Citric on bullets?

[DrDucati]

Ok, so I made it through most of the citric acid sticky, and it's too unwieldy to post more questions there...

This regards the "passivation" function of the acid

1) would that protect the lead alloy bullets to keep them shiny as well? They oxidize somewhat too...

2) for protecting brass, wouldn't it be best to do my wet tumble cleaning first and then the citric bath to touch up any stubborn residue/stain? I would imagine if I wet tumble after the citric bath, it would wash off the acid and the protection is gone.

Please school me...

Added: from what I read, the passivation involves creating on oxide coating. The coating can be damaged. Do, I would think that is another way tumbling would defeat the protective effect of citric acid.

[runfiverun]

I wouldn't do boolits that way.

to preserve the passification a coat of wax is added.
if I wet tumble I add some carnuba car wax to the mix.

if I just wash the brass I add nu-finish to my dry tumblers walnut media and coat the brass and dry it in one of the tumblers.

[ioon44]

One way to keep boolits from oxidizing would be to use the Hi-Tek coating.

[toallmy]

Why are you critic washing your bullets. But on the brass I have found if I tumble with some wax added after the citric bath thay come out nicer.

[dudel]

I can see citric washing plated or FMJ (but that takes OCD to a whole new level!).

I don't see that washing Boolits in citric acid is going to do anything good. But then, my Boolits are tumble lubed, they just look like snot covered lead. There was a time I would wipe them down with an acetone rag; but it was more fun to shoot than to polish the finished rounds.

[DrDucati]

Yeah, thanks, really just curious.

[toallmy]

Onely way to find out ,

[bangerjim]

I use citric to shine up empty BRASS cases......NOT lead boolits. If you want to prevent PbO2, powder coat all your boolits. Or use HiTec coating.

I PC everything. No exposed Pb anywhere with BBDT. Only bottoms with ESPC. Read the stickies on PC'ing.

bangerjim

[Newboy]

You are making a mistake to assume that because citric acid will passivate brass, it will passivate EVERYTHING. Passivation is a quasi chemical process, where the passivating agent just has the correct size to "fit" in the molecular spaces of the base material. For instance, nickel acetate is used to passivate aluminum.

[Don Fischer]

Passivate, had to look that up. Why would you do that in the first place? I have here a box of very very old Hornady 180gr bullet's. These are easily pre 1970 as I started reloading around there and Hornady bullet's didn't look like that then. No oxidation on them. Box of Herter 6 mm bullet's, same thing. I also have a lot of FA 49 case's many with the original primer's and some Herter 6mm case's; same thing. Sometime's I think handloader's go to unnecessary extremes to get something they think is better. I have a few cast bullet's I poured maybe five years ago that have not changed appearance at all. But I need to admit I just read about putting some new finish in the tumbler. I've fooled with different things but never new finish. Seem's I've got my own bats in the belfry!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

While I don't think Citric acid will passivate a lead alloy so it retains it's shine, I'm not smart enough to explain what, you have seemingly extrapolated, will work or not work.

But, boolits with some Tin in the alloy will not oxide for a long time. So, it's not really a worry for boolits that are cast with a ternary alloy, which is what we typically use for most centerfire ammo. Now,when I cast near pure lead for muzzleloader or fishing weights, I usually add about 1/2% to 1% Tin to the lead. The added Tin will keep them shiney and keep them from oxidizing for a long time.

[waksupi]

Rinsing the metal with some dish soap in the water and let them dry will keep them shiny.

[John Boy]

1) would that protect the lead alloy bullets to keep them shiny as well? They oxidize somewhat tooYou are supposed to reload and shoot bullets - not cast them and store for long periods of time. :bigsmyl2:
Re: citric acid & brass - use it sparingly because 'acids' tarnish brass. The pH straight - 2.2. That's why I'm not a fan of citric acid
Might want to consider Strat-O-Sheen that has a pH of 6.4 (3oz in 1 gal water and a ounce of Scrubbing Bubbles). Not only does it clean cases well, with polishing media , the brass shines better than new. Store the brass in a closed container with a couple of desiccants (free from a pharmacist) - no tarnishing occurs
Example of cleaned black powder 45LC cases with a few 45-70's using Strat-O-Sheen:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Brass/Scrubbing%20Bubbles/40SampWCleanedBrass_zpsd8472a4d.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Brass/Scrubbing%20Bubbles/40SampWCleanedBrass_zpsd8472a4d.jpg.html)

[mdi]

Liquid alox, when applied to the whole bullet (tumbling), will keep bullets from tarnish/corrosion...:bigsmyl2:

[bangerjim]

There is low pH and then there is LOW pH. It all hinges on the hydrogen ion potential. (Chemistry)

Chem 101:

Citric acid is virtually harmless even at 2.2pH because the H-ion potential is low. You can eat and drink it. That is what gives fruit candy and Sweet Tarts their tangy kick. Coke (the soft drink!) also has a very low pH.....AND a low H-ion potential.

Sulfuric acid (battery acid) is also around 2pH. You do NOT want to eat and drink H2SO4 because of it extremely high H-ion potential.

Citric acid does clean brass very nicely, but you need to rinse it off or you will get darkening where the cases lay.

So, you cannot always assume just because something has a low pH number, it is a strong damaging acid, high hydrogen ion potential.

------------

I personally am in this fun hobby to cast, load, and shoot........not to spend tons of time and $$ with SST pins and worrying about if my brass looks new. Darker brass shoots just as well as shiny brass in all my guns. I have yet to find any extensive write-ups or books (like LASC) on the vows and virtues of cleaning brass to a brilliant shine!

A quick bath in VERY hot citric acid solution and I am good to go for shine.

But do what your time permits. Me........I will be out shooting and not cleaning brass.

banger

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thanks banger, for the Chem 101
hopefull that'll dispel some myths.


A quick bath in VERY hot citric acid solution and I am good to go for shine.

The only time when I use citric is, as you prescribed above...and only when I score a large batch of range brass or accumulate a large batch. No need to fire up a crock pot with a Hot citric acid bath, if I don't have several hundred (of the same caliber) old tarnished range brass to clean. Also, I generally deprime them first

[MtGun44]

Never worried about boolits tarnishing. Makes no difference at all.

[square butte]

Good lookin ammo is in style. I like it when it's purty - But pretty much just want it to go bang and hit where I want it to.

[mdi]

I'm sidin' with MtGun44 on this one. The only shiny brass I need is for my Garand that spits out empties with gusto! I have to search in the dirt, rocks and trash at the "range" I use and shiny brass is easier to find...