Newbie needs help on how to work up a cast bullet load for 358 win

[woodcrafter80]

Hi Guys , new to the sight and to cast bullet reloading. Want to work up a load for a lyman 358315 round nose for my 358 win encore rifle 20" MTM Barrel. Bullet pours out at 214.8 grs to 216.4 grs. That's sized gc installed & lubed. most bullets came to 215.4grs. to 215.7grs. My concern is finding the best powder to use and a starting point to work up from.
Have already worked up 1 load using IMR 4064 powder with start load of 42 grs to 44.7grs. in .3 gr increments. Shot 10 3 shot groups at a 100 yards . COL was 2.519 which is .020 off lands which sets gc below case shoulder juction. Out of the ten groups shot none showed any pressure problems. Only one three shot group shot at 1 inch @ 100 yds. Rest were 2 to 4 in groups.
Not sure I done right choosing powder. Got it from Sierra load manual for a 200 gr round nose jacketed bullet. Speed on boolit from manual shows 2200 -2350 fps. Just to know if i have done right or should i have backed the load off more before working up.

[Yodogsandman]

Welcome to the site! You've done real good for yourself in your first venture into shooting cast boolits! Good job!

Yes, you could have backed off on the powder but, each type of powder is different and some tolerate being reduced better than others. Some can be reduced 15% and some 20% down from the maximum jacketed bullet load. Time to get a manual that has cast boolit loads. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, #3 and #4 are great.

Consider water dropping or heat treating your boolits to make them harder for use at those velocities.

Three shot groups are OK for rough testing but, ten shot groups, combining 5 each, 5 shot groups or combining 10 each, 3 shot groups will show just how good the load really is. 10 shot groups at 100 yards are normally the standard used with cast boolits. Even 10 shot groups should be shot on a few different days to check for sure. This will show the loads real accuracy potential.

The next step is to go back to the load that gave the best group and shoot it again to see if it holds up.

After that, I'd try different overall lengths to dial it in further.

[Blackwater]

WC, let me add my welcome to you too, and my deepest sympathy for getting into cast. It's another thing to fuss over, and it's addicting, but you show signs you're already hooked, so just enjoy the ride. You'll learn much, and here, you'll be getting the best info available on the subjects involved.

Working up ANY load is done just as you did. All I'd point out is that I always use 5 shot groups instead of 3. I once did some load testing back when I was a very poor college student with a wife and child, and went to 3 shots to save scarce money. Found a load that shot good for 3 shots, and loaded up a bunch of ammo with it, but found on more testing that the 3 shot group was a fluke. Sometimes "economizing" isn't as economical as we think!

First step is to get all the data for cast you can find, and the best place to do that is in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. Supplement that, when you want to use a powder they don't list, with info you can get here, but ALWAYS check it by comparing that powder's position on the burn rate lists in many of the loading manuals, and comparing it to similar powders, just to check that it's not too much. And always be aware that we on the internet CAN make a typo now and then, so always use internet data with caution and tripple check before using it.

Then, just figure out how fast you want to shoot the bullets, and pick a powder that looks likely to give you that speed and start your testing just exactly like you've done already. That's really about all there is to it.

I assume you already know that the alloy you use - how hard it is - can be a big factor in how fast you can drive them, and that the lube you use can affect that too.

Mostly, it's just a matter of trial and error, and sorting it all out to find those special loads your individual gun likes, what diameter sizer gives you best results, and all the other things you can find in the stickies and archives that describe all the factors that can and do affect results. When I first came here, I took the time to go read a big portion of the archives, and it really helped me glean a LOT of info, some of which I'd never heard or thought of, so this is a tremendous place to learn all sorts of things you may not even know to ask about just yet.

Looks to me like you're doing very well. Some like to use lighter loads for practicing economically. I like to use something that simulates my hunting loads more precisely, but that's just personal preferences. I do mostly pest shooting now, so those lighter loads have a more prominent place in my bag of tricks than they used to now. Cast offers you many options that you'd never really have with just jacketed, and some here have learned how to cast bullets and shoot them to very high velocities, approaching and even occasionally exceeding 3,000 fps.! They have the PhD's in shooting cast here, and whenever they speak, it's good to listen. Runfiverun, Goodsteel and several others have done this, and I am humbled by what they've done. As you learn, your horizons will broaden considerably, and you'll learn to pick powders and loads most appropriate to your purposes more easily. But nothing good happens unless and until you put them on target. That's the only definitive test there is with ANY load, no matter what type bullet you're using. Looks to me like you're off to a really good start, and that is a biggie. I suspect you're going to be shooting with the best here pretty soon.

[Tatume]

Go to the Hodgdon web site:
http://www.hodgdon.com/

Look up the starting load for 220 grain bullets using H4895. Now go to:
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf


and read about reducing loads for H4895. Reduce your loads to about 1800 fps for best accuracy.

[Tatume]

P.s., there are many good molds for the 358 Winchester. Many of us have found the RCBS 35-200-FN to give outstanding accuracy and excellent game-getting qualities.

[woodcrafter80]

Thanks for the info guys. I've ordered a Lyman Handbook
What I didn't say was the bullets I shot were water dropped and showed no sign of leading that I could tell
The reason I only shot 3 shot groups was I just wanted to make sure there was no problem with pressure
I want to back off the starting load of 42 grs to get down to around 1800- 2000 fps but was not sure as that would be safe because I've always heard never go below min charge as it can cause pressure problems. Of course that is with jacketed bullets i guess.
I do want to try the H4895 & other boolit styles.
Blackwater said I showed sign of being hooked on this but I think its more like obsessed. but who wouldn't like making your own
boolits & having them shoot as good or better than jacketed.
While I'm waiting on the Lyman Handbook I will use the 42.6 gr charge that grouped and see if I can dial it in a little better or it was a fluke.
I learned a lot reading on this sight but mostly I've learned you guys know alot about cast shooting and I always heard if you want to learn go the best So here I am. Sorry guys but you stuck with me now.
Thanks again for the info and the help I'll need in the future.

Jeff

[richhodg66]

I have that mold, but haven't run any through my .358. It was a very good low velocity bullet in the .35 Remington for me years ago. I think that bullet design is more for funtion in lever guns that for optimum accuracy, the aforementioned RCBS 200 grain FP (in my case, the NOE clone of it) sems to be THE bullet in .35s.

My deer load in my .358 was that RCBS 200 FN abd 40 grains of IMR 4320. Shoots well in my rifle.