2nd attempt powder coat... Moderate success!

[exdxgxe4life]

If you care to know the history of the process I went through check out this thread... http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?286371-1st-attempt-at-powder-coat-fail&p=3357005#post3357005

So after months of frustration and really not touching the powder coating process, I decided to give it another go round.

Lessons learned from last experience... The "higher quality" Powder Coat I had been using just simply did not work. So I made a trip to Harbor freight and bought the plain Jane red that I know others have had success with.

Well here are the results...
156678
156679


The 9mm bullet all the way to the right was done with my previous powder. Every thing else is with Harbor freight red using a tumbler for 15 minutes.

My current issue is how do I get a more even coat? I have coverage throughout, but some thin spots and some thick. Does it even matter?

Next batch I'm going to try plastic bbs. Any advice?

[Silverboolit]

HF red is epoxy based powder coat. I have used it with moderate success. I now use a polyester based powder coat and am having much better luck. The polyester seems to coat more evenly and I don't use the BB's anymore. Just a few swirls in a cool whip container and into the oven.

[bangerjim]

Sorry you are having such bad luck.

I get 100% coverage with the following....try it:

ZipLok screw-on lid containers #5
BLACK airsoft BB's - - -3 layers in the bottom
1 teaspoon of HF red
30-50 boolits at a time
Swirl HARD 20-30 seconds
Shake up & down HARD HARD for 10-12 seconds
Pick up with hemostats (the best)
Sit on racks covered with Al roof flashing (for flat surface) with NSAF over that
Bake ONLY 400F for 10 min (after powder turns shiny)

Works for me......every single time.

Some will tell you they use this and that. Or do it this way or that way. The above works for me!!!

Period.

HF red works perfectly. Smoke's powders work even better!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humidity can and WILL cause you problems. Your boolits on the right look like ones I did a couple summers ago when our RH was >55%. We have VERY low RH's here in the AZ SW Desert. West Texas is fairly arid also. WI can be humid!

Put dessicant drier packs in your powder when stored.

Make sure your boolits are clean.

Keep trying. It took me several months and MANY tries to get BBDT to work for me. I was an ESPC only guy at first and now use them about 50/50. I have 2 ESPC guns for spraying and over 10 BBDT bowls for swirling.

Good luck!

bangerjim

[lead-1]

bangerjim, what is NSAF?

"Sit on racks covered with Al roof flashing (for flat surface) with NSAF over that"

[sigep1764]

Maybe non stick aluminum foil?

[lead-1]

That would make sense, thanks.

[bangerjim]

Read the sticky about all the abbreviations and acronyms we use on here about ALL types of loading and making things that go bang. Worlds of info for 'ya!!!!!!!!!

All will be revealed! The search engine (white box at top right) is your "leeeeeetle friend".

banger

[Petro58]

After many Failed attempts at the Shake & Bake method's, White BB's, Black BB's, Regular BB's, Zip Lock Bags, Snap Containers, Screw Containers, In the Tumbler, Dance Moves, Over the Head, Under the Arm, Toss in the Air, and NO SUCCESS. Using Harbor Freight RED, Yellow, Black, White. Anyway I gave up on the Shake & Bake and bought the Harbor Freight Powder Coat Kit. Perfect everytime now. Just my Opinion. All you guys that Shake and Bake more Power To Ya, and glad it works for you. Maybe it's the humidity in my area or whatever. On the Upside the Grand Kids and their friends were glad to get all the unused BB's. :bigsmyl2:

[bangerjim]

After many Failed attempts at the Shake & Bake method's, White BB's, Black BB's, Regular BB's, Zip Lock Bags, Snap Containers, Screw Containers, In the Tumbler, Dance Moves, Over the Head, Under the Arm, Toss in the Air, and NO SUCCESS. Using Harbor Freight RED, Yellow, Black, White. Anyway I gave up on the Shake & Bake and bought the Harbor Freight Powder Coat Kit. Perfect everytime now. Just my Opinion. All you guys that Shake and Bake more Power To Ya, and glad it works for you. Maybe it's the humidity in my area or whatever. On the Upside the Grand Kids and their friends were glad to get all the unused BB's. :bigsmyl2:

Yes..........it probably is your humidity in that neck of the woods!

I do both with excellent luck, but my dew points are generally very VERY low. My worst day is probably your best day for lower RH!

ESPC will work in a rainstorm....I have tried it! Just do it inside or the powder washes off! HA....ha.

[Landshark9025]

FWIW, I had poor luck with HF Red (Southeast Florida aka "North Cuba") but made two changes:
1. Switched to Smoke's powder
2. Switched container to a small, round Gladware container. Holds 12oz of liquid. I found it is easier to shake and keep the lid on with one hand and can put about 50 358-125RFs in at a time. First shake and I can pick out about 25-40, one more quick shake gets me the rest.

Using three trays, I can load one with 50-75 while one is baking and one is cooling. Should be able to get 250 bullets an hour done. Maybe more when I get better at it and move to hemostats from needle nose pliers.

This became the wife's Christmas present:
156749

Oh, and I did it in a shed, next to the door, WHILE IT WAS RAINING! lol.

[bangerjim]

If you have been reading and following the many threads on PC'ing over the past several years as I have, it becomes rapidly apparent there is no "set rules" for BBDT! As I have said many times B4, it is a voodoo black magic trick discovered by folks on here. The very tiny triboelectric differential static charge allows the powder to stick to the lead. But that teeny charge is many times extremely difficult to control or even generate in different environments.

Yes, good coating......is determined by:

number of BB's
alloy of said BB's
no BB's at all
using metal BB's
type of plastic bowl
size of plastic bowl
shape of bowl
using a glass container
brand of powder
chemical make-up of powder
RH of environment
swirl time
swirl speed
shake time
shake velocity
Just dump only
pic-n-set with hemos
pic-n-set with plastic gloves
pic-n-set with tweezers
temperature of environment
preheating boolits
not preheating boolits
cleaning boolits with solvents
not cleaning boolits with solvents
using fresh just-cast boolits
storing uncoated boolits in air-tite containers
clean hands
clean sizing dies
water dropping in clean water
not water dropping
one coat
two coats
three coats
bake for 10 minutes
bake for 20 minutes
Use 400F.......or not
Convection oven
standard oven
PID in oven
use NSAF
use hardware cloth only
use parchment paper
phase of the moon
holding your mouth just right
number of hail Mary's
rubbing the bowl on the cat to increase static

........."and the beat goes on"........ Per Sonny & Cher.

Everyone doing BBDT has to dedicate some personal time and effort to finding just that right combo of things that lead to acceptable coating. Again: there is NO FIXED SET OF RULES to get acceptable results. And that word "acceptable" is up to the person. What is fine for one may not meet my quality needs.

Keep at it and have fun. Do not give up.........it CAN be done. Thousands have proved it!


bangerjim

[Landshark9025]

Yeah, and I would just add, don't get discouraged by BangerJim's previous post. I let that happen to me on posts from other people who's attempts to inform on the myriad of variables made me think there was no way I was going to get it to work because I was going to leave out some magical step that only applied in my particular GPS coordinates on a given day. There's really a limited number of things that can happen. Either:
1. You get good coverage
2. You don't

If you do, it either:
1. Shoots without leading
2. It doesn't

If it shoots with out leading, it either
1. Is accurate
2. Or not

If the first pairing is right, the second and third seem likely to be. BUT PC is not a substitute for a brass jacket. You still need fit and some basic other stuff of cast booliteering.

Try it, figure out what to do to get good coverage with one coat, and go from there. Like traditional lubed boolits.....you can still melt down the mistakes.

[fredj338]

HF red has worked great for me using shake & bake, green ASBB, #5 plastic. 30-45sec of swirl & shake, bake 15m & done. Smokes powders are better still, same method.

[bedbugbilly]

I think they are looking good! I'm old and as they say . . "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". But I have to admit, I've been reading a little more on here about the PC and am getting interested in maybe trying it in the spring when I have the time. Now . . . if I can just get my wife to leave the house long enough to use her oven! :-)

I hope you'll post more on how it is going for you as I have been following and it just gets me more interested in trying it out!

[Landshark9025]

Now . . . if I can just get my wife to leave the house long enough to use her oven! :-)


This would be the part where 17 people chime in saying not to use an oven that you intend to cook in ever again and BBB defends himself saying it was a joke and all should lighten up. :razz:

[bangerjim]

By using the "smiley face", all legal ramifications are nullified!

HA......ha

banger

[Pablo 5959]

Here's my first try about 2 years ago.
Didn't want to spend $ on an oven unless I could get it to work.
http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u543/Pablo5959/imagejpg2_zpsa52554a3.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/Pablo5959/media/imagejpg2_zpsa52554a3.jpg.html)
It worked great so my wife bought me an oven the next day.
I can't recommend using a BBQ but it did work.

You can't be far off. Keep trying, you will get it.
Pablo

[exdxgxe4life]

Thanks for all the comments. It has been frustrating, but it's the journey right...

I'm going to shoot these as is and report back. I'm only plinking with them so my only real concern is leading. Since I have coverage (albeit thin in spots) I think I'll be OK.

Thanks everyone!

[Spector]

I have successfully used ASBBDT a few times when it was raining outside. Seems easier with Smoke's powders, but was still doable with HF red. I have recently been using Smoke's Carolina Blue, John Deere Green, Flame Red and Traffic Purple. The colors look sharp, but l believe the clear coat is still the easiest to use and achieve a thin even coating. And any excess is easy to blow off of the boolits or silicone sheets. I made the mistake of using a shop vac to blow the excess off of Smoke's colored boolits and eventually got it to close. You could still she the shine from the base, but the colors looked more like a dye.. The clear is easy to blow off the excess yet still see the sheen from the polyester base.............Mike

[Petro58]

Yes..........it probably is your humidity in that neck of the woods!

I do both with excellent luck, but my dew points are generally very VERY low. My worst day is probably your best day for lower RH!

ESPC will work in a rainstorm....I have tried it! Just do it inside or the powder washes off! HA....ha.
The dance moves were killing my back, tried the Moon Walk and almost tripped over the Dog. :oops: So rather than break a hip I opted for the PC Gun Kit. I cover part of my welding table top with Non Stick Foil, Coat them put them on a Tray covered with NS Foil and bake. Use a 3" plastic putty knife, scrape the excess powder into a pile and back into the Container. But well satisfied with the Boolits! Eventually I'll try some of Smokes Powders, but we got like 3 cans of each color from HF, so it'll take a bit to use it all up.
Curious question though, seems I read that HF black has Silica in it? Bad to use ?

[bangerjim]

The dance moves were killing my back, tried the Moon Walk and almost tripped over the Dog. :oops: So rather than break a hip I opted for the PC Gun Kit. I cover part of my welding table top with Non Stick Foil, Coat them put them on a Tray covered with NS Foil and bake. Use a 3" plastic putty knife, scrape the excess powder into a pile and back into the Container. But well satisfied with the Boolits! Eventually I'll try some of Smokes Powders, but we got like 3 cans of each color from HF, so it'll take a bit to use it all up.
Curious question though, seems I read that HF black has Silica in it? Bad to use ?

Don't always believe all of what you read. There have always been doubting Thomas'. I and others on here have found no real detrimental effects with the matte black. It gives you a wider choice of color palettes. I use it straight and mixed with other powders to make some cool colors and looks!

My Dark Bing Cherry and Hershey's Milk Chocolate color coats always bring oooohs and aaaahs at the ranges. And cravings for candy!

Matte colors can only be applied easily with ESPC, the way it was designed to be applied. Some have reported multi-coat non-ESPC applications but I only use methods that require one coat only. The matte agent kills all the static in the BBDT methods.

You can do what you want, but I really like matte colors.

bangerjim

[Navy80to04]

I can't wait to try this out. I was PC steel parts, got all the stuff, but quit because my PC shop is also my work shop and the Plasma cutter was putting to much dirt in the air and it got stuck on the parts I was PC and would mess up the PC part, SO I quit PC and just put the stuff in a box in my shop. Trashed the two house ovens I had got for free and gave up PC. Well now I am Casting and now want to start back up PC. Ordered two of them baking sheets non stick silicone. Will try the shake and bake first and if not, the gun comes out of the box. and work on nonstick foil and bake on silicone. I have a LOT of Eastwood colors. Most of my Colors call for 350 not 400. and some are low temp clears.

[Walter Laich]

I am a disciple of BangerJim and have great success with his method.
I've used BBDT in the garage with the door open in the pouring rain. Work fine for me.
I use cut up silicone place mats on top of alum. sheets with great results. If you get a blob of PC on them you can 'roll' it off.

In all seriousness my biggest problem is casting enough bullets so I can PC them...such a problem :smile:

[white eagle]

coat mine with alox
works every time
even in high humidity