Ideas for a hunting boolit for a .30-06?

[Wardo1974]

This winter I'm going to tackle cast loads in my .30-06. I've never even tried to use anything but jacketed in it before, preferring to stick with cast for my .45-70s, .38-55, .44 mag, and others.

All the rifles therefore I'm used to using cast with have significantly lower velocities, so I've used the softest lead I can get away with, mostly pure when patching or powdercoating.

I'm at a loss though for the .30-06. These are my needs:

1.) It's for bear hunting, for shots out to 50 yards maximum.
2.) Maybe also deer, same distance.

For bear, the priority is massive impact that will hopefully stop the bear right there, because it's usually done in dusk conditions, and a wounded bear can easily get away into the woods where you can never find it before dark.

So super hard alloys are useless to me. It has to expand.

If so then - what alloy ratios? What bullet size? Any ideas or experience?

[runfiverun]

bear are not much tougher than a deer.
but they will run when hit unless you break down a bone, a major bone like the shoulder, spine, or the neck.
something like the rcbs 30-170 fngc made from soft and ww mixed pushed along in the 1900 fps area would do the job.
if you think you need more, increase the diameter and the weight just like they used to in the old day's.


hard to break a bone if you don't penetrate it tough

[RPRNY]

The Lyman 311284 (originally designed for the 30-40 Krag) is what I would use, sized .310 and gas checked. That's about 210 grs wheel weights and at 1700 fps will do for any deer or black bear out to 200 yards just as well as any j-bullet. Shoulder shot on Mr Bear at 50 yards and he goes nowhere. The bullet out of the Krag is death on hogs and I have used it successfully on whitetail.

The Ed Harris article on cast loads for military rifles will sort you out. Several powder options. I like 4227 but there are many options.

[ubetcha]

The Lyman 311284 (originally designed for the 30-40 Krag) is what I would use, sized .310 and gas checked. That's about 210 grs wheel weights and at 1700 fps will do for any deer or black bear out to 200 yards just as well as any j-bullet. Shoulder shot on Mr Bear at 50 yards and he goes nowhere. The bullet out of the Krag is death on hogs and I have used it successfully on whitetail.

The Ed Harris article on cast loads for military rifles will sort you out. Several powder options. I like 4227 but there are many options.

RPRNY, do you by chance have a link to Ed article?

[Blackwater]

Shot placement will be even more critical with whatever bullet you wind up with. The heavier the bullet, the more the penetration, but a good 170 or so gr. wt. bullet should kill most any bear. Here in Ga., they recently shot not one but TWO bears that went in the 850 lb. range, as big as many if not most grizzlies. For those, if there's even a chance of one coming in, I'd prefer something in the 200 gr. wt. minimum. Nobody knows when the "bull of the woods" might possibly show, and with something that CAN be dangerous in some scenarios, I'd go with the bigger bullet. You may never need it, but it's reassuring to know it's there even if you don't.

I'd also look for a big, flat point so as to maximize impact effect/shock. The heavier bullet would penetrate even the biggest bear fully, in all liklihood, but if something bad happened, you'd need penetration from ANY angle, and for that, more bullet wt. is always better. Just MHO. I know some guys who've shot them, but have never taken one myself. Have encouraged my son to take his boys up to N. Ga. on a bear hunt. It'd be sort of a rite of passage, I think? So take this from that perspective, and not from much experience. It's just based on experience with similar stuff, like killing cattle. Don't even have much experience with that, either, but it was instructive, and very interesting. I was always an onlooker, too, but stayed for the autopsies, which are always instructive and interesting.

[GhostHawk]

Seems to me that you are looking for what many of us are doing with old Mosin Nagants.

30-06 has a bit more case capacity than the 7.62x54r but seldom runs more than 2-300 fps faster.

"If it was me" I would be looking for the heaviest boolit you could find for caliber, gas checked.
Like one of those .300 blackout subsonic molds.

I would pour it with alloy about halfway between lyman #2 and pure.

I would probably load it over IMR/H 4895 around 25-30 grains at a 50 yard target and see where in that range you get the best accuracy.

If all else fails I'd be looking at the 20$ Lee .312 185 gr gas checked, run through a 309-311 sizing die.

Your mileage may vary significantly.
But that is where I would start.

[Tom W.]

A while back I got a mold from Ranch Dog that shoots really well in my #1. I believe it is a 170 gr FP TL that was designed for a lever action 30/30. 30 some grains of IMR 3031 ( look at a manual, not my befuddled memory ) and I could hit easily @ 200 yards. I also have a Lee 160 gr rn mold that I use for my 30/30 and to fire form brass in my '06 A.I. One shoots as well as the other.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Lyman 311299 202 gr. 16-18 gr of 2400.

Randy

[RPRNY]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

Harris article

311299 also good.

[tdoyka]

165gr ranch dog, actulally it weighs about 173gr. nice wide metplat and goes around 1/10 lead(12-13bhn).

it works great for my 1898 spr armory in 30-40 krag. its goes about 1800fps with h4198 and can take a deer down at 150 yards.

[Larry Gibson]

Since 50 yards is the max range and bear is the main objective then I'd look at look at the Lyman 311041 (because it usually casts 177 - 180 with the alloy Ill mention), the RCBS 30-180-FN (it usually casts 195+) and the 311299 (it casts 210+). I'd cast them of COWWs 2% tin and then mix 50/50 with lead. I would HT or WQ the bullets. After a bit of aging I would size .311 and use 2500+ of a good NRA 50/50 lube such as Lar's sells. I'd file a meplat on the 311299 or slightly HP it with the 1/8" Forster HP tool. I'd push them hard with 4350 or 4831 into the 2300 - 2400+ fps range with the goal of 3" or less accuracy at the max range of 50 yards.

Deer wil fall to that load also.

That's what I would do.

Larry Gibson

[Moonie]

Personally I'd use the NOE 247gr or the Accurate Molds 245gr copy of it, it shoots great in my 30-06.

[hanleyfan]

Personally I'd use the NOE 247gr or the Accurate Molds 245gr copy of it, it shoots great in my 30-06.
How fast are you pushing that NOE 247 gr. in your 30-06?

[Wardo1974]

Hmm. I'll be honest, I'm concerned some of these loads seem a little light...not even .30-30 levels.

Anyone here have luck with faster loads, either patched or powdercoated?

In addition, Larry, and others - what ratio of lead would be best for expansion and penetration at these velocities? I don't have WW, so it's the standard ratios I'm wondering about - 20:1, 30:1, etc.

[gwpercle]

Check out the Hunting With Cast Boolits section, some of the results shown are amazing. Good info to glean for hunting with photo's of the results..
The results with a boolit on the soft side, 50/50 wheel weight and lead mix , with and without a hollow point are something else.

[Larry Gibson]

Hmm. I'll be honest, I'm concerned some of these loads seem a little light...not even .30-30 levels.

Anyone here have luck with faster loads, either patched or powdercoated?

In addition, Larry, and others - what ratio of lead would be best for expansion and penetration at these velocities? I don't have WW, so it's the standard ratios I'm wondering about - 20:1, 30:1, etc.

A binary alloy of lead/tin is not going to withstand the acceleration forces to achieve the velocities discussed. A ternary, at least, alloy is needed. I suggest an alloy 1 1/2 % tin, 1 1/2 - 2 % antimony and the rest lead. As I mentioned the bullets should be HT'd or WQ'd. That would allow the bullets to withstand the acceleration and maintain hunting accuracy at 50 yards and allow for bullet expansion.

Larry Gibson

[Moonie]

Personally I'd use the NOE 247gr or the Accurate Molds 245gr copy of it, it shoots great in my 30-06.
How fast are you pushing that NOE 247 gr. in your 30-06?

45gr H4895 gives me 1,950fps.

[GabbyM]

I drew this one up at Accurate Molds dot com. It started on the paper as a 311284. Then I gave it the nose off an RCBS 30-180-FN. Did away with the front scraper grove and made the grease groves more shallow. After receiving advise here on the forum. It's a 220 grain thirty caliber hammer. Although I've never killed anything with it yet and not even had a chance to work it out. Idea behind the shallow groves and removing the un needed scraper grove was to make a stronger bullet body to resist pressure for a greater velocity. You should be able to push this bullet quite well at 1,925 fps. If you lived in the USA I’d send you some to test out.

Some people get all worried over a gas check below the neck. I don't.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134641&d=1426964408

[tangolima]

I tried my hands on handloading with cast bullets for 06. Not for hunting, but for target shooting.

I learned that the twist rate is a very important factor to consider. Here are the formulae I go by.

Max. bullet length

150*c^2/T

c is the bullet diameter in inch
T is the twist rate in inch/rev.

Max. muzzle velocity

53*T/c

Min. muzzle velocity

44*T/c

-TL

[Shiloh]

Saw a 311284 that was hollow pointed. Back in Colorado a few years ago. He has taken deer and Wyoming elk with it.
He said they were under 200 grs. Shot placement and confidence is the ticket.

Shiloh

[unique]

I have used the 311284 at 1700fps in 30-06 to take deer. My alloy was basic WW with a little tin added so somewhere around 14BHN. All shots were within 100yds and the deer really seem to get walloped. As someone has already stated, placement is key. The internal damage looked like a golf ball plowed thru the deer but with a lot less blood shot meat in the surrounding area.

The results are similar to the 6.5x55 sweedish mauser. It is amazing how well a 140gr jacketed bullet lumbering along at 2400fps wallops a deer. I don't quite understand it but a long-for-caliber bullet at a lazy pace really seem to work well.

[Wardo1974]

I drew this one up at Accurate Molds dot com. It started on the paper as a 311284. Then I gave it the nose off an RCBS 30-180-FN. Did away with the front scraper grove and made the grease groves more shallow. After receiving advise here on the forum. It's a 220 grain thirty caliber hammer. Although I've never killed anything with it yet and not even had a chance to work it out. Idea behind the shallow groves and removing the un needed scraper grove was to make a stronger bullet body to resist pressure for a greater velocity. You should be able to push this bullet quite well at 1,925 fps. If you lived in the USA I’d send you some to test out.

Some people get all worried over a gas check below the neck. I don't.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134641&d=1426964408

I know nothing about bullet design, but the sight of this appeals to me a lot. A big bullet with a big flat nose. In all my other hunting guns, I follow the Keith school of thinking: I like the biggest possible boolit. I use a 325 grain slug in my .44 rifle, a 265 grainer in my .38-55 and a 425 grain boolit in my .45-70.

I reason that if the cast slugs aren't going to be moving at 3,000 fps or something, then I should have them as big as I can. Plus, I like what they do when they hit a target.

And yes, I wish you were local, I'd love to try some of these out!

[GabbyM]

If I am to pack that big 06 I’m shooting the big bullet. That right there is what it comes down to.

I own smaller rifles like a Win 94 in 30-30.

[Hickok]

Just my thoughts on .30 caliber rifles, after having studied and read all I can find on this site.

Since most 30/06's and many .308's (not all .308's come with a 12" twist) have a 10" twist, and that usually hinders or makes accuracy more difficult to maintain above 1900-2000 fps with cast boolits. My thinking is go with the heavy boolits and a good B.C. and load them to the 1900-2000 fps velocity threshold or above if you get good repeatable accuracy. The high B.C. will help retain velocity down range. Though they may start out slower than the lighter faster, boolits at the muzzle, at 200 yards they will have more velocity and energy due to a higher B.C. and heavier weight.

A good 30/30 with a 12" twist can at times out do a 30/06/.308 with a 10" twist with 170-180 gr boolits as to accuracy/velocity. About like having your 454 SS Chevelle getting blown away by a 350 SS Nova!

To get ahead of the 30/30 with the larger cased 30's, the use of a heavier boolit with a high BC seems to me to be the way to go.

I have been thinking about this, because I own 3 rifles in .308 Win., and all have different twist rates.

A Remington 700 SPS .308 with a 24" barrel, 10" twist.

A Remington 700 Heavy barrel .308 with a 26" barrel, 12" twist.

A Springfield Armory M1A NM, with a 22" barrel, 11" twist, ( I think that is what it is came with).

I am going to start out shooting cast boolits in the Remington 700 SPS with a 10" twist and work on a good load for deer out to 200 yds.

Just for deer, I hope to use a 200 gr boolit, cast 50/50 ACWW/pure lead and hollow point with 1/8" bit in Forester, then GC and PC. Need to keep the striking velocity at 1450 or above at 200 yds for good expansion. I really read Larry Gibson's posts with attention and interest.

Will take any good advice and first hand experience on the subject.

[RPRNY]

Slower and softer are my preference in cast. With 30 cal bullets in the 180 - 220 grs range, 1600 - 1700 Fps are perfectly effective out to 200 yards. In my opinion, there's no need for anything faster nor for anything much harder than BHN 12 - 14.

Again, the Harris article offers a number of excellent loads.

[Blammer]

same bullet, same load for both
30gr of IMR3031 with 311284
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/2010%20Deer/DSCN8323.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/blammer8mm/media/2010%20Deer/DSCN8323.jpg.html)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/2008%20Deer/DSCN7412.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/blammer8mm/media/2008%20Deer/DSCN7412.jpg.html)

[QuintonHall]

same bullet, same load for both
30gr of IMR3031 with 311284
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/2010%20Deer/DSCN8323.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/blammer8mm/media/2010%20Deer/DSCN8323.jpg.html)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/2008%20Deer/DSCN7412.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/blammer8mm/media/2008%20Deer/DSCN7412.jpg.html)
Blammer how well do you think that load would work in a 308 savage with 10 twist rifling?

[Hickok]

Blammer I just have to ask, "What boolit, alloy, etc.?"

[Blammer]

mine is a 10 twist, should be fine

it's your average WW (around 96/2/2 if I had to guess) alloy air cooled with the 311284 bullet sized to .309 gator gas check and some speed green lube.

[kycrawler]

in 30/06 for hunting the 311299 or the lee 200 gr boolit are great cast them from straight wheel weights water drop them I use a bushing and file a small flat meplat of the bullets hornady gas checks sized to 309 in a lee sizer a lube 1x with jpw and then tumble with lla load over 38 grains of imr 4350