What am I doing wrong?

[DaveD]

Trying to cast with two new Lee Molds. I followed the instructions on the box and got some good boolits but lots of these type in the pictures as well. I tried letting the molds cool off, varying the heat, fluxing often. The 265 seemed to do it more than the 300 but, they both did it. Also, I could get one cavity to go well and the other not. I tried with mold release and with out. I am using a Lyman #2 equivalent mix.

Help me out guys............ :confused:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/opmech/Boolits1A.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/opmech/Boolits1.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/opmech/Boolits4.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/opmech/Boolits5.jpg

[charger 1]

Looks to be a couple things, but primarily your mold temp started to run away on ya

[randyrat]

Kinda looks like you opened the mold a little too fast on them. Cooled on the ends and hot in the middle? And you ripped a couple bases by opening the sprue too fast. Get your mold hot by dipping a corner in the hot lead(10 minutes) then pore a couple bullets and pore a little more on top of the sprue plate to help heat everything up more. (Could be something else it's early) It just kinda looks like hot in the middle and when you dropped them they gave way. Try a good hot mold then let the sprue puddle sink and cool then pop them out. Bad fill out on a couple of them could be dirty mold yet. You gotta have a real clean mold. I have always had good luck with a toothbrush and heavy soap and a good hot rinse. You should be able to open the sprue with your thump and drop the bullets out with no major banging on the mold.

[Ben]

Randyrat:

When you advise to dip the mold in the molten lead for 10 minutes, surely you mean 10 seconds ? ?

Ben

[725]

What randyrat said. If I'm reading the picture right, the midle section of the boolit is frosted, which is an indicator of high heat. Opening the mould too quick removes the support the boolit needs while forming. Tearing at the base of the boolit can also be from opening the mould too early.

[Bandit46]

If you don't have a Lyman lead thermometer, get one. Keep the temperature in the zone on the thermometer for the lead your using. I have the Lee pots, and sometimes they run away with the temps. Once you get a cadence with the solidification of the sprue and cool time, your bullets will be fine.

[SharpsShooter]

Randyrat:

When you advise to dip the mold in the molten lead for 10 minutes, surely you mean 10 seconds ? ?

Ben

I agree. The lee aluminum moulds are quick to warm up to casting temps. Even Iron or brass does not take 10 minutes. Gotta be a typo:-D

SS

[44man]

Slow down and relax. Develop the right cadence. Don't keep casting bad boolits until you solve what is wrong with the first bad one.
Hot water, dish soap and a toothbrush is the best for cleaning the mold. That is how I clean a new mold I just cut. It even takes off the WD-40 I use for a cutting lube. A lot of cleaners leave a residue behind. Not all brake cleaners are the same either. Even lacquer thinner will leave something.
Yes, it takes some thinking to learn to cast great boolits! :mrgreen:

[Boerrancher]

I agree with everyone here. It looks like the lead was too hot and the mold was open too soon. The mold may have been slightly dirty as well.

Every once in a while I still have rough frosted bullets. When I see this starting to happen, I turn the temp down a bit on my pot, set my mold on top of the pot all closed up, and go drink a small cup of coffee or smoke a cigarette. When I come back a few min later the mold and pot have cooled enough that I get nice smooth shiny boolits again.

Also take your time opening your mold. I was taught by an old caster not to strike off the sprue until it had gone from being shiny to a nice dull gray. If there seems to be any streaking of lead around the base of the bullet on to the mold, the lead was too hot when you struck off the sprue. This is something you really need to watch for because as it builds up it causes the sprue plate to actually lift up off of the mold making the base of the boolit uneven. This lead build up will actually cause unnecessary wear on the Lee style molds. On the old Lyman type molds, it will just give you boolits with bad bases, and anyone here will tell you the base is the most critical area of your boolit. The nose can be nasty looking and the boolit will still shoot reasonably well. Let the base be deformed on one, and it will shoot all over the map.

Best wishes,

CPT T

[Rick N Bama]

Get yourself a shallow bowl or saucer & keep a damp rag or sponge on/in it. After filling the mold, wipe the base of the mold across the rag or sponge to help set the boolit. I sometimes wipe it again when I feel like the mold is becoming too hot. You'll soon develop a 'feel' for how long & when to cool the mold down a bit. I have a Lee 429-310 that requires a lot of cooling to produce good looking boolits.

I'm no expert at all, but it's what works for me, as always, YMMV. Good luck in solving your problem.

Rick

[oso]

Looks like a case of shrunken boolit band syndrome. Reducing the fever may effect a cure as suggested above. Changing alloy may help, too. I've been luckier with plain old wheel weights.

[leftiye]

Believe it or not (check with Bass Ackwards - there may be No Rules that don't have exceptions), that might be a symptom of the fact that you're trying to make shiny boolits. Yes those are hot spots, but the rest of the boolit is freezing (instantly) upon contact (too cool), leaving only that area to shrink as it is the only part that remains unfrozen for any small period of time. If the whole boolit were lightly frosted, it would draw metal from the sprue puddle (if you were to make such, that is). Better fillout, smoother surface, more uniform weights. The only drawback is they're not shiny.

[scrapcan]

Are you castign with a laddle or a bottom pour pot? ARe you casting with the laddle or sput tight against the sprue plate?

It looks like a couple of the close ups show some voids, this could be caused by not letting the air escape out of mould. Yes we have vent lines but you can still get air entrainment on some woulds, especially lee aluminum moulds if there are burrs. Try to cast some with the mould just a bit tilted and the spout a little distance away from sprue hole, as you fill gently tip the the mould upright. And watch the sprue cool.

Oh and all the other stuff above, especially starting with a good clean mould.

[mtgrs737]

All the suggestions above and also you might try a fresh alloy, you may have some contaminated alloy that is causing you fill out/void/shrinking problems. Drain your pot, clean really good and try a fresh batch of known good well fluxed alloy to eliminate that variable. Good luck!

[TAWILDCATT]

Lee moulds need to be run hot.look at the sprue you can see it change from molten to hard.then cut.there are posts on how to prepare Lee molds.you pay less and you do a litle work cleaning them up.I stone the face,then break the edges of mold.lube the pins and the sprue plate and the handle hinge pin.once you learn how to prepare you will find they work great.I never had any trouble with Lee products.may be because I am willing to tinker a little.:coffee:--:Fire:

[DaveD]

Wow guys, thanks for all the suggestions! I am gonna take some time and make a list of all of these and just work the problem. Several of you suggested the toothbrush for cleaning - great idea. I will get a thermometer as well and keep track of the temps.

Along those lines, has anyone ever used a digital thermocouple for this purpose?

[DaveD]

Are you castign with a laddle or a bottom pour pot? ARe you casting with the laddle or sput tight against the sprue plate?

It looks like a couple of the close ups show some voids, this could be caused by not letting the air escape out of mould. Yes we have vent lines but you can still get air entrainment on some woulds, especially lee aluminum moulds if there are burrs. Try to cast some with the mould just a bit tilted and the spout a little distance away from sprue hole, as you fill gently tip the the mould upright. And watch the sprue cool.

Oh and all the other stuff above, especially starting with a good clean mould.

Manleyjt,

Yes, bottom pour Lee 4-20. I have about a 1/4"-3/8" gap from the spout to the sprue plate. I can see the silver stream as it pours.

[randyrat]

Sorry no typo, i dip for about 10 minutes so i know the mold is hot. I only dip one corner in the mold. If you run a cold mold your gonna do some punding on the sprue plate to break loose the first bullets, thats wear an tear on your molds. I still think you cut the sprue too early and also have a slightly dirty mold. Alright, there could be some contamination also but that would be my last guess.

[randyrat]

All the suggestions above and also you might try a fresh alloy, you may have some contaminated alloy that is causing you fill out/void/shrinking problems. Drain your pot, clean really good and try a fresh batch of known good well fluxed alloy to eliminate that variable. Good luck! I thought about it again and this would be a good idea to eliminate all posiblities.

[DaveD]

What kind of contamination would you guys suspect?:confused:

[IcerUSA]

From the pics I would say that the mould needs a very good cleaning job , and then another just to be sure . :) Read and reread the Leementing sticky , alot of good advice in there. Only other thing is experience will help , keep at it and you will get the hang of it .

Keith

[454PB]

My opinion---you have contamination in the mould. Do a very thorough cleaning and raise the temperature. If you need to reduce the mould temperature, use a wet cloth and just touch the bottom of the full mould to it for a second or two. I strive for a uniform light frosting on the boolit. Use a finishing nail or equivalent to clear the nozzle on your casting pot. Do this while it is flowing, you can catch the lead in an ingot mould, or just let it pile up on the aluminum base.

Thermometers are interesting and fun to play with, but not required. I cast tons of excellent boolits over 36 years without a thermometer.

[leftiye]

Look for other threads on lead contamination, inclusions, and boolit deformation from the mold. There have been a bunch lately, and several are current now.

[randyrat]

Are you dropping your "sprue-lings" back in your pot as you cast....Or it could be some Zink. I myself have never ran into a Zink problem so i can't advise with any intellegent input. You will have to be the judge. Start by doing all the simple things first and eliminate any possibilities. Clean your mold, flux your pot(saw dust and scrape the sides with a wooden stick) Let your sprue turn dull gray and sink in a little before you cut the sprue. Then if that fails change your alloy. Re flux the heck out of your pot if you have contamination.

[jonk]

Running hot in and of itself is no problem; it just takes longer for the bullet to set up. Personally if I had only that many rejects from a big pile I wouldn't be upset, but I know how it is - you want it just so! :-)

My best luck has been with one step of the Leementing process- namely cast a few bullets, leave them in the mold, drill the base, and screw a screw or square head bolt into the bullet. Then remove the bullet, and apply some wet kitchen/bath cleanser to it- the grittier the better. You can also use a fine grinding compound, but will still have to thoroughly wash. Then chuck the bullet into a drill and run on low speed in the cavity, and reverse direction. Finish with a good scrubbing with toothbrush and detergent- I like purple power. Let dry.

Suddenly molds that produced bullets much like those AND required a fair amount of beating to drop produce perfect bullets every time and drop as soon as the mold is opened.

[jcwit]

I use Lee molds & alot of the time they get to hot. Will have to try that idea of using a damp cloth, never thought of it to simple I guess. But I do have a question, what is the problem with frosted bullets? Do the shoot different or what? I've usually went ahead and used them but always wondered about this.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Believe it or not (check with Bass Ackwards - there may be No Rules that don't have exceptions), that might be a symptom of the fact that you're trying to make shiny boolits. Yes those are hot spots, but the rest of the boolit is freezing (instantly) upon contact (too cool), leaving only that area to shrink as it is the only part that remains unfrozen for any small period of time. If the whole boolit were lightly frosted, it would draw metal from the sprue puddle (if you were to make such, that is). Better fillout, smoother surface, more uniform weights. The only drawback is they're not shiny.

I am with leftiye. Looks like your trying to cast shiny boolits. I always get my best boolits from Lee molds when they just start coming out lightly frosted all over. I also use a Lee 4-20 and start out with it at 7 1/2 to 8. Once the mold gets hot enough the sprue gets noticeably easier to cut and the boolits start coming out lightly frosted. Then I turn the pot down to about 7 and adjust my casting pace to keep this level of frosting. If the boolits start coming out heavily frosted and very grainy looking it means the mold is too hot. I set it down on a wood block for a minute or two to cool before proceding.
Also, once the mold is up to temperature pour a generous puddle in the sprue hole and let it "frost over" and wait a few seconds before cutting it. You can actually see the sprue dimple as lead is drawn down by the boolit as it cools.

Jcwit, as you can tell I have no problems at all with frosty boolits. They shoot just as good as shiny ones.

[jcwit]

OMG Looks like I did something right without knowing it. Wife won't believe this. LOL

[454PB]

There's nothing wrong with frosted boolits, and the only reason to cool the mould with a damp cloth is to speed up the casting process.

[HORNET]

Did you get the mold warm and then smoke the cavities with a butane lighter? It can make a WORLD of difference with some molds. Some molds it doesn't seem to affect much. Even helps on steel blocks.

[DaveD]

ok Guys,

I took the steps you all recommended and got some more boolits cast this afternoon. The C432-265-RF are on the left & C432-300-RF are on the right:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/opmech/RDMolds2ndtry1.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/opmech/RDMolds2ndtry2.jpg

As you can see, I am making progress, the total rejects are on the desk above the two trays.
I got 146 300gr. and 110 265gr. cast this afternoon.

I am much happier with these results over the first effort. ;D

Thanks again guys for your input. ;)