Annealing The Neck On .308 Brass

[Bonz]

I am just about ready to start reloading .308 and am curious to see what the popular opinion is on annealing the necks on .308 brass before reloading it.

Is this something that 'has' to be done or just 'recommended' to be done before reloading a brass case in .308 ?

[leadman]

I usually only anneal the case necks if I have reformed it from another cartridge. I have reloaded 30-06 cases up to 10 times with no annealing. By then the primer pockets tend to be loose.
If you get split necks then you should anneal. The old "heat until red" is too hot. I use a heat stick that is like a crayon but the mark changes color when a predetermined temperature is reached. I use a 400 degree stick and mark the shoulder.

[rr2241tx]

Depends. Most factory brass is annealed when it leaves the factory and if you aren't working your brass much you might not need to anneal right away. You should trim and chamfer before use though. If you're starting from used brass, anneal and run through a small base die then do all the other prep.

[plainsman456]

I usually do it if i have trouble with seating a bullet.

I don't do it all the time but it helps.

[Bonz]

Definitely going to be used brass only. Have a bunch that I got here last year in the Christmas swapping and have picked up some at the indoor range. I will probably be buying some once fired military brass once I get going. Just ordered my first .308 rifle, hasn't even shipped yet. I did splurge and buy 200 rounds of factory to warm up the new rifle with.

I greatly appreciate the advise !

[GRUMPA]

The thing about annealing the neck is it'll want to expand to your chamber quicker and easier. After they've been expanded to your chamber it's easier for the person to customize the case for a better fit. Out of all the brass I ship out I would say that no less than 98% of it gets annealed.

Of course over time through work hardening it'll get brittle, but by then most times it's time to retire the case since most of the time the primer pocket starts to fail.

[dragon813gt]

It will not hurt to anneal the necks. As long as you don't heat the case up to much and ruin it. There are no drawbacks to annealing. I do it to all new to me brass. After that it's rifle dependent on how often it needs to be done.

[Bonz]

I had read a few times that average .308 brass can be reloaded up to 7 times. So if I don't see any defects in the case and the primer pocket is still tight enough to securely hold the primer, I can go ahead and reload the case ? Or do I need to keep track of how many times that it has been reloaded ? On pistol brass, I reload it until it fails.

[GRUMPA]

That info is where folks have to lean back in there chair and start using the ole brain pan.

Things seem to be based on averages, the average chamber size, the average load, the average semi-auto, the average bolt gun etc.

Mileage can and will vary to a point, some more than others.

If you have a chamber that's a bit larger than some out there plan on things like the neck expanding more than others. Also take into account how much your dies squeeze the neck down, and how much that neck expands when the expander is run through it.

Your going to get what I call variables till you yourself sit down and do the numbers.

I've read some mild to wild stories at times, some I take with a grain of salt.

Basically your going to experience small variables, so you wont really know till you load a few and use them to come up with an absolute answer based on what you own...

[toallmy]

You probley wont have a problem with your brass . You can find 308 brass by the buckets full . But it wont hurt to get the experance take out a few old brass and play with it. I have tried it with a few pices when I necked down some mil. Brass to use in a 243 but found it was not needed for my purpouse. Full resizing and triming will probley fix you up . But I hope GRUMPA goes into some detale I think he is probley an expert on heating them up.

[toallmy]

You probley wont have a problem with your brass . You can find 308 brass by the buckets full . But it wont hurt to get the experance take out a few old brass and play with it. I have tried it with a few pices when I necked down some mil. Brass to use in a 243 but found it was not needed for my purpouse. Full resizing and triming will probley fix you up . But I hope GRUMPA goes into some detale I think he is probley an expert on heating them up.

[toallmy]

Well I did it agan . Sorry im not getting better at this computer thingie. But by the way all brass is not the same some brands are harder or more likeley to split its neck than outhers..

[atr]

I anneal when the brass gets hard to work or when I get neck splits when re-sizing...usually after about 10 reloads. Its been my experience that you will get more reloads if you only neck size.

[Blackwater]

I have some old '06 brass that has been reloaded more than 20x each and it's still in good looking shape. I'd anneal the necks only when I started seeing chips rather than curls coming off when trimming, and always kept my sizer die adjusted to the headspace for my rifle by setting it just so the cases would just close with a minimum of feel on the downstroke. This really helps case life, but these days, it's "too much trouble" for most folks to do that, so they get shorter brass life. Adjusting your sizer die so it sizes the brass a bare minimum for good feeding helps case life, and also centers the case in the chamber, and helps accuracy a bit. As with anything, it's the little things that make the difference, and most people don't care enough to tend to them. That's why many say that brass can't be sized more than about 7 times. They make it that way with their choice of processes. If you have multiple guns in a single caliber, you can't custom adjust the sizer for each rifle unless you get a new sizer die for each rifle and keep them marked as to which die is adjusted for which rifle. I've done that before, and it's always hard to keep them marked effectively. A carbide tipped engraving machine should do it, though.

[georgerkahn]

I have used a socket-wrench socket to hold brass, as well as the Hornady version -- both with a Bernz-O-matic torch; I then mover up to a circular Bernz-O-matic torch head Todd Kindler (The Wood-Chucks Den (http://www.woodchuckden.com/catalog/catalog2015.pdf ) purveys; now I use one purveyed by Giraud. I got tired of splitting brass and throwing away (to scrap brass bucket) too much... Since I "discovered" the benefits of annealing, I do a major prep: flash holes, case length, and annealing of ALL brass ('cept short pistol calibers). I use a magic marker on primers to code each firing -- using the VIBGYOR schema, where 1st reload gets blue; 2nd, green; third, yellow, and 4th red. The 5th gets black, and after that shooting, I re-anneal.
I believe the general unavailability of most of the brass I reload and shoot necessitates the advantages of annealing (.30REM, .32REM, and similar). I don't know if I helped answer your query -- but I shared what I do.
BEST!
geo

[John Boy]

Anneal down to the shoulder ... How to?
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

[Bonz]

Anneal down to the shoulder ... How to?
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

Some great info here, thanks !

[Bonz]

I bought the Lee Ultimate 308 reloading die set to start out with.

[dragon813gt]

The RCBS Xdie is an option if you don't want to deal w/ trimming the brass.

[silverjay]

I use all Lake City brass and anneal fairly often. I don't set the shoulder back very far and get uneven results after three firings so I anneal after two resizing operations. Watch for case head separation on used brass. If sized to normal die instructions I see thinning inside the brass at the head after three trips through a M14. If sized to ft the chamber life is much longer.

[HangFireW8]

There is a disadvantage to annealing, and that is more variable neck tension/bullet pull. However only an accurate rifle and shooter will know the difference.

Neck sizing increases brass life at the shoulder, so does partial full length sizing, but to really get good long brass life, you need to lose the sizing ball and get a reamed or size button die. A separate shoulder die may be needed.

The idea is to size the brass only as much as needed, no more, allowing for springback of course. Conventional FL and NK dies greatly undersize the neck, then pull it eccentric over the sizing ball. The whole thing is a recipe for inaccuracy, and shorter brass life, but makes less measuring and setup demands on the reloader.

[scottfire1957]

I am just about ready to start reloading .308 and am curious to see what the popular opinion is on annealing the necks on .308 brass before reloading it.

Is this something that 'has' to be done or just 'recommended' to be done before reloading a brass case in .308 ?



Simple question, since I don't reload .308, but I do reload for several other rifle calbers.

If I started reloading .308, why would I need to worry about annealing that round, as opposed to other rifle rounds, such as .223, or 30-06, or .243, IF the source of brass were the same? (Range pick ups perhaps, for example)

[oldfart1956]

Hey Bonz once you start shooting some of that brass in your gun here's something you might want to do. You mentioned in post 18 that you bought the Lee Ultimate dies (great choice) and one of those dies is a neck sizing only die. If you can (depends on the gun) go to neck sizing only. Also, take the die apart and identify the bits inside. Now, assumeing you'll want to load some cast boolits, order in a .303B decapping mandrel part # NS2628 (.303 british) and the accompanying collet sleeve part # NS2594 and replace the factory bits. The larger dia. of the British bits mean you won't be sizing the necks as much. (.3065 vs .3095 dia of the mandrels) I do this for the 30/30 and it saves a lot of sizing down and expanding back up for .311 dia. boolits. Less working the brass=longer life. Audie...the Oldfart.. P.S. Titan doesn't list the collet sleeve but ask and they will get it.

[HangFireW8]

Simple question, since I don't reload .308, but I do reload for several other rifle calbers.

If I started reloading .308, why would I need to worry about annealing that round, as opposed to other rifle rounds, such as .223, or 30-06, or .243, IF the source of brass were the same? (Range pick ups perhaps, for example)

The primary concern is that autoloaders have larger chambers and begin extraction in dirty chambers at the tail end of the stiction phase, stretching the brass.

Obviously the military caliber brass you may find are more likely to suffer from these issues.

[scottfire1957]

The primary concern is that autoloaders have larger chambers and begin extraction in dirty chambers at the tail end of the stiction phase, stretching the brass.

Obviously the military caliber brass you may find are more likely to suffer from these issues.

Thank you. So, would original poster have to anneal after every firing from an autoloader? I don't with my AR15s. What would make the .308 different? Should he simply worry about milsurp brass?

Edit: OP didn't state autoloader, single shot, or bolt action, or source of brass. Obviously, these are things he should consider.

[HangFireW8]

Shouldn't be necessary every reloading. The greater the mismatch between a large chamber and a tight die, and the higher pressure the load, the more often you need to anneal.

[scottfire1957]

So, he should treat .308 brass the same way he treats his other rifle brass?

Edit: To rephrase, it depends on rifle type, brass origin, and whatever else.

[Victor N TN]

When I was shooting benchrest a lot... Match every other weekend, After 6 to 10 firings with 6PPC and 22 PPC, annealing would restore elasticity to the case necks and allow the brass to be shot more.

Several years ago, I bought 3,000 rounds of Lake City fired brass in 5.56 - .223 It all cleaned up and loaded fine. After the first firing probably 60 to 70% had split case necks. Annealing before even cleaning it took care of that. On the last few hundred any way. If I had done it sooner on more of the brass, I could have had more to re-use.

[sparky508]

I had found with a batch of mixed head stamp brass for 300 win mag, that I could get a very consistent shoulder bump with the brass that I had annealed, vs a batch I had not. I did not calculate into my experiment, dwell time which I suspect would have also changed my outcome.

EDIT to add what I found, and I guess it wasn't mixed head stamp either.


Before and after sizing.
(First measurement prior to sizing)

Annealed, expander ball in place:
2.268_____2.260
2.267 _____2.260
2.267 _____2.259
2.269 _____2.259
2.271 _____2.260

Not annealed, expander ball in place
2.266_____2.263
2.272 _____2.265
2.266 _____2.264
2.26 _____2.263
2.268 _____2.263

Annealed, expander ball removed
2.273 _____2.260
2.270_____2.259
2.270 _____2.260
2.266 _____2.260
2.269_____2.260

Not annealed, expander ball removed
2.270 _____2.263
2.271_____ 2.264
2.269 _____2.263
2.269 _____2.264
2.270 _____2.265

Brass from number (4) annealed and then resized again
2.263_____2.260
2.264 _____2.260
2.263 _____2.260
2.265 _____2.260
2.265 _____2.260


Curious as to what effect the expander ball was having on the shoulder, I found some brass that was shorter than the sized brass and ran it through. It did not appear to change the length with either the annealed or non annealed brass. I was surprised that the expander ball was not measurably pulling on the necks, even on a couple of pieces that I had annealed to dead soft, although I did not record the measurements on them as they were each destroyed immediately there after.



Annealed and shorter than sized brass with expander ball installed
2.255_____2.255
2.257 _____2.257
2.256 _____2.256
2.255_____ 2.255

Not annealed and shorter than sized brass with expander ball installed
2.257_____2.257
2.256_____2.256
2.259_____2.259
2.255_____2.255


So as I figured, the annealed brass showed much less spring back then the non annealed and came out just slightly more consistent.

Brass annealed with hand held torch and quenched in water
Press RCBS Summit
RCBS full length sizing die (½ turn past shell holder contact)
Expander ball measured .306”
Hornady LNL bushing
Frankford Arsenal Digital Caliper
Hornady headspace gauge
Remington 300 WIN MAG brass from unknown origin

[Bonz]

Simple question, since I don't reload .308, but I do reload for several other rifle calbers.

If I started reloading .308, why would I need to worry about annealing that round, as opposed to other rifle rounds, such as .223, or 30-06, or .243, IF the source of brass were the same? (Range pick ups perhaps, for example)

I have a AK47 chambered in 5.56/223 that destroys the brass when I shoot it but it is a lot of fun. I normally pick up a lot at the shooting range and also buy a bunch of once fired Lake City brass to reload. Several of my friends that also reload said that I can get away with not annealing the 5.56/223 brass but I have to anneal the 308 brass or I'll end up not getting enough neck tension on the bullet/projectile.

154849

[Bonz]

Hey Bonz once you start shooting some of that brass in your gun here's something you might want to do. You mentioned in post 18 that you bought the Lee Ultimate dies (great choice) and one of those dies is a neck sizing only die. If you can (depends on the gun) go to neck sizing only. Also, take the die apart and identify the bits inside. Now, assumeing you'll want to load some cast boolits, order in a .303B decapping mandrel part # NS2628 (.303 british) and the accompanying collet sleeve part # NS2594 and replace the factory bits. The larger dia. of the British bits mean you won't be sizing the necks as much. (.3065 vs .3095 dia of the mandrels) I do this for the 30/30 and it saves a lot of sizing down and expanding back up for .311 dia. boolits. Less working the brass=longer life. Audie...the Oldfart.. P.S. Titan doesn't list the collet sleeve but ask and they will get it.

My wife actually let me buy a FN SCAR 17s for myself for Christmas. I'll probably only be loading with j-words (yes I said it but I do have a new Mihec .38/.357 mould on the way so you can't kick me out of the club ;-) )

[Doc Highwall]

Here is a company that is making a annealing machine, read what they have to say about annealing.

http://www.ampannealing.com/

[Bonz]

Here is a company that is making a annealing machine, read what they have to say about annealing.

http://www.ampannealing.com/

would love to have one but that is a lot of cash... the FAQ's do provide some great info

[Doc Highwall]

Mine is on order.