california shooting

[Lloyd Smale]

fricking joke. The news people are already blaming the massive amount of guns in the US and claim its an ar15 and one joker said that you can sound like a squad of shooters with one of those HEAVY caliber semi auto rifles!! They don't even know how the shooters were yet and what the motives are and are blaming gun control on it. ONLY in California!!

[DougGuy]

Oh but wait! There's MORE! If you buy into this logic right now, we will send you President Obama's sincerest regards absolutely FREE of charge, operators are standing by....

They are saying it was 3 shooters armed with long guns and wearing body armor that piled into a black SUV and disappeared.

[Lloyd Smale]

probably paid for by the democrats to stir up anti gun rhetoric and give them a better chance at election time. Wonder how long it will take bozoma and Hillary to blame us nutcase gun owners. black Yukon with men with body armor sounds awful government to me

[DougGuy]

All politics aside, that is a stingingly LAME place to go shoot up. C'mon man, ppl with disabilities? This puts this shooting in a particularly hateful light and I hope the scoundrels are hunted and killed like rabid animals. Whoever thought this one up doesn't DESERVE due process.

[Bonz]

154695

[dragon813gt]

Wag to dog.

[bob208]

how are those gun free zones working for you????

[Lloyd Smale]

that's for sure!
All politics aside, that is a stingingly LAME place to go shoot up. C'mon man, ppl with disabilities? This puts this shooting in a particularly hateful light and I hope the scoundrels are hunted and killed like rabid animals. Whoever thought this one up doesn't DESERVE due process.

[Lloyd Smale]

no obomas saying the country needs to come together to change the way we deal with violence in this country. Just twisting it into a political issue to press his agenda on us. No one asks what the outcome would have been if everyone in that area had legal consealed guns. Guess they figure all of us good honest citizens will join in with the bad guys and start shooting disabled kids! then the AS_____ news people keep showing the same stretches being wheeled out over and over without a break so it looks like an even bigger news story.

[thxmrgarand]

I am convinced of two certainties: (1) If Democrats controlled Congress right now then we Americans would have reached a political tipping point this fall. Law-abiding gun owners would have their right to keep and bear arms seriously infringed right now if Democrats controlled Congress as they control the White House. (2) Possibly no election year has been as important to law-abiding gun owners than the 2016 election year will be, and therefore we must all be directly and continually involved. The presidential election and many election results nationwide will be seen as a referendum on gun rights. So gun owners need to be involved in these elections, giving money, holding fundraisers at our homes, writing letters to newspapers, meeting with editorial boards, and yes, fervently supporting the NRA. Murders around the world continually make it crystal clear that gun control does nothing but make the innocent defenseless, but Democrats and the liberal media believe this is their time to strike. Enemies of the Bill of Rights will see the gun issue as a way to rally their voters, and this lame duck President will try to make gun control the key facet of his legacy.

[SciFiJim]

This is a picture from the scene. It doesn't identify the origin of the brass, but doesn't report any shots fired by police. I am not good enough to identify the caliber from this picture. Can someone else identify it? Reportedly the shooters used AK47s, but the news people are notoriously bad at calling that sort of thing.



154706

Reportedly there were three shooters in military gear and left in a black SUV. I am not a conspiracy nut, but the "there's something wrong with this picture" bells are starting to ring.

[FISH4BUGS]

I'm ordering three more stripped lowers in the morning.

[GRUMPA]

To me the neck is to small for the AK, and it looks more like the 6.8 to me.

Very hard to tell by the picture, when I try to enlarge it, it gets kinda grainy.

[Lee]

To quote the ancient Chinese philosopher... :"Sum Ting Wong"


Big Pharma again strangely silent on this! ...... Lee

[bedbugbilly]

Been watching this off and on . . . certainly sad and a terrible thing . . . but . . .

What irritates the &^*%%$ out of me is the "typical news coverage". Supposition, theories, remarks and "informing the public" . . . all without having absolutely ANY knowledge other than what those far back from the scene can "witness". Why oh why does the media feel the need to "inform" people as to what is going on when they have no idea themselves? From what was said just a few minutes ago, those who were in the building were not being allowed to speak to anyone, including their families, about what happened until they were debriefed by LE. And that makes perfect sense.

Rest assured . . . before this is over, the "antis" are going to add it to their fodder to ban guns.
and this all occurred in Kalifornia . . . where gun laws are strict. My prediction is that as sad as this is, it will work as other incidents have . . . gun sales will go up. People are getting fed up the inability to protect themselves which is a "right". LE can only react "after the fact" and very rarely are in a position to "prevent" . . and this is nothing against LE.
But, the guv'ment is going to protect us . . . all you have to do is listen to their rhetoric.
after all, the spikes on top of the fence around the big house in Washington that were recently added to "keep people out" certainly worked well . . . just like our tight security along the border.


even though it's against "government policy" . . . let's all say a prayer for those victims involved and hope that they can apprehend those that did it. . . . .and they just came on that they have found them . . one killed and one wounded . . . time will tell if they got it right with the perps.

[Lee]

Kalifornica. Yep

To quote the ancient Chinese philosopher... :"Sum Ting Wong"


Big Pharma again strangely silent on this! ...... Lee

[JSnover]

Looks like all three are dead. What matters now is who they are, what is in their SUV and who, if anyone, claims responsibility.

[Bad Water Bill]

They just said all 3 shooters are accounted for.

Not sure if any are still alive.

[dragon813gt]

Cool, now I need to order two more barrels in the morning. I was putting it off because I didn't know how I wanted to build them. Looks like 223 Wylde it is. Also need furniture and BCGs now that I think about it. Great!

The news should be reporting the news, not conjecture. Everything is an OpEd piece anymore. Apparently none of them took a journalism class. Let alone know that journalists are supposed to report unbiased facts. Wonder if we will get any true facts from this one.

[Prospector Howard]

Sure looks like a terrorist attack so far. That didn't stop the ******* from immediately blaming the guns. It just happened and he was already on TV. Just listen to this idiot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHVpMmCu81M

[Love Life]

Cool, now I need to order two more barrels in the morning. I was putting it off because I didn't know how I wanted to build them. Looks like 223 Wylde it is. Also need furniture and BCGs now that I think about it. Great!

The news should be reporting the news, not conjecture. Everything is an OpEd piece anymore. Apparently none of them took a journalism class. Let alone know that journalists are supposed to report unbiased facts. Wonder if we will get any true facts from this one.

Dang. I'm not doing it again. I'm not getting knuckles deep in component buying. I'll enjoy what I have and see what the future holds for me.

[JSnover]

Shaking my head… Now there are anywhere from two to four others in various locations. At times like this it's best to shut off the news for a few hours, wait till they sort things out.

[dragon813gt]

Dang. I'm not doing it again. I'm not getting knuckles deep in component buying. I'll enjoy what I have and see what the future holds for me.

Having only some parts does me no good. I was going to buy everything on Black Friday and Cyber Monday but spent the money elsewhere. Buying what I don't want is pointless which is why I haven't bought anything. Oh well, it is what it is.

[Love Life]

I got mags for sale, lol.

[dragon813gt]

I got mags for sale, lol.

I don't. When a dealer at a show was selling 30rd Pmags for $8 apiece I bought all he had. I don't think this is going to cause a run. Between this, CO and the stupidity that comes out of the POSPOTUS it just sped up my timetable.

[winchester85]

in these cases, i doubt we will ever be told the truth.
i am glad the shooters are dead. but, dead guys can't talk about who sent them, or why. some gubmint people will decided what to tell us, that will be determined by someone's political agenda.

[Love Life]

Some random black guy said "It was a regular white dude!" in the vehicle that was shot up...

[JSnover]

Now instead of all three dead it looks like one or two dead, one or two in custody, one or two missing/barricaded, possibly a fifth or sixth on the run...

[Love Life]

One may possibly be female, or a dinosaur, according to live reports...

[historicfirearms]

Obama tried to tie this in in case it is terrorism. There is legislation pending that if you are a "terrorist" and on the no fly list, then you will not be allowed to buy a gun. Obama took the opportunity to say that terrorists shouldn't be allowed to buy guns. Well, no duh! The problem is the government can put anyone they want on the no fly list, no recourse or reason needed. How scary is that?

[JSnover]

Obama tried to tie this in in case it is terrorism. There is legislation pending that if you are a "terrorist" and on the no fly list, then you will not be allowed to buy a gun. Obama took the opportunity to say that terrorists shouldn't be allowed to buy guns. Well, no duh! The problem is the government can put anyone they want on the no fly list, no recourse or reason needed. How scary is that?
Now that's a lie. Even if they wore towels on their heads, shouted "Allahu Akbar," and drove off on camels, he would never call this terrorism.

[jonp]

This is a picture from the scene. It doesn't identify the origin of the brass, but doesn't report any shots fired by police. I am not good enough to identify the caliber from this picture. Can someone else identify it? Reportedly the shooters used AK47s, but the news people are notoriously bad at calling that sort of thing.



154706

Reportedly there were three shooters in military gear and left in a black SUV. I am not a conspiracy nut, but the "there's something wrong with this picture" bells are starting to ring.

7.62x39 looks to me as in AK

[jonp]

I don't. When a dealer at a show was selling 30rd Pmags for $8 apiece I bought all he had. I don't think this is going to cause a run. Between this, CO and the stupidity that comes out of the POSPOTUS it just sped up my timetable.

^^^word. My primer/brass/powder purchases just went into overdrive.

[dragon813gt]

7.62x39 looks to me as in AK

Hard to tell from the pic but it definitely doesn't look like 5.56. The case looks to fat. So let's say it's an AK. This happened in California so I'm assuming the firearms had bullet buttons, or non removable mags. And of course they didn't have bayonet lugs and other "evil features". Weren't these things banned there a long time ago? So that means if they had these features they were criminals for just possessing them. I don't know Cali's retarded laws but this shouldn't have been able to happen w/ all the laws on the books.

[Love Life]

Hard to tell from the pic but it definitely doesn't look like 5.56. The case looks to fat. So let's say it's an AK. This happened in California so I'm assuming the firearms had bullet buttons, or non removable mags. And of course they didn't have bayonet lugs and other "evil features". Weren't these things banned there a long time ago? So that means if they had these features they were criminals for just possessing them. I don't know Cali's retarded laws but this shouldn't have been able to happen w/ all the laws on the books.

I submit the following:

154711



Photo credit goes to Cheaper than Dirt.

[cat tech]

The photo of the spent cartridge doesn't have enough taper for a 7.62x39, however the mouth is to large in relation to the body to be 223. Given the quality of the media in this country this may in all actuality be a stock photo?

[dragon813gt]

Whatever it is, it fired a steel core bullet that can penetrate 2' of armor. See that, I'm now a bona fide journalist. You don't need facts, just make up something that will stir up emotions in the reader.

[dkf]

This is a picture from the scene. It doesn't identify the origin of the brass, but doesn't report any shots fired by police. I am not good enough to identify the caliber from this picture. Can someone else identify it? Reportedly the shooters used AK47s, but the news people are notoriously bad at calling that sort of thing.

154706

Reportedly there were three shooters in military gear and left in a black SUV. I am not a conspiracy nut, but the "there's something wrong with this picture" bells are starting to ring.

Looks like 5.45X39 used in the AK74.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I live here and I have no intention of leaving.

But I am starting to think that Concealed Permit might not be a bad idea.

Randy

[Plate plinker]

I live here and I have no intention of leaving.

But I am starting to think that Concealed Permit might not be a bad idea.

Randy
really ?? You don't say?

[Mica_Hiebert]

Looks like 5.45X39 used in the AK74.
except its brass cased... looks like a 308 to me and its not necessarily even from this incident could be a random pic inserted to add dramatizeation.

[Mica_Hiebert]

or you guys are assuming that because the media said he had an ar15 or an ak47 or an sks that it is true how bout a m1a? or there where 2-3-6-or posibly a woman and a t-rex with guns you dont need semi auto weapons to kill 14 people and wound 14 more... hell if im going into a gun free zone in sisified california i could accomplish this with a ruger number 1 and a pocket full of ammo! its all anti second amendment propaganda garbage! fear mongering at its finest! never let a good tragedy go to waste!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

looks like 556 to me

and then there is this...
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/12/02/multiple-victims-reported-shot-in-san-bernardino/


A federal law enforcement official said that there were two assault weapons found in the suspects’ SUV — AR15 style rifles. There were also two pistols found in the SUV. Investigators are tracing the weapons to determine if they were legally purchased, where, when and by whom.

[CGT80]

Hard to tell from the pic but it definitely doesn't look like 5.56. The case looks to fat. So let's say it's an AK. This happened in California so I'm assuming the firearms had bullet buttons, or non removable mags. And of course they didn't have bayonet lugs and other "evil features". Weren't these things banned there a long time ago? So that means if they had these features they were criminals for just possessing them. I don't know Cali's retarded laws but this shouldn't have been able to happen w/ all the laws on the books.

Maybe they were featureless rifles and preban standard cap mags, since you know the criminals (murderers) must have intended on following the law.

Luckily, I didn't bother to make deliveries in that area today. I was over there on Waterman on Monday and I will likely do deliveries over there tomorrow. My cousin's wife was in a building that was locked down due to a bomb scare, but luckily is home now.

Concealed permits take 6-9 months to get in San Bernardino County, and I should really get mine.

[dkf]

except its brass cased... looks like a 308 to me and its not necessarily even from this incident could be a random pic inserted to add dramatizeation.

True, brass cased 5.45x39 is rare. They have it in Europe but not common here. The case looks too small for .308 but then again there is nothing really to gauge the size of of. Could be 6.8spc.

[Mica_Hiebert]

federal law enforcement official said there where 2 assault rifles found in the vehicle so by definition must have been fully automatic... :popcorn:
ar15 is just a modern sporting rifle.

[dkf]

A picture was posted of the weapons used.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm285/SDV10/A%20Salt%20Rifle.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/SDV10/media/A%20Salt%20Rifle.jpg.html)

[GaryN]

Hahahahaha, I like that!!!

[Bad Water Bill]

Can you verify how many granules per minute it fires?:bigsmyl2:

[Mica_Hiebert]

A 30 magazine clip in half a second!

[nemesisenforcer]

or you guys are assuming that because the media said he had an ar15 or an ak47 or an sks that it is true how bout a m1a? or there where 2-3-6-or posibly a woman and a t-rex with guns you dont need semi auto weapons to kill 14 people and wound 14 more... hell if im going into a gun free zone in sisified california i could accomplish this with a ruger number 1 and a pocket full of ammo! its all anti second amendment propaganda garbage! fear mongering at its finest! never let a good tragedy go to waste!

Tell us how how you really feel. :D;-):lol:

[Mica_Hiebert]

Tell us how how you really feel. :D;-):lol:

I feel like the media is really quick to throw out terms like "assault rifles" but not the middle eastern name the police where searching for or the reason a group of midle easterners would shoot up an office christmas party im going to guess its not over a fax machine or a stapler but it is not radical islams fault it is the guns fault.

[Mica_Hiebert]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4643205760001/shooting-suspects-possible-motivations/?fb_ref=Default#sp=show-clips

[smokeywolf]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/us/san-bernardino-shooting/

MSM got the "assault" part right, but from the first paragraph of this, maybe there should be more concern over "assault muslims".

[Whiterabbit]

All politics aside, that is a stingingly LAME place to go shoot up. C'mon man, ppl with disabilities? This puts this shooting in a particularly hateful light and I hope the scoundrels are hunted and killed like rabid animals. Whoever thought this one up doesn't DESERVE due process.

Wrong. EVERYONE deserves due process. I hope whoever is left alive, if any, get caught, interrogated, motives discovered, speedy trial, and quick trip to the gallows. Simple.

The last thing we need is every crime committed in this country to be defined as domestic terrorism, where the suspected perpetrator is stripped of his right to Due Process and treated like a war criminal or worse. Last thing we need. Might make everyone happy when some shooter like this is raked over the open coals, but won't be so nice when we all get put on the no-fly list, listed as domestic terror suspects and have our own rights stripped from us.

Again. Due process for all. speedy trial, including the trip to the gallows.

I hope, now that the guy was identified as a muslim, that the baloney about it being terrorism dies, and that the left puts its tail between its legs and mumbles about due process and all that, decides this is a criminal act, and I hope to God whoever is left alive stays that way to face justice.

-------

Worst case, everyone dies, we never know the motive, and noone left for the left to blame but guns.

[Mica_Hiebert]

I dont much care for the Communist News Network.

[Col4570]

Lethal Injections or the Electric Chair are the answer to any atrocities of this nature.Until we absolutely know who the perps represent they have proved nothing by this outrage.Extra ordinary Laws must be brought in to combat these events ie Zero Tolerance,stop and search,spot raids,Guantanamo type incarceration for suspects no matter what ideology they follow.911,Oklahoma,the London Bombings,Mumbai,Bali,Paris and now C A are all indications of sicknesses that must be eradicated at all cost.

[NavyVet1959]

Lethal Injections or the Electric Chair are the answer to any atrocities of this nature.Until we absolutely know who the perps represent they have proved nothing by this outrage.Extra ordinary Laws must be brought in to combat these events ie Zero Tolerance,stop and search,spot raids,Guantanamo type incarceration for suspects no matter what ideology they follow.911,Oklahoma,the London Bombings,Mumbai,Bali,Paris and now C A are all indications of sicknesses that must be eradicated at all cost.

I don't think that you will find much sympathy for the idea of "stop and search" in most of the US (i.e. the parts of the US that are not already populated by a vast majority of sheep).

And you were probably doing OK in your comparisons until you mentioned Oklahoma. That was not terrorism, that was a retaliatory strike in response to a government manufactured incident. Maybe a misguided response, but I do not think that it should technically be classified as terrorism. No more so than when we target command and control centers and end up with collateral damages.

[jonp]

A picture was posted of the weapons used.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm285/SDV10/A%20Salt%20Rifle.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/SDV10/media/A%20Salt%20Rifle.jpg.html)

At least you wouldn't have to worry about using it in the rain. Bullets would still pour out of it

[jonp]

The photo of the spent cartridge doesn't have enough taper for a 7.62x39, however the mouth is to large in relation to the body to be 223. Given the quality of the media in this country this may in all actuality be a stock photo?

It looked like enough taper to me for the AK round. To big for 223. I don't know what else they might be using. I didn't get a look at the actual gun as the closeups of the scene would not go close enough to see but it was obviously a black rifle with a magazine and looked like it may have had the shape of an AK. My first thought seeing it was that it wasn't a typical AR style rifle. Only other thing I could think of is it might be a 308 from an AR-10. Your right, though. I hadn't thought that it might be a stock photo.

[jonp]

True, brass cased 5.45x39 is rare. They have it in Europe but not common here. The case looks too small for .308 but then again there is nothing really to gauge the size of of. Could be 6.8spc.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist/ammo-shooting/rifle-ammo/762x39mm-ammo?d=121&c=96&s=953

Not rare but not usual. I would think it rarer for someone to bust out a 6.8 or 50 Beowolf for a shooting like this.

[Boyscout]

I couldn't believe the stuff I was hearing on the Fox Radio news network. Some moron was talking about how body armour should be illegal and controlled. As if Johnie Jihad with no longer want to slaughter people if he can't wear a bullet proof vest. They must carry a 3x5 card of Administration talking points with them everywhere they go.

[white eagle]

its very sad indeed
I saw a news clip on Obama and the first thing out of his
mouth was gun control.Should we take ol Hillary's approach and
shower the perp's with sunshine and lollypop's
both of them for that matter all politicians that have armed security
give it up send them home then talk about gun control
Cali has the strictest gun laws / and where did this happen?
I saw all the cops carrying ar's and none of them went on a wild shooting spree
What up Obama?Might be level headed Americans don't do those things,not sure just a guess.
It is a terrible thing that happened and I wish those families that lost love ones peace

[Artful]

A federal law enforcement official said that there were two assault weapons found in the suspects’ SUV — AR15 style rifles. There were also two pistols found in the SUV. Investigators are tracing the weapons to determine if they were legally purchased, where, when and by whom.

Place your bets - How many think it will be fully compliant 10 round magazine Kali-regulated bullet button AR? How many think they will be made from 80% DIY lowers with all the evil features that are legal in "free" states? And those evil pistols that were not used in the initial murders, are they Kali-DOJ approved "safe" pistols.

When will the media learn it's not the tool but the tool wielder... Instead of the "tactical vest" or "bullet proof" vest it's the hate speech of Islam - which cleric's orders was his marching orders?

Latest update from ATF

ATF tells CNN that one of the guns used in the shooting was legally purchased and traces back to someone believe to be connect with the shooting. The agency would not disclose the name of the purchaser.

Now question is was it one of the rifles or handguns?

[historicfirearms]

These two were Muslims, and the police suspected it was Islamic terrorism in the first hour after the shooting. Didn't hear that on CBS news yesterday, big surprise. Instead they time and again blamed it on the gun.

[Prospector Howard]

Yep, nothing but mass shooting talk; not calling it what it was: a terrorist act. A Mooslim and his Saudi Mooslim wife. They decided to attack people he worked with instead of random victims, so they'll call it a workplace mass shooting now. This is why it's a bad idea to import tens and hundreds of thousands of so called refugees from the middle east. No matter how well you vet them, they can become radicalized. I'll bet his wife that he brought in two years ago from the middle east helped to radicalize the idiot. Nothing but gun control talk on the "news" this morning. This is bad all the way around, but especially for the victims of these jihadi psychos.

[smokeywolf]

Place your bets - How many think it will be fully compliant 10 round magazine Kali-regulated bullet button AR? How many think they will be made from 80% DIY lowers with all the evil features that are legal in "free" states? And those evil pistols that were not used in the initial murders, are they Kali-DOJ approved "safe" pistols.

When will the media learn it's not the tool but the tool wielder... Instead of the "tactical vest" or "bullet proof" vest it's the hate speech of Islam - which cleric's orders was his marching orders?

Latest update from ATF


Now question is was it one of the rifles or handguns?

It's not a question of "when will the media learn it's not the tool, but the tool wielder..." The media knows this and sees no benefit in publishing the truth. They publish whatever will please the current administration and assure continued access to the political movers and shakers.

Media is little more than a propaganda machine for whomever currently has the most political leverage. Unfortunately history has shown that those with the most political power are oft times also the most corrupt.

[Prospector Howard]

So this is what the clown in the White House also said (after he already knew of the attack in CA), without knowing who carried out the attack. He has to be the most brain damaged idiot to ever occupy DC. This also leads me to think that we'll never know the real truth about what motive was. If it was a true terrorist ISIS linked attack, they'll bury the facts and it'll just be a workplace mass shooting blaming the guns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u6s3Do9n_A

[popper]

308W but who knows when, where or who shot it. As it is by itself, I assume a 'spoof'. No 'evidence' tag like you see on TV.

[Artful]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-bernardino-shooting-atf-says-all-4-guns-bought-legally/


ATF: All 4 guns used by San Bernardino suspects bought legally


Last Updated Dec 3, 2015 10:23 AM EST

All four guns used by the suspects (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-bernardino-shooting-suspects-syed-rizwan-farook-tashfeen-malik-home-raid/) in the deadly San Bernardino shooting (http://www.cbsnews.com/feature/san-bernardino-mass-shooting/) have been traced and they were all purchased legally, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives confirmed Thursday.

CBS News' Paula Reid reports that two of the guns were purchased by someone who is already known by investigators.

Meredith Davis of the ATF says investigators are now working to make a connection to the last legal purchaser. She says all four guns were bought four years ago but she's not saying whether they were purchased out of state or how and when they got into the hands of the two shooters.

Davis says California requires paperwork when guns change hands privately but many other states don't. She also says the rifles involved were .223-caliber - powerful enough to pierce the standard protective vest worn by police officers, and some types of ammo can even plow through walls.

The ATF told CBS News that the traces of the guns were completed within a couple of hours of the request being submitted.

Late Wednesday night, San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan identified the suspects as Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen Malik, 27 (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-bernardino-shooting-authorities-respond-to-active-gunman/). They were believed to be the only shooters and both were killed during a shootout with police.

Burguan says the suspects were wearing "assault-style clothing" and were both armed with assault rifles and handguns.

The suspects were wearing tactical-style clothing that was "loaded with magazines for a gunfight," Davis said.

Davis said the suspects also threw a thick-gauge copper pipe out of the SUV, but no explosives were found inside.

The fake pipe bomb was equipped with a piece of material made to look like a wick.


OK, so where's the eye witness'd 3rd shooter? Have they arrested the straw purchaser or are these maybe some of the "fast and furious" mexico guns - not releasing more info as usual - but look for a push to have all states adopt private purchased firearms having to go thru dealers in the future.

[pressonregardless]

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-dramatic-video-shows-police-storming-inland-regional-center-20151202-story.html

San Bernardino shooting: Dramatic video shows police storming Inland Regional Center


http://www.trbimg.com/img-565f6ca7/turbine/la-me-police-storm-inland-regional-center-vid-20151202/550/550x309 (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-dramatic-video-shows-police-storming-inland-regional-center-20151202-story.html#)
Dorothy Vong, a nurse at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, recorded this video around 11 a.m. to send to her husband, thinking it was a active-shooter drill.




http://www.trbimg.com/img-53603d05/turbine/la-bio-paloma-esquivel/70/70x70Paloma Esquivel (http://www.latimes.com/la-bio-paloma-esquivel-staff.html#nt=byline)Contact Reporter


At first, Dorothy Vong assumed it was a drill -- just like all the others at her work.
At the Inland Regional Center, where she’s a nurse, the staff works with clients and parents of clients who are sometimes angry. They have active-shooter drills every month or so.
“Drill started,” she texted her husband, Mark, around 11 a.m.
She walked to a window nearby and filmed a video as law enforcement sprinted toward the building.

“Oh, that is scary,” a voice says calmly in the background.
“They’re all geared up!” someone else says. “Rifles and everything!”
In the background, someone laughs -- they still didn’t know.
Then the reality set in.
She texted her husband again: “Well it’s real.”
http://www.trbimg.com/img-566075ea/turbine/la-me-san-bernardino-shooting-pictures-20151202/550/550x309
Fourteen people were killed when two attackers opened fire at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino. (http://www.latimes.com/local/la-san-bernardino-shooting-sg-20151202-storygallery.html)




And then a few minutes later, another message: “We’re in a locked office.”
Mark Vong said he told his wife to stay calm and not to panic.
“They train for this,” he said, standing outside a police barricade Wednesday afternoon. “They know it’s going to happen.”
http://www.trbimg.com/img-565f5057/turbine/la-live-updates-shooting-sl/300/300x169 (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-live-updates-htmlstory.html)Live updates: Syed Farook named as a suspect in attack that killed 14 (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-live-updates-htmlstory.html)

The shooter or shooters who attacked the center apparently opened fire on a Christmas party being held by county employees, federal law enforcement sources and a witness told the Los Angeles Times.
The shooting, which left at least 14 injured and at least 14 dead, happened on the grounds of the Inland Regional Center, which serves people with developmental disabilities in Riverside and San Bernardino counties.

[Col4570]

I don't think that you will find much sympathy for the idea of "stop and search" in most of the US (i.e. the parts of the US that are not already populated by a vast majority of sheep).

And you were probably doing OK in your comparisons until you mentioned Oklahoma. That was not terrorism, that was a retaliatory strike in response to a government manufactured incident. Maybe a misguided response, but I do not think that it should technically be classified as terrorism. No more so than when we target command and control centers and end up with collateral damages.

In what way was Oklahoma not an act of terrorism since many innocents where targeted that day. I would say that anyone who perpetrates an act like that should be categorised as a terrorist.

[Artful]

In what way was Oklahoma not an act of terrorism since many innocents where targeted that day. I would say that anyone who perpetrates an act like that should be categorised as a terrorist.

Oklahoma bombing most certainly was Terrorism


ter·ror·ism
ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun



the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

[NavyVet1959]

In what way was Oklahoma not an act of terrorism since many innocents where targeted that day. I would say that anyone who perpetrates an act like that should be categorised as a terrorist.

If you look it is objectively, I believe that an argument could be made that it was not terrorism. The killing on innocents in and of itself does not make it terrorism. Is the US guilty of terrorism when we kill innocents (who are only guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time) when we target the Taliban / ISIS camel-shaggers? I just don't see where McVeigh's purpose was terrorism as opposed to just a targeted response against what he considered a "valid military target". From what I've read, McVeigh apparently turned down certain potential targets because of there being a potential for too many civilian (i.e. non-military, non-government) casualties.

[Col4570]

No nation can tolerate an enemy within ,therefore any who use violence as opposed to the Ballot box are traitors to the populace and can be regarded as Terrorists in my opinion.Not that I wish to involve myself with U.S politics but I would think that it would apply in any free society.

[FISH4BUGS]

I'm ordering three more stripped lowers in the morning.

I wound up getting 5 stripped Anderson lowers @ $55 each out the door from my LGS. Put them on lay away. My Christmas present to me.

[Prospector Howard]

Some good stuff in this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIE1kWqQvsk

[StolzerandSons]

No nation can tolerate an enemy within ,therefore any who use violence as opposed to the Ballot box are traitors to the populace and can be regarded as Terrorists in my opinion.Not that I wish to involve myself with U.S politics but I would think that it would apply in any free society.
When redress of grievance to those in power no longer works(the ballot box is broken or the monarch chooses to ignore the colony) then revolution is sometimes needed to set a new course in Gov't. If a few of our founding fathers had not acted like terrorists(think Boston tea party) then we would still be a colony...even so I can see since you call England home why you would have the view point that you do. Are you looking forward to the day when Charles rules the empire? Ohh that's right you don't get to vote on that one do you.

[Bonz]

The finally showed the photos on the news. they used a couple of AR 15's chambered in .223. news guy said they were obviously terrorists because they had over 5000 rounds/bullets in their house...

[Powder Burn]

Prosperctor Howard...great clip.

In summary:

154848

[Col4570]

When redress of grievance to those in power no longer works(the ballot box is broken or the monarch chooses to ignore the colony) then revolution is sometimes needed to set a new course in Gov't. If a few of our founding fathers had not acted like terrorists(think Boston tea party) then we would still be a colony...even so I can see since you call England home why you would have the view point that you do. Are you looking forward to the day when Charles rules the empire? Ohh that's right you don't get to vote on that one do you.
No we do,nt get to vote for the succession of the Monarchy but bear in mind that we have a Parliament to run the Nation,The Royal Family are figure heads who must be consulted prior to Governmental decisions.This works well and has done for many centuries and although we have had our Civil Wars in the Past a Working Pattern has developed just as it has in the USA.Of course in the event of Government or monarchy being despotic then the rules for the populace would alter.Our Queen is much respected through out the commonwealth and so will Prince Charles when he ascends to the Throne.On a light note do you think we could possibly have the United States back.

[JSnover]

On a light note do you think we could possibly have the United States back.
No, but you can have our figurehead.

[mac60]

No, but you can have our figurehead.

I haven't had a really good laugh for quite a while, but that there is funny!

[Col4570]

I haven't had a really good laugh for quite a while, but that there is funny!

Yes it is great to hear a good sense of humour in these disturbing times.

[blackthorn]

Quote "No, but you can have our figurehead."


If you take theirs---we have a son of a ----figurehead you can take too. PLEEEEZE?

[Artful]

Meredith Davis, with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said that while the weapons were purchased legally, they had undergone a number of illegal adjustments afterwards.

One of the weapons had been modified to allow it to fire on fully-automatic mode, while the other was fitted with a large magazine and had the 'bullet button' removed to allow for quicker reloading.

California law bans the sale of weapons with magazines holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition, but it is not known how many bullets the weapons used in this week's attack could hold.

The adjustments mean the rifles, a .223 caliber Smith & Wesson M&P 15 and a .223 caliber DPMS A-15, would violate California's ban on assault weapons, Davis told the Wall Street Journal (http://www.wsj.com/articles/rifles-used-in-san-bernardino-shooting-illegal-under-state-law-1449201057).

The state has some of the toughest gun control laws in America, allowing the sale of handguns and assault-style rifles, but banning the sale of fully-automatic weapons.

All rifles sold in the state must also be fitted with a 'bullet button' - meaning the magazine must be removed by using the tip of a bullet to trip the release mechanism, rather than a quick-release catch.

In total, Farook and Malik were carrying four guns - the two rifles and two semi-automatic handguns - and were in possession of 12 pipe bombs and around 4,500 rounds of ammunition.


President Obama used his weekly address on Saturday to highlight the need for the country to crack down on gun laws.

‘We know that the kills in San Bernardino used military-style assault weapons – weapons of war – to kill as many people as they could,’ he said.

It’s another tragic reminder that here in America it’s way too easy for dangerous people to get their hands on a gun.’
He added: ‘Right now, people on the No-Fly list can walk into a store and buy a gun. That is insane.
‘If you’re too dangerous to board a plane, you’re too dangerous, by definition, to buy a gun.’

Mr Obama insisted that the United States ‘will not be terrorized’ and renewed his call for tighter gun control measures, in a weekly address that focused on the deadly shooting.

Mr Obama vowed that investigators would ‘get to the bottom’ of how and why the rampage occurred.
‘It is entirely possible that these two attackers were radicalized to commit this act of terror,’ he said.
‘We know that ISIL and other terrorist groups are actively encouraging people – around the world and in our country – to commit terrible acts of violence, often times as lone wolf actors.

‘All of us – government, law enforcement, communities, faith leaders – need to work together to prevent people from falling victim to these hateful ideologies.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3347264/Relatives-burqa-wearing-San-Bernadino-shooter-pledged-allegiance-ISIS-killing-14-say-Pakistan-born-jihadi-bride-used-wear-Western-dress-conservative-three-years-ago.html

[dragon813gt]

He is such a ***.

[dolang1]

He is such a ***.
Well said.

[Bad Water Bill]

I wonder if he has the approval of his mullah to make such a speech?

Or is just Valery Jarets approval all that is necessary?

[JSnover]

I wonder if he has the approval of his mullah to make such a speech?

Or is just Valery Jarets approval all that is necessary?

You got it backwards. After he makes the speech he gives the Mullahs green light for the next attack.

[Col4570]

We are dealing with fanaticism worldwide,on Saturday evening 5th December there was an incident at Leytonstone Railway Station.A Muslim shouting this is for Syria stabbed three people in random Knife attacks,one victim has serious wounds to the Neck the other two have minor wounds.The Police quickly tazered the perp and have him in custody.Although the incident was speedily brought to a satisfactory conclusion citizens need to be vigilant since the same type of thing could happen on a street near any of us.This brings us back to the personal security weapons debate since one to one policing is impossible.

[NavyVet1959]

The Police quickly tazered the perp and have him in custody.Although the incident was speedily brought to a satisfactory conclusion citizens need to be vigilant since the same type of thing could happen on a street near any of us.This brings us back to the personal security weapons debate since one to one policing is impossible.

Some of us here might argue that was not a "satisfactory conclusion".

[starmac]

I noticed they had no problem calling a spade a spade either. He was a terrorist, probably without even starting an investigation.

[Col4570]

Some of us here might argue that was not a "satisfactory conclusion".
I agree they should have Glocked him.I have no time for his nutcase ideology he should have been despatched.On the other hand they may be able to squeeze some info from him with a little not so gentle persuasion,anyway he will rot in jail and have plenty of time to ruminate on the false agenda he follows.

[blackthorn]

The theory behind incarceration is that it will "rehabilitate" the offender into a productive member of society. I do not believe a terrorist can be "rehabilitated" because it did what it did because of some fanatical belief and nobody is going to change that. Similar to a mad dog, once someone is proven to be guilty of either planning or of an actual act of terrorism, he/she should be put down. Death sentence should be mandatory with no "plea" bargaining!

[Bad Water Bill]

The theory behind incarceration is that it will "rehabilitate" the offender into a productive member of society.

The only place I have heard of that working is with SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO

IIRC only 15% of his "GRADUATES" ever return to his prison in the desert.

[Col4570]

When redress of grievance to those in power no longer works(the ballot box is broken or the monarch chooses to ignore the colony) then revolution is sometimes needed to set a new course in Gov't. If a few of our founding fathers had not acted like terrorists(think Boston tea party) then we would still be a colony...even so I can see since you call England home why you would have the view point that you do. Are you looking forward to the day when Charles rules the empire? Ohh that's right you don't get to vote on that one do you.
By the way I do recognise your sarcasm and take it for what it is worth.

[StolzerandSons]

What sarcasm, I was serious.

In remarks to the World Islamic Economic Forum meeting in London this week, Prince Charles described the bloody Syria conflict as a “terrifyingly graphic” example of the negative effects of climate change. Prince Charles - Oct. 2013

Climate change causes civil war?
Since you like him so much can we send you a like minded John Kerry(he thinks terrorism is caused by climate change)?

[Doggonekid]

The news media has confirmed that we might have a problem?

[smoked turkey]

I was thinking of the differences in the responses between President Bush immediately after the 9-11 World Trade Center attacks, and those of the current so called president (small p here) after the tragic shootings in Calif. President Bush almost immediately called it a terrorist attack and went after the guilty party. This president immediately goes after the innocent American gun owners and the NRA as those most responsible for this attack and the biased news reporters called Wayne LaPierre the terrorist. We have come a long way baby! Now is the time to show our support for our 2nd Amendment by getting behind the NRA with our voices and our money. We must become involved and most of all vote for all candidates that promote freedom first.

[Col4570]

What sarcasm, I was serious.
Prince Charles - Oct. 2013

Climate change causes civil war?
Since you like him so much can we send you a like minded John Kerry(he thinks terrorism is caused by climate change)?
So you where serious !well it takes all sorts to make up humanity.I am willing to listen to all sides of a debate providing the input does,nt get personal.By the way who is John Kerry ?

[jcwit]

Our Seceratory of State, no less.

[Artful]

Anyone know more about the money side of this?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...urce-says.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/07/bank-records-show-28500-deposit-to-syed-farooks-account-two-weeks-before-shooting-source-says.html)

Bank records show $28,500 deposit to Syed Farook's account two weeks before the shooting, source says

A $28,500 deposit was made to Syed Farook’s bank account from WebBank.com on or about Nov.18, some two weeks before he and his wife Tashfeen Malik carried out the San Bernardino massacre, a source close to the investigation told Fox News Monday.

[Prospector Howard]

Watching the fake "news" this morning was pretty funny. Every one of the presidential candidates in both parties and the news idiots are attacking Trump for his speech yesterday. I've never liked Trump in the past for being an egomaniac, but he's the only one that's making any sense at all. To heck with the rest of them. What do you think?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBIxd_o2OwA

[Col4570]

I agree with Donald,Ban them the world has its quota.

[Artful]

http://news.yahoo.com/online-lender-prosper-made-28-500-loan-california-182000404.html


NEW YORK (Reuters) - Online lender Prosper recently made a $28,500 loan to Syed Rizwan Farook who, along with his wife, killed 14 people at a holiday party last week in San Bernardino, California, according to a source familiar with the matter.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation is examining financial activity they engaged in before their attack, a U.S. government source said earlier on Tuesday.

Authorities have said that Farook, 28, and wife Tashfeen Malik, 29, were radicalized Muslims who committed an act of terror. While investigations into such attacks often focus on how they were financed, the Reuters source and two other informed government officials said there are no indications the money trail in this case links the couple with any foreign group.

(Reporting by Michael Erman; Editing by Jonathan Oatis)

[Powder Burn]

Must have been the good fairy. Oh look, $28,000 just showed up in the account hun. Guess we can pay some bills before we go out and slaughter some people.