all surprised if you identified some leading in your barrel if you are experiencing key holing...it's a distinct possibility

Firstly, I would look at the length of the projectile you are using...bear in mind with that gun they will need to be FN to chamber feed but equally the weight of the pill over it's given length causes most key holing in my experience. It's how that pill is stabilised from the throat down the rifling which you need to look at.

Secondly the charge you put behind the pill will change the ballistics of it. If the pill is too light along with the charge, then that can also lead to instability - stick with one load of powder be it BP or other and keep that as standard in all your testing

I mentioned I initially encountered leading but that was with pills I used not being lubed...all the other factors were the same...that was my fault when I tried that to establish a reference to see what I could use before problems started - but they did not keyhole and accuracy wasn't that bad to be truthful....but then I only fired 10 rounds not lubed through it. I don't know the BHN of the other casts I used but mine were 14 and they caused leading when not lubed - the cast pills I make are all at 20:1 Pb:Sn...I buy pure metals and don't recycle anymore.....it's easier for me to source metal from the foundry nearby and I get good rates.

I'd be more inclined to think your pills are not heavy enough for the charge used to prevent key holing so experiment with some heavier ones with the same charge to see how they go......I tried to load heavier postell pills through it as I load those in my 45/120 but they were too long for the action to cycle them so then I grabbed various FN pills from friends and put them through, that's how I got different weights - I did lube all the cast pills but not the jacketed ones...think the lightest cast was 320 gn ..the heaviest about 500gns them ....they all worked without issue....I couldn't tell you which proved more accurate as using open sights at 200 - I'm stoked enough they all printed on target. But I am a fan of the 430 mould....it has extra lube grooves and in all the rounds I've put thorough it so far, worked without a hitch.

Lastly, could I suggest you drop David an email at CBE and explain your problem to him..I've found him to be a very knowledgeable and helpful chap....he may have some suggestions for you?

There has been many comments about the different brass and peoples preferences but I've had no issue with Starline - I annealed them all first up and regularly say every 6th load or so and would now be onto my 20th reload for most and not a split or fracture so far....perhaps I may over anneal compared to some but ....bear in mind I am not loading them hot and that helps no doubt....hope you sort it out, it's a great rifle to have and good shooting...all the best

[Wayne Smith]

"It is also drilled and tapped to assemble the arperture bolt sight"? I'm not sure what the 'bolt sight' is, but, given your initial post, you should not have to drill and tap?

[peter72]

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-accessorio.asp/l_en/idpr_421/pre_0/accessories-creedmoors-bolt-creedmoor-sight.html

[RICKLANDES]

"It is also drilled and tapped to assemble the arperture bolt sight"? I'm not sure what the 'bolt sight' is, but, given your initial post, you should not have to drill and tap?

Peter72 this sight is for a S740, the model I am working with is a S738

The tang is NOT drilled for tang style rear sights.

I think some of my sighting is just a bit of age and need to develop a good load for the rifle. (maybe next time on the range I will keep my eyes open :)) I could try some factory loads but that is generally against my better judgement.

BigBore52. I spent a good deal of time last night with the alloy adding some additional tin and lino to the mix to get a harder alloy. I feel I maybe running the given bullet out too fast for the alloy (It is about 12 BNH). I had the same thing happen with my 45-120 with the postell load at 1-20 pb/sn.

With reference to the 45-120 are you using a grease cookie above the BP load/below the bullet base? I find those extra long cases need extra lube to perform correct.

I agree with the annealing. I had just re-read an older Mike Venterino article and he said he annealed every time and he did see his scores move up/improve.

I anneal by putting a small propane torch in a vise. I hold the case by the base with bare fingers and quickly rotate the case mouth to upper 1/3 of case in the flame and drop it into a bucket of water when I see a faint glow (blackish/cherry?). I turn the light off in my work area when doing this so as to not over heat the brass and chrystallize the grain structure. The fingers make dang sure I do not overheat the case head.

I checked the fleabay camera. I am guessing this hooks to the USB and supplies a live feed to the computer of whatever is in front of the lens? I am wondering if you have a specific smaller lense model you might suggest?

[bigbore52]

RICKLANDES,

I drop my casts into a bucket of cold water as have found that hardens them a bit more but I believe they will actually harden further over time but I've not tested that as yet.

Regarding the Sharps 45/120, I only use BP in that (depending on how many weeties I've had for breakfast that is or what distance I am shooting)... I do not use a separate lube cookie rather load it up with the BP I select - (normally between 90-110 gns of FFg or 1 1/12 swiss)...the Postell cast has plenty of lube grooves in it as with the CBE cast I use for the 45/70 which mean you don't need to add a separate lube cookie.....its a matter of preference and how accurate it is - with or without lube cookie but I think you can over lube a case and often that's not necessary........I use felt wads to take up the space behind the lubed Postell pill on top....I find there is enough slight compression taken up with the felt or I use a different wad thickness to ensure the pill slightly compresses the powder and is seated to a specific depth....by doing that I don't need to use spacer cards as the felt is impervious to any lube and is quite dense but it will compress slightly so no need for separate spacers. It means you need to calculate the gap plus the compression amount based on the powder used and the length of the pill....felt wad(s) take up that space perfectly. I buy sheets of the original felt from the UK in various thicknesses - sheets are about a foot square but interestingly the felt is the original felt recipe made by the same company in the same town in Yorkshire - still going this day 100+ years later and as I also load the 577/450, it's quite surreal to think I am using the same felt made by the same company....I stamp out what I need from the various thickness sheets I order and use it in all my BP loads...

Use the same process in the 45/70 for BP but I do not use felt for non BP loads.

Only use BP in the 45/120 and the 577/450 and do not use separate lube cookies

There are various posts here about what borescope is appropriate but I chose the 5.5mm diameter one so I could use it on my 224 bores as well...I bought it primarily for the samll bores but it works just as well on nall my 45's. It plugs straight into your pooter or laptop via usb and can also be run from your smart phone...it comes with a CD to load the program in and you can either take stills or movies as you feed it down the bore and if you have a stray cat nearby to practice on, possibilities are endless :) ......I run Windoze10 on my laptop at the range and was concerned it may not work as it came setup for W8 but you can download appropriate free software to run in that OS as I did....think mine cost less than $10 with free postage and I reckon it paid for itself the first use....think it comes with 7 metres of cable.......yup, I'm a convert to them....do a search here for various reviews with links etc. If you need specifics drop me a PM and I'll send you the link where I got mine - as they are powered from the USB connection, to run it from your smart phone may limit the amount of time it will work but off a laptop mine runs for several hours without draining the battery much.... I've not plugged it in to the Iphone so don't know how well but given the resolution of the image, imagine it looks better on a laptop screen than smartphone

To anneal, I make steel holders bored to each case and then run that in a cordless drill at low speed with a case fitted so it rotates the case while I use a propane torch to slightly heat the right area...once done I then drop the case into a bucket of cold water and put another one in...having a lathe means I can make them for all my different cases but have read how some actually use spark plug sockets..reckon they would have to cut them at the correct length...but that'd work also if you can't access a lathe. Remember the less heat you apply the better but there's a sweet spot which can be hard to judge without experience... Brownells and others sell a tempilac which indicates when the correct temperature...that will show you when the heat is correct by changing from yellow to clear so you only need to use it a few times first up then you know what
the correct heat colour is......156940156941 hopefully a couple of pics come through to show you what I mean....one has the 577/450 case fitted, the other is for the 45/120