Still Struggling With my Handloads

[Javelin Dan]

Hey guys, I need a little adult supervision. Instead of going forward, I've taken a step back and in recognition of the old saw “ When you've dug yourself a hole, stop digging!” I thought I'd better seek wiser council here.


First, I'd better recap where I've been. Sorry if you've seen it before in previous posts. I've been seriously reloading for only about 4 months. I'm loading for both .32 long and .32 ACP. I have one H&R 732 revolver and several .32 semi-autos. Over the last weekend, I bought a Kel-tec P32 which I have long lusted after as a personal carry piece. Obviously, the auto loads are the ones giving me fits. Before I started to load, I tried to establish a baseline using off-the-shelf ammo. CCI Blazers were the only rounds I could find consistently so I used those. They cycled exceedingly well with no failures to feed, or failures to eject. I also tried some Winchester “white box” target ammo which also worked very well, but did have a couple of failures to feed. They are a much shorter round measuring about .940” in length compared to CCI's at .960” length.


After seeking the advice of others, I started out using a 76 gr. lead round nose, flat point “Cowboy” bullet with an advertised .313” diameter from a manufacturer who shall remain nameless, hereafter known as bullet #1. These were pressed to a OAL of about .960” (to mimic the CCI's) over 1.7 gr. Bullseye (per Lyman's 49th) using a very light crimp using a Lee's single stage press and standard crimp die – just enough to roll the case mouth slightly inward, but still allowing it to be felt when dragging my thumbnail over it. I started out with just 100 bullets to make sure they would work, then bought another 500 and loaded and shot all but a very few. Overall, these rounds shot pretty well, but I did have a few failure to feeds along the way. I also had to throw away 2-3 bullets out of every 100 because the diameter was too small and the bullets wouldn't seat properly. Others were a greasy mess because of too much lube. Because I had a FEW chambering issues, and because I thought a round nose bullet might help with that, when it came time to re-order, I decided to try another vendor.


I found a similar but slightly different “Cowboy” bullet (bullet #2) from another manufacturer. This one was a 78 gr. lead round nose bullet also with an advertised diameter of .313”. Unfortunately, these only came in lots of 500. In the FAQ on the manufacturer's website, they tell you they won't sell a small quantity of bullets to try, so don't even ask. I didn't. Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread, so I ordered 500.


Because of the Thanksgiving holiday, I haven't been able to get to the range for a couple of weeks, so I spent my spare time loading about 250 rounds of .32 ACP. These were also pressed to a length of
.960”. I took them to the range today along with my JA 32 and of course the Kel-tec which I have never shot. I started with the JA 32 because I knew, or thought I did, what to expect from it. I was gratified when the first four rounds went bang, but then had a failure to feed. The round got stuck in the chamber at a 45 degree angle just above the magazine which has been an occasional problem with this gun. I cleared it and cycled the slide, and the next round did the same thing. And the next, and the next...you get the picture. I then tried the Kel-tec and never got it to fire a single round! Each round would stick horizontally directly above the magazine, but wouldn't fully chamber forward. At that point, I think the full diameter of the bullet was engaging and interfering with the back end of the barrel. In fact, I could see that the slide was held back slightly from going all the way forward. I packed up and walked out of the range with my tail between my legs.



When I got home, I decided to closely compare the two bullets. I first got out my digital calipers and measured the diameter of the two bullets. While both being advertised at .313”, only bullet #2 actually measured that – bullet #1 measured .312”. Also, while the lube and crimp grooves were basically the same, bullet #1 measured .454” in height (length?), while bullet #2 measured .474”. Trying to make sense of this, I formulated a theory that the shorter length and more radical taper of bullet #1 allowed it to fully chamber without interfering with the back end of the gun barrel. The greater length and more ball shape of bullet #2, not so much. Am I on the right track, or is it something else entirely? If I am right, should I...




Go back to the use of bullet #1

Find a bullet with an advertised diameter of .312

Could I drop the powder charge to 1.5 gr. (minimum shown in Lyman's) and try seating the

the bullet to an OAL of .940” like the Winchesters just to see if it would chamber?

4.) Do something else?



I can easily use the rest of these bullets in the .32 long loads. But the thought of individually pulling some 250 bullets makes me very sad...no, crazy! I could really use a little pep talk folks.

[Garyshome]

Do you have a case gage? Usually if it fits in a case gage it fits in the chamber. Sorry I don't know anything about loading 32's.
Check to see if the case is shaving the boolit, if that is happening it won't chamber correctly in a semi auto. This is caused by not enough bell on the case mouth.
You should slug the bore to find the correct diameter needed for your firearm
"I formulated a theory" no doubt a dangerous thing to do.
Different sizes and shapes in boolits are designed that way by someone who knows more then me.
Hope some of this helps

[Mk42gunner]

I have not loaded for the .32ACP, but this is what I would do. Make up a magazine capacity batch of dummy rounds, no primer or powder. Try cycling those through your gun(s).

Since you have multiple .32's, I would start with the either the one with the tightest chamber, or the one you like to shoot the most. Get it working and then modify the load for the rest. Hopefully all will work with the same load/ bullet/ oal.

Case gauges are nice to have, but you can take the barrel out of most auto loaders to use for a "plunk test."

Robert

[edler7]

just enough to roll the case mouth slightly inward, but still allowing it to be felt when dragging my thumbnail over it.

Maybe a little bit heavier crimp ? Case could be hanging up on the rear of the chamber.

[Javelin Dan]

I was cautioned early in all this that .32 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. I was told it's easy to over-crimp. Still wondering if a factory crimp die would make all this easier, but I want to eat this elephant one bite at a time.

Mk42gunner - I was thinking exactly that at supper. I may just try that and see where it leads.

Garyshome - I hear ya bro...theories are like rectums - everyone has one, but on one wants to see mine! :)

[JWFilips]

OK I shoot a JA 32 (& it is my carry gun most times) They have a sloppy bore You need a .314 Boolit Try the ranch Dog 32 /75 grain from my good friend Jerry Cunningham at Carolina Cast Bullets Tell him what you need sized .314" I like them in his Cowboy soft alloy . They obturate better that way! They hit hard! Load then short. Then they are dead nutz on for the JA! That is my carry load when I'm not packing larger (90 % of the time) If you need load data for the JA 32 PM me But it will olly be for Jerry's RD boolits

[Javelin Dan]

JWFillips - I've had problems with the JA 32 - don't want to go too far afield here, but maybe we can get to that later. Focusing on the problem at hand, it SEEMS to me that the new bullets are too large in diameter, interfering with the back of the barrel, and not allowing the round to go forward enough to chamber properly. To be clear, are you saying that I could be wrong about this? (ENTIRELY POSSIBLE!) Keep in mind that the previous bullets which measured smaller when I checked did work most of the time. Thanks to everyone for trying to help, by the way...

[JWFilips]

When you are ready we can talk: take your time and with a grain of salt!

[csatrustburg]

I would stick with mk42 make up a mag of them and chamber each by cycling them. Also I start with just a few each loaded generally different powder and such looking for best accuracy never 250 straight out the gate. I know paying to go by a range you want to be able to shoot but just load a few test make sure they work you get the accuracy you want then load them all up! When JW has the same gun and its running good try it out might be the ticket! Good luck bud.

[Javelin Dan]

As per MK42gunner's suggestion, I spent the evening pressing some dummy loads (spent primers, no powder). I adjusted my press to aim for an OAL of .945 (+ or - a couple hundreths). I then loaded the mags of both guns and tried to cycle them as best I could by hand. I had difficulty ejecting them hard and fast enough by hand, and ended up with a nice raw spot on the side of my thumb knuckle, but as close as I can tell, they just may work. Just have to load a few.

The good news is that the wife and I had purchased a membership at a gun club with indoor range when we started all this, so all I gotta do is drive down there (about 10 miles) and buy a target for $1.50. May do that tomorrow if I can swing it. I'll report back when I have any news. Thanks.

[John Boy]

Dan, when I have chambering or ejection issues in semiauto's ... I mark the cases and bullet nose with a permanent marker or Permatex Prussian blue. Put the rounds in the magazine - chamber and eject by hand. Then look the ejected rounds over to determine where the permanent marker has been scrapped. If the nose is scrapped - COL is too long. If the cases are marked from the mouth to the bottom of the seated bullet - bullet is too large in diameter. If the webs are scrapped - cases not full length sized
And a hard factory crimp many times alleviates chambering & ejection issues

[rond]

Take the barrel out and see if your reload will drop into the chamber. If not run it into your seating die a little deeper at a time until it does. That will be the length that you need to load your rounds. I screw the seating stem in and seat without a crimp, then back the stem out and crimp the case. It adds a step but works better that way for me. If it is a lot deeper into the case you will need to reduce the powder charge. I've loaded 1000's of 32 acp with that 78 grain boolit and it works in all my guns.

[mdi]

Just couple thoughts; You mentioned crimping "just enough to roll the case mouth...", are you uding a roll crimp? I do not crimp any of my 45 ACP or 9mm ammo, I just use a taper crimp die to remove any flare in the case mouth. Also try the "Plunk Test" with your gun's barrel as a gauge. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?179633-Plunk-Test

'Nother thought, I'd use the OAL spec., from my manual, of a bullet with the same profile as the one I'm using, and adjust (shorten) the bullet seating as needed to pass the Plunk Test...

[Blackwater]

JD, first thing I'd recommend is to check your focus. Are you just doing things because you're told to do it that way, or did you read the front section of your loading manual, and come to understand WHY you do it that way? That's the first step, and there's really no way around it. Once you understand WHY you do things a particular way to get a particular result, you're on the short path to great success. There's no real way to reload without thinking as you go along, and noticing closely what you're doing and how it's working for you.

With this step alone, you should learn how to adjust your dies precisely and why you adjust them just so, and yes, this really does matter. A LOT!

Most manuals give a very good synopsis of what to do and why, and once you understand this, you'll be self sufficient, and should have few problems that the guys here can help you with, but it's also a good place to communicate with other newbies so they can learn from your mistakes, and us old timers can chuckle when we remember we've been there and done that in our time.

This is also the one significant step that most newbies neglect so commonly when starting out, but it'll always be the best way to really come to understand WHY you do things in particular ways to achieve particular results. Crimping is a big problem for many, and most mauals have very good instructions on how to do it, but most simply won't read them, and so, they waste several times the time it'd take to simply read it and come to an understanding, than it does in creating problematic reloads. Some even quit, saying reloads are "unreliable," when it's really only THEIR loads that are that way.

Live's WAY too short to shoot 2nd or 3rd rate ammo, and you can't really learn anything from practice with less than excellent ammo, so folks who refuse to do their due diligence and read the manuals and every other good source they can get ahold of are doing themselves the biggest disservice they possibly can, and wasting MUCH time and money and components in the process. Give it a try and I think you'll see what I mean. It was nearly ALL I had when I started out, and each additional manual I got was read through on the front part about how to do it, until I nearly knew them by heart, and I wasn't so haughty as to not go back to them from time to time and look up areas I might find problematic, and every time I did this, I'd get some sort of good lesson that built my knowledge up so that finally, I got to shooting ammo that I still regard as BETTER than any factory ammo available. That ain't no small thing! If you doubt me, give it a try, and I think you'll see what I mean. FWIW?

[bedbugbilly]

First - I don't load the 32 so have no experience with that round/pistol. I do load 9mm though and for several different pistols. Yes, I know . . . every pistol is different in terms of bore, chamber, etc. And I also know all about the plunk test.

In an earlier post, a "cartridge gauge" or "case gauge" was mentioned. If you are going to reload the 32, 380, 9mm, etc. . . a cartridge gauge is money well spent. I keep my 9mm gauge right on the bench where a loaded round can be dropped in to make sure it is within specs. All I load is cast - some sized, some not - in a variety of designs/weights. From the time I started loading 9mm, I never had a problem until a few weeks ago. I ended up with some rounds that wouldn't chamber correctly and allow my one pistol to go back into battery. It ended up that I was pulling the boolits out of a container that held two different batches of "as cast" from two different casting sessions. Never had a problem with any of them before but some were evidently just a tad too much from one of the mold cavities. I was able to check what I had loaded up easily with the cartridge gauge and just adjust my Lee FCD to put a little more taper crimp on 'em . . then all was well.

Cartridge gauges run around $20 and are well worth the money to point a problem out quickly.

Hopefully you can get your problem ironed out without too much frustration. Good luck!

[Javelin Dan]

I did press some rounds to the .945” dimension I talked about last night and made it to the range today. The results were MUCH better, but not perfect. Here's what happened:


I started with the Kel-tec and was gratified to see it chambered and fired right away until on the third magazine full, the gun jammed with one in the pipe. I couldn't physically cycle the slide and asked the rangemaster for help. He couldn't strong-arm it either, and took it off the range to clear it so I couldn't see what he did. I was able to shoot a couple more mags through it, then it happened again. Again, I couldn't see what the rangemaster did to clear it. I then decided to retire the gun for the day and wanted to manually eject the remaining rounds (5) from the magazine with my thumb. The top round wouldn't budge out of the magazine. I didn't have anything in my range bag to pry with, so I showed it to the rangemaster on the way out. He couldn't manually budge it either and didn't try to pry on it, but said he hadn't seen that before (they are a Kel-tec dealer) and suggested I contact Kel-tec about it. At home, I did gently pry the round out with a small screwdriver, heard a “click”, and then everything seemed to return to normal. I manually loaded and unloaded the magazine a couple times with just my thumb and all seemed well. I know the manual said to expect a few jams and failures to feed before the gun is broken in, but I bought this to be a reliable carry piece and right now I don't trust it. Could well be my handloads, but the rangemaster inspected them and didn't seem to see an obvious problem. I've e-mailed Kel-tec and will wait to see what they say. Didn't mention I was shooting handloads by the way...


I also took the JA 32 with me and actually faired a little better with that. I had a couple of failures to feed (bullet jams at 45 degree angle above the mag - it's happened before with this gun) but simply racking the slide cleared it and otherwise, everything went bang normally. FWIW, all rounds that failed to feed were inspected and reloaded and fired normally on the second try. Both these guns are fairly new – the JA 32 has just about 200 rounds through it, the Kel-tec only about 25.


Blackwater – great advice, and actually I do get out the old Lyman's and give it a look now and then. Under the “Seating and Crimping” section of the “Reloading Handgun Cartridges” chapter, there is precious little that is pertinent here other than to make similar suggestions about checking for proper chambering and to say...


“Circumstances which include magazine length, chamber dimensions, cannelure location, and BULLET SHAPE may make it necessary to use a shorter than suggested overall length.”


However, in the “Jacketed Bullet” section, it says the following:


“In some cases crimping may be desirable, but it may be impractical or even dangerous to roll crimp. For example, any case which headspaces from the case mouth such as 30 Carbine, 9mm Luger, and 45 ACP (and if I'm not wrong, this includes .32 ACP – correct? (JD), should never be roll crimped. Doing so shortens the case and alters headspacing. Yet each of these are subject to forceful impacts with the feeding surfaces of the firearm. The solution is to TAPER CRIMP. This method forces the outside of the case neck tightly against the bullet without shortening the case.”


Lee describes their standard crimp die as a “modified roll and taper crimp”, whatever the hell that means. I've read many a testimonial about guys who struggled with chambering issues with .32 ACP and had their problems go away when they ordered a factory crimp die. I had wanted to try this without it because many others said it was possible, but I'm wondering if it's time to end my misery and just “pull the trigger”.

[gwpercle]

Dan, I've loaded a lot of 32 acp's over the years for a Walther PPK. You've got a lot of things going against you. Your not that experienced with all this, multiple semi-auto pistols adds to the difficulty as does the fact the 32 acp isn't the easiest thing to get working right. The truth is it's a stinker and at times hard to get sorted out. Light powder charges cause a lot of feeding and ejection problems.
You need to find a boolit diameter that when seated will allow it to chamber. For this use dummy rounds to test things, sized, no primer, no powder, boolit seated to a depth that looks right (close to factory) see if it will drop into the chamber, plunk test. If it doesn't fit, seat the boolit deeper , in small increments until it does. After that , reassemble gun and load it into a magazine, test by manually retracting the slide and letting it go...if it feeds and chambers , you got your depth down.
Work with one gun at a time. next powder charge some for a range test. Do not use the minimum load , that can cause function problems, start in the middle, that's a great place. Once you get one gun shooting chances are good it will shoot in the others.
32 acp is not known for it's ease of reloadability but don't throw in the towel just yet. One thing, after this experience you should have no problems loading anything.
Gary
The modified roll and taper crimp means it takes out the flair you did to seat the cast boolit then tapers the final crimp.

[Javelin Dan]

I cleaned both guns today and while I was at it, I grabbed one of my .945" boolits and dropped it in the back end of both barrels. PLUNK! Dropped right in all the way to the hilt with no interference. With that test passed, I showed a couple to a neighbor who has handloaded for years and he couldn't find any fault with them other than to question the crimping process. I thought about it and decided to adjust all the crimp out of my standard crimp die, load some new rounds, and take them to the range next week. If they still give me grief, I'll order the factory crimp die. Won't have any news till the end of next week, but I'll report back with whatever happens.

[edler7]

A couple more thoughts -

are you seating and crimping in one operation, or 2 separate operations ?

Any chance you could occasionally be limp wristing your pistol while firing ?

[Minerat]

I don't load for 32s either. But I have experienced the live round jam/extraction problem in a Colt Officer 45 ACP. It indexes on the case mouth too. I was loading a flat point tapered boolit and using an OAL similar to FMJ Ball ammo. I found that the jam happened if I left the shoulder of the boolit out too far from the case mouth, as little as 2/1000s would cause the problem. I even used the plunk test and the funny thing was they passed but then some would jam while shooting. So what was happening was that when the slide returned to battery it was jambing the shoulder into the rifling. The only way to clear the jam was to insert a short rod of some type (screw driver) in the muzzle and gently tap on a bench while pulling back on the slide. I used an empty mag in the gun, that way the slide would lock when the round was tapped out. Finally figured that recoil was causing the boolits to move forward in the case during the first couple of shots in some of the loads. Fixed it by seating the boolit so the top of the shoulder was level with the top of the case and using an aggressive taper crimp, ie seat all of the boolits and readjust the die to do the crimp and give it another 1/8 of a turn down. Also found with that lead bollit the feed ramp on the Colt would catch or cause a deformation on the shoulder that caused the miss feed or jamb. I polished the ramp too just in case. Final resolution was to quit loading that style of boolit in the ACP and used them in the 45 colt.

[lightload]

The 32 acp is a semi-rim affair just like the .38 Super. Most makers now make the .38 Super pistols with the case head spacing on the case mouth. My guess is that this is KelTec's method. Looking into the chamber will reveal whether or not there is a head spacing ring. I suggest that you use a seating die with the taper crimping feature. Most likely your die set has this anyway.

I've owned two KelTec 380s, one 32, and three 9mms. All went back to KelTec at least once, and only one out of six was reliable. I gave up on the brand. I had fired at least 150,000 rounds from handguns before I ever saw a KelTec. For me they would not function, and I don't limp wrist.

[Javelin Dan]

WOW! I sure hope I didn't buy a piece of ****! Well, we'll see...I'm just gonna take this one step at time and see where it leads. I'll let ya know. But I'll tell you one thing, that factory (taper) crimp die is starting to look better and better. Trying hard to concentrate on my technique and not shoot like a girly man, but I am after all a newbie so anything's possible. Seems like I've caught myself hanging on tight and still had that happen though,,,

[Javelin Dan]

Oh yeah, elder7 - to specifically answer your question, I'm using the standard seating/crimp die that came with my Lee anniversary set. So yes, seating and crimping in one pull of the handle.

[AtomHeartMother]

I load 32 acp specifically for my keltec p32. Your Lee dies won't roll crimp-not designed to but you can still over crimp. I never tried lead in my keltec but I can say the chamber won't tolerate a long oal or a bullet much bigger than .312. My oal for berry's 71 grain plated is .936. The little keltec is dead reliable with this load... I carry it and would bet my life on it. If you're going to seat deeper watch your powder charge...don't be tempted to wring more power out of the mouse guns. I didn't catch what powder you're using. I've been using titegroup in mine and my manual states 2 grains starting charge, 2.2 grains max. So needless to say you need to be spot on with your measure. 1.5 grains of any powder may not be enough to cycle reliably, but again, if you're going shorter on your oal I'd would load a few there and see how they run just to be safe with pressures. You experienced rim lock in your magazine. 32 acp is a semi rimmed round. Load the rounds carefully in the magazine or you can accidently have a round on top of another jump the rim of the round under it. Quite often you need to disassemble the magazine to fix it. Don't be tempted to get the after market 10 round mags for the keltec....they like to rim lock. Stick with the oem mecgar mags. Good luck ! The p32 is truly a great little gun...you'll get it running well. In the end if boolits don't work look into berry's plated or something from rocky mountain reloading. I know they cost more but you'd still be saving a bunch verses retail/box.

[Schrag4]

I don't have a whole lot to add, as I've never reloaded for 32. A couple of years ago I learned the same lesson that you hopefully did. I had an issue with a load that I so very impatiently loaded about 250 rounds for before I knew it would not work out. Nowadays I work up a load with 5 or 10 rounds at each charge, then once I settle on one (assuming no issues during testing), I load only 50 rounds to test out next - you can always bring other ammo to the range that day. Only after my initial accuracy/chrono testing and 50 more problem-free rounds will I even consider making so many.

[edler7]

Oh yeah, elder7 - to specifically answer your question, I'm using the standard seating/crimp die that came with my Lee anniversary set. So yes, seating and crimping in one pull of the handle.

You might try seating and crimping as separate steps. It adds another round through the press if you use a single stage press, but I feel it gives better results. It also means you have to readjust your die between operations, and that also takes a little time....but not much.

Most die sets have instructions on how to do it in either one or 2 steps.

[rintinglen]

The plunk test does not tell the whole story. A cartridge may well drop in the barrel with ease, yet be too long to manage the jump from magazine to barrel. You need your reloads to hit the feed ramp in the same place and at the same angle as the factory ammo. Too long or too short can cause problems. MtGun44 has an interesting photo that illustrates this phenomena with a H&G 68 superposed in front of a factory hardball round. Despite the difference in length, you can see that both rounds will contact the ramp in the same spot, assuring that they will feed the same.

I suspect that your loads are too long for the boolit you are using. I have loaded a fair few 32 ACP's in the last few years, and the two boolits I use most are the Ranch Dog 314-75 TC loaded to .900 OAL and the MP 32 ACP 73 grain HP loaded to .916. Those loads are well below the max length for the 32 ACP. but they have worked flawlessly in my Colt 1903, Browning 1922 and Beretta Tomcat. Were I to seat them out, I am sure the Beretta would have trouble even if the bigger guns didn't.

[AtomHeartMother]

Rintinglen has a good point. My manual shows .984 oal for the 71 grain ball...not even close to chambering in my p32....waaaay too long.

[dverna]

One thing to check is if the rounds that do not feed are not due to set back by either recoil or during the feeding cycle. A good crimp will address this as will a slightly oversize bullet that will still feed. But the crimp should not reduce bullet diameter to less than bore size.

ALL semi auto rounds should be taper crimped. Take the loaded round and push the bullet against the side of your bench. If the bullet moves, you do not have enough crimp.

Starting your handloading with cast in a .32 ACP is like starting with cast in an AR to learn how to load high velocity rifle loads. Not easy.

One "baby" step would be to start with some jacketed bullets.

Don

[Javelin Dan]

It's been months since I (or anyone else) last posted on this thread, and I apologize if I'm breaching some sort of etiquette about glomming on to outdated posts. But as the original poster, I thought I'd add a few things I've learned along the way since then for the possible benefit of any newbies that might stumble on this later. Perhaps, I can spare them a little of my grief.


The holidays and a 93 year old father-in-law who went into the hospital with pneumonia kept me away from the range for over a month. In that time, I stumbled across a good buy on an RCBS taper crimp die on Amazon, so I bought it. I decided I would try loading rounds crimping with the Lee's standard “modified crimp” die, and more with the RCBS taper crimp die and objectively compare how they chambered, shot, and ejected. I decided to use only my Kel-Tec (P32) and my Jimenez Arms JA-32 as test mules since these had been my most problematic guns. Over several months of careful experimentation, here's what I learned:


*So far, I've actually had a little more success with the rounds that I've pressed using the Lee's standard crimp die than the ones I've pressed with the RCBS taper crimp die. The difference is small, and I have more testing to do, but this surprised me. The Lee's die that came with my Anniversary Kit works very well!


*.32 ACP's, or at least the ones I have, like FMJ bullets – period. I experimented with lead bullets in both roundball and round nose-flat point in several weights, and the the Kel-Tec in particular choked on more of them than it fired. I couldn't fire a complete magazine through it without failure-to-feeds until I switched to jacketed bullets. Then everything got much easier. I started out using a 71 gr. round nose FMJ I bought from my gunsmith of unknown brand which worked very well. When I ran out, I bought a box of 71 gr. plated Berry's Bullets from Cabela's that are technically a round nose, but do have a small flat spot on the top. So far, I can't tell any difference between the two in feeding reliability. Both bullets are .312” in diameter as opposed to the .313” “cowboy” bullets I had been trying to use. I'm starting to believe this also made my life easier.


*Both these guns like a shorter round. I had started out reading articles by Ed Harris where he was pressing his rounds to .975” for his Colt .32 ACP, so I did the same. I struggled with ongoing chambering issues until I successively shortened the rounds to .945”. At this point, my chambering issues virtually stopped.


*When I shortened the rounds, I became concerned about the charge-to-bullet distance increasing the pressures, so I decided to drop the charge back down to the minimum 1.5 gr. of Bullseye recommended by my Lyman's 49th and work my way up. With the lighter bullet and smaller charge, these guns suddenly felt like .22's with a weak report and virtually no recoil. While the JA-32 was happy with these weak loads, the lightweight Kel-Tec wasn't happy at all with many failure-to-ejects and numerous incidents of the slide not cycling all the way back into battery. I gradually worked the charge back up to where the Kel-Tec would cycle reliably, and that was at 2 gr. of Bullseye under these 71 gr. Bullets pressed to .945”. The little P-32 really pops now and is actually a bit of a handful, but I bought a box of Sellier & Bellot .32 ACP ammo (the hottest factory loads I could find barring Buffalo Bore), and they perform just about the same. Due to the design and light weight slide on this gun, I guess it needs a little more oommpf to rebound that slide back into the cocked position.


*I still get a very occasional failure-to-eject with the Kel-Tec, but I'm only around the 200 round marker on this gun and the book says to expect that once in a while till the gun is well broken in. The JA-32 has over 300 rounds on it, and seems to be turning into a very reliable shooter.


I'm not expecting any response to this old thread, I'm just posting for the benefit of anyone stumbling across it in the future. I'm certainly no handloading expert yet, but I do feel I've sort of turned a corner and am slowly getting there. Baby steps...

[PS Paul]

I've loaded tens of thousands 32 ACP. You are simply loading too lightly to make your pistol cycle reliably, hence your FTF's (failure to feed).

[Javelin Dan]

Went to the range friday and shot 50 rounds through the Kel Tec. The very first round failed to chamber correctly when I cocked the gun, but I actually think I was a little lacidasical in my release of the slide. Once I was past that, zero failure-to-feeds, zero failure-to-fires! That hasn't happened since I bought my last box of Blazers! Everyone of those boolits was a handload made to the specs listed above. I think I'm getting it! One caveat with this load is that my brass ejects off into the netherworld and I'm lucky if I can recover a dozen or so. But if the Kel Tec's happy, I'm happy. Even though it complicates my life a little, I'll probably press two loads for .32 ACP; the ones shown above for the Kel Tec, and others with the same bullet pressed to the same length over 1.7 gr. Bullseye. While experimenting, I found this load to run reliably in everything but the Kel Tec, and my brass fell right back in my lap. Oh well, just a little more time required on the loading bench...doesn't really sound all that bad does it?

One more time, thanks to all who weighed in on this and gave me your highly valued perspectives. I truly felt I wasn't alone, as I otherwise would have. You guys are the best!

[Javelin Dan]

Just so I don't confuse anyone, I bought my last box of Blazers before I bought the Kel Tec, so I ran them through my other two .32 autos - never put any factory ammo through the Kel Tec other than Sellier & Bellot.

[AtomHeartMother]

Good to hear you're making progress ! I've been tempted to try cast in mine but your experiences convinced me against it. I run 2.2 grains of titegroup at .936 oal as stated before. I was running 2 grains but I found in cold weather with lower pressures, I would get an occasional malfunction. Standard liability statement: my load data works in my gun. Use this data with caution knowing any risk belongs to the user.☺

[runfiverun]

I think this is a good opportunity for you to start learning a little something about your KEL-TEC.
you know it likes a little more snap.
and I think you just used the wrong cast boolit in your efforts.
if a gun will shoot jacketed it will shoot cast, now the internal dimensions might be a challenge for the naked lead
but that isn't the alloy's fault it's a design flaw on the makers part.

I think you might be well served to change the powder speed for the kel-tec and see if it doesn't settle down a bit and start putting those cases within reach.

I go through the same thing with my mil-spec 1911's one will lay the cases down in a neat little circle about 3' away while the other one will launch them about 7 to 500 feet off to the right or behind me and sometimes to the left somehow.
it's all in the recoil spring and the little notch where the barrel unlocks.
if I switch loads [basically slow the powder speed down] I can get the unruly pistol to actually keep the brass about 5-6 feet to my right and a little in front of me.

[gwpercle]

I just love a story with a happy ending !

Something else I've noticed is most new pistols no longer have much or any throat like the older ones did. My WWII era Walther PPK in 32 acp and P-38 in 9mm had a throat and OAL could be longer, new 9mm pistols have the rifling starting at the very end of the chamber so the have to be set shorter or the boolit will stick in the rifling.
I'm beginning to think the OAL listed in a manual is a starting point, but may need to be shorter to fit a particular gun.
Gary

[Blackwater]

JD, please accept my commendments for your persistence. That's rather rare today, all too often, and it's evident you're hooked. My condolences on that part of it! ;^)

The biggest challenge we all face starting out is keeping several factors in mind all at the same time while we're learning. That's never going to be easy! But you're doing good, even if you may have doubts right now. I'd say you're on the virge of becoming a really good reloader, for whatever that might be worth. But all of us, even us old timers, learn stuff here all the time, do don't ever think you're ever gonna' know it ALL. If that's humbling, then good! The best reloaders and casters I've ever known were all humble folks who loved to learn new stuff, and were always looking a things hoping to notice something they'd been overlooking for years. That's the proper and best attitude a person can have when getting into all this. We old timers often forget how complex loading has gotten, what with all the various types or rounds and bullets and guns they're used in.

FWIW, your .32 ACP is one of the more difficult calibers to load for, and has been pointed out already, different guns MAY well require different loads to function 100% due to variations in feed ramps, mag. lengths, etc., etc. This isn't good news for you I know, but it's something to keep in mind.

Still, though, there's at least a chance that you may well be able to work up one load that'll function in them all. It's just not assured, but neither is it proven you can't just yet either, so if it were me, I'd definitely pursue it as you are now.

First thing I'd do is measure the mag. length on all your magazines, one for each gun. Write it all down and keep it handy. This will identify your max. OAL for the shortest mag. length, and that or a tad shorter is what I'd go with. Flat point bullets generally need to be seated to a shorter OAL because the flat point just shortens the bullet while keeping the curved sides of the bullet - the part that guides the bullet in feeding into the chamber - in the same place. That might help you.

Crimping is also best done as a separate step with semi-auto calibers. This is because if you crimp AND seat in one movement, the bullet is often still going down into the case when the crimp taper presses the mouth of the case very slightly into the sides of the bullet, which keeps the bullet from being driven back into the case during feeding, which is a pretty violent action. A loose grip of the case neck on the bullet also makes for problems. In .45 ACP, for instance, I've found brass that was so thin at the part where the bullet is gripped by the case that the bullets would spin around freely after seating and crimping. I had to trash these cases, and smashed the case mouth closed with pliers so I didn't get them in with some of my good cases. So good, tight bullet fit in the case is essential. The overall length is what determines whether your ctgs. will feed or not. Autos require "perfect" ammo for perfect function, but in reality, there IS just a little "wiggle room" within the parameters they'll accept. The .32 is indeed a "semi-rimmed" caliber, which means it has just a little of the rim sticking out beyond the shank of the case just in front of the extraction groove of the cases. It's not generally considered quite enough to headspace on, so most generally headspace on the case mouth. And it's also a caliber that many mfgr's have done all sorts of things with, and some have given rather spotty QC in their production from time to time, too, though others are really neat guns. This is at least part of what makes it difficult to say anything definite about loading the caliber for any given gun, and particularly for trying to load it for several at once. Keep this in mind and you should find yourself rather proud of what you've done so far. It's a challenge that would test many of us here.

Crimping in a separate step after the bullet is seated makes sure you don't roll a tiny circle of lead up as that bullet goes down its final few thousandths in seating. This is important because that tiny little circle of lead often sticks to the front of the chamber, and gets "ironed in" by subsequent firings. As this lead builds up at the front of the chamber, it can cause failures of the gun to close all the way because that buildup of lead at the chamber's mouth has gotten clogged up with it. It's pretty easy to get out, but if you carry one or any of your guns for self defense, you do NOT want that to happen at a critical moment, and too, it's really aggrevating when it happens in the field or on the range, too. So it's best avoided by crimping as a final last operation, usually. That's how I do all my own loading for autos for calibers that headspace on the case mouth, and since I did that, I have very few FTF's with my guns and reliability issues have been practically non-existent. Finding the OAL you need with any given bullet is probably the biggest factor you're dealing with, and there's no way to establish that, really, but to keep trying things in the OAL dept. just as you're wisely doing.

Like I said, you're doing a very good job getting started with what is really one of our most demanding calibers to reload for, not to mention the difficulty of handling those tiny cases!

It's really good to see a newbie with real "grit" when it comes to these things. You kind'a jumped off into the deep end of the pool, in a way at least, with the .32, but I look for your "Eureka" moment to happen soon, and a big smile I can feel all the way to Georgia! You're doing it right. Keep up the good work.

[Javelin Dan]

MAN - I love this forum!!

Thanks again to all of you, especially Blackwater, for all the kind words of encouragement! When I first started to load, I tried to turn to a couple of guys I know that have handloaded for years for support. I don't know, maybe I came on like I wanted to be their "new best friend", but I was all too eager to learn. Anyway, they both pushed me away at arm's length as if they didn't want to be bothered. I was rather dejected at that - I knew just enough to know what I didn't know, and was hungry for knowledge. I turned to this forum after reading many threads and seeing how people actually helped and encouraged one another without the usual "troll-ish" behavior you find in almost all other forums I've read. Yes, I still have a lot to learn, and will continue to do so. And yes, I will always stay humble and pay attention. In all walks of life, the people who have always scared me the most are the ones who think they have nothing left to learn. I can only repeat my previous statement...you guys are the BEST!!

[robroy]

I've enjoyed this thread greatly. I have also learned some things about loading for autos, although I dont have a 32. With a new 1911 comming soon I hope to put some of this very good information to use.

Thanks to all of you who have contributed to this thread.

[Blackwater]

FWIW, I think all of us old timers and so-called "experts" encountered similar things when we were starting out, so you're coming along just fine. Many of us at least had the benefit of a lot of reading before we got the chance to start doing, so we may even have had a bit of an advantage on you, really. This is just how we learn, and learning to take many variables into consideration in a logical order is something that really only comes with time and experience, but if a gun will fire with factories, it'll do just as well with reloads, once you've found what it takes with your particular bullet, powder and dimensions (bullet dia., OAL, etc.). And autos are really more difficult to learn because they require perfect or near perfect ammo for perfect funtion, but it IS achievable. This our hobby just isn't often a "one effort and done" proposition, and the most important things we learn are how to evaluate and learn to improve our loads so we CAN get those "perfect loads" for our guns. And guns DO sometimes differ from one sample to the next. Casting and reloading aren't for the "one variable at a time" crowd. And ya' did some serious good, as is evidenced by the performance you're getting now. Once you learn the principles of what it takes to make good ammo, finding the solutions to future problems, and there will most likely be some, will be quicker and easier to solve. No matter what we do, experience is the best and quickest teacher, and reading and loading and casting experience really DOES make a difference. Experience leads to understanding WHY things we originally thought were "little things" really DO matter. OAL, bullet dia., crimp, powder charge, etc. all matter, and it takes all of them being right (for autos particularly) to really do what we want them to. A lot of people don't seem to realize how exacting our hobbies really can be if we want 100% performance and reliability, and stop learning or trying once they get something that works "most of the time." Ya' done good, bro'! Good on ya'.

[Javelin Dan]

Before I go any farther, Happy Easter - He is risen indeed!

Things still going well, though I haven't made it to the range in two weeks. Hoping to get some range time in at the end of the week...we''ll see.


The only thing I have changed on my reloads this time is that I did separate operations to press-to-length and crimp. Used the Lee's standard "modified crimp" (but with the crimp adjusted to practically nothing) die to press to length, and my RCBS taper crimp die to do final crimp. On close inspection, I did notice the transition from the boolit to the case mouth is smoother and less noticeable, although I can still drag my thumbnail over it and feel the edge. I'll report on this procedure as soon as I manage to get to the range and back. Stay tuned...